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Gm's new Strategy
Thursday, May 19, 2005 11:11 AM
Only two of General Motors Corp.'s eight brands -- Chevrolet and Cadillac -- will remain full-line marques while the others will offer more limited product lines under a new strategy aimed at building sales, cutting costs and bolstering brand identity.

The move marks a shift away from GM's long-held philosophy that nearly every brand should offer a full array of cars, trucks and minivans, said Mark LaNeve, GM North America vice president of vehicle sales, service and marketing.

The automaker's goal is to clearly differentiate each of its brands and phase out cars and trucks that don't fit in with a brand or are too similar to other vehicles in GM's lineup.

"People say we have too many brands," LaNeve said in a recent interview. "We have too many brands if we try to do the same things with all the brands."

GM is revamping its sales and marketing strategy in an effort to reverse sliding sales and U.S. market share.

Analyst Jim Sanfilippo of AMCI Inc. in Bloomfield Hills said he believes the changes are necessary and could pay off for GM.

"It's like (GM Chairman and CEO) Rick Wagoner and LaNeve putting bricks and mortar back together while they're under fire," Sanfilippo said.

LaNeve said mass-market Chevrolet and premium Cadillac will be the two bookend brands, with each offering a broad product lineup.

In between, Buick, Pontiac, GMC, Saturn, Hummer and Saab will exist as "focus brands" with more limited portfolios.

That means, for example, GM could eliminate either the Buick Terraza or Pontiac Montana SV6 minivan -- which are similar to other GM minivans -- to concentrate on the brands' bread-and-butter vehicles.

Pontiac, GM's performance division, is dropping the Bonneville full-size car at the end of this model year and may see its product line further truncated.

GM is repositioning Saturn as a more upscale brand below Buick, leaving behind its past as a purveyor of plastic-clad compact cars.

"We've made this clear to the dealers," LaNeve said. "Chevy's got to compete heads-up with Ford and Toyota and all the mainstream parts of the market, and Cadillac needs to have everything it can to compete with BMW, Mercedes and Lexus. The other brands need to be tightly focused."

A key part of the strategy has been the ongoing transformation of Pontiac, Buick and GMC into a single sales channel where all three brands are sold at the same dealership. GM says the three brands complement each other and give customers myriad options.

About half of the GM dealers selling the three brands already have reconfigured their stores to sell all three, LaNeve said.

The effect, said David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research, is downsizing without eliminating brands as some analysts have predicted.

"What they're really doing is taking their divisions and shrinking their number in a de facto way," Cole said.

LaNeve said GM is also backing off big cash rebates that have helped elevate sales in recent years but undermined long-term brand equity.

The mantra now is "value" or "transaction pricing," where vehicles are priced closer to what consumers actually pay for the vehicle. That doesn't mean GM will abandon promotional deals that allow consumers to terminate leases early if they acquire another new GM model, or its current "Hot Button" contest in which GM is giving away 1,000 vehicles.

"We're going to be trying to hit much more compelling price points," LaNeve said. "We're clearly not going to go to the market as the incentive leader."

That sounds like a smart move to Detroit Cadillac dealer Doug Dalgleish Jr., who says "we need to try value pricing. We'll add more value to the vehicles."

Incentives such as cash rebates will be offered a more brand-by-brand and regional basis rather than sweeping one-size-fits-all programs.

A former collegiate middle linebacker, LaNeve has become a combination cheerleader and coach in urging GM's marketing team to come up with "big plays."

He recently bestowed the first "big play" football on Mark-Hans Richer, the Pontiac marketing director who came up with the idea of landing the Pontiac Solstice as the subject of a task on the reality show "The Apprentice."

"All of GM is being asked to think out of the box," Richer said.

Over the past month, LaNeve and Wagoner have met with about 2,500 dealers to discuss the new strategy.

"LaNeve is giving the dealers a clearer picture, telling them 'we know where we are, we know what we're doing and we know what to do,'" Sanfilippo said.

Dealers are weary and wary of the almost daily headlines detailing GM's financial challenges and speculation the company may be forced to drop an additional brand following the elimination of Oldsmobile.

GM lost $1.1 billion in the first quarter and has withdrawn earnings guidance for the rest of 2005.

Rochester Hills Pontiac-Buick dealer Russ Shelton said the combination of the new strategies and the arrival later this year of such products as the Pontiac Torrent SUV, the two-seat convertible Solstice and the Buick Lucerne signal that GM is in better shape than headlines indicate.

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[URL= http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosin.../A01-187008.htm] http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosin.../A01-187008.htm [/URL]

Re: Gm's new Strategy
Thursday, May 19, 2005 11:15 AM
Wow...........it took them this long to finally figure that out? At least it sounds like they're gonna try.


I need a sig
Re: Gm's new Strategy
Thursday, May 19, 2005 11:40 AM
finally glad to hear it.....once they re-focusing each brand on exactly what its inteded to be will produce better cars in the long run

chevy-budget minded cars, nice trucks
GMC-bigger trucks, new truck designs, cutting edge on suv's
pontiac-sports cars, sporty family sedans
caddilac-perfect blend of sport/luxery
saturn- aimed at taking import buyers, well built cars, only a few models
buick-bigger, rommier, full size cars..same luxery as caddilac minus the performance

is what each brand should live up too in my opinion



Re: Gm's new Strategy
Thursday, May 19, 2005 12:07 PM
I agree with 97cavy22.. Get rid of the stupid Pontiac Minivan.. Make a new Zeta platform Pontiac sports car.

The only thing I don't agree is on is ditching the saturn polymer panels..




Dark blue 2002 Z24, 2.4 Ltr.
Re: Gm's new Strategy
Thursday, May 19, 2005 12:16 PM
i think GM's problem is, they only do enough to keep you interested in a car. They dont try and offer a great car and a great price. I mean the Cobalt SS S/C is a perfect example of this. Its supposed to compete with the SRT4. 205HP wow way to go GM. Wit a 24,000 dollar price tag. Ugh. That doesnt compete, it just barely hangs in there with the SRT4. Or the Silverado SS, ohh 345 HP with REAR DRUMS! The car has the badge SS, but it doesnt even have 4 wheel disc brakes. Drums just scream performance, thats why cavaliers have them. Im assuming they were trying to make a truck to compete with the lightning and SRT10, but once again they are just barely there. The only place GM does good performance wise is the mid size sports car area. The GTO and Vette. But while Ford remade is mustang, GM dropped the Camaro. Also GM really isnt taking a jump on the current AWD phase. Ford released the 500 with an AWD package. Its a really nice look car. But GM has nothing to combat that.

I dont think GM knows why its losing market shares. I think its because everyone else is offering more for less, while GM is offering less for more.


2006 Black Cobalt SS Supercharged G85
13.91@102.77
Re: Gm's new Strategy
Friday, May 20, 2005 9:02 AM
EcotecSunfire wrote:Wow...........it took them this long to finally figure that out? At least it sounds like they're gonna try.


it took them so long because it had worked for so long







Re: Gm's new Strategy
Friday, May 20, 2005 9:05 AM
-JaysonZ24- wrote:i think GM's problem is, they only do enough to keep you interested in a car. They dont try and offer a great car and a great price. I mean the Cobalt SS S/C is a perfect example of this. Its supposed to compete with the SRT4. 205HP wow way to go GM. Wit a 24,000 dollar price tag. Ugh. That doesnt compete, it just barely hangs in there with the SRT4. Or the Silverado SS, ohh 345 HP with REAR DRUMS! The car has the badge SS, but it doesnt even have 4 wheel disc brakes. Drums just scream performance, thats why cavaliers have them. Im assuming they were trying to make a truck to compete with the lightning and SRT10, but once again they are just barely there. The only place GM does good performance wise is the mid size sports car area. The GTO and Vette. But while Ford remade is mustang, GM dropped the Camaro. Also GM really isnt taking a jump on the current AWD phase. Ford released the 500 with an AWD package. Its a really nice look car. But GM has nothing to combat that.

I dont think GM knows why its losing market shares. I think its because everyone else is offering more for less, while GM is offering less for more.


drums may not scream performance but, they brake pretty darn good

the 03 cavalier had a better braking distance than the 03 neon r/t which had all rotors

combat the ford 500?
the slow pos? why would you want to?

and the gto was basically a temp camaro replacement



Re: Gm's new Strategy
Friday, May 20, 2005 9:52 AM
Detroit News wrote:Only two of General Motors Corp.'s eight brands -- Chevrolet and Cadillac -- will remain full-line marques while the others will offer more limited product lines under a new strategy aimed at building sales, cutting costs and bolstering brand identity.

The move marks a shift away from GM's long-held philosophy that nearly every brand should offer a full array of cars, trucks and minivans, said Mark LaNeve, GM North America vice president of vehicle sales, service and marketing.


Geez, ya think they would have learned this back in the '80's when all of the brands had all of the SAME FREAKIN' CARS!

Detroit News wrote:The automaker's goal is to clearly differentiate each of its brands and phase out cars and trucks that don't fit in with a brand or are too similar to other vehicles in GM's lineup.

"People say we have too many brands," LaNeve said in a recent interview. "We have too many brands if we try to do the same things with all the brands."

GM is revamping its sales and marketing strategy in an effort to reverse sliding sales and U.S. market share.

Analyst Jim Sanfilippo of AMCI Inc. in Bloomfield Hills said he believes the changes are necessary and could pay off for GM.

"It's like (GM Chairman and CEO) Rick Wagoner and LaNeve putting bricks and mortar back together while they're under fire," Sanfilippo said.

LaNeve said mass-market Chevrolet and premium Cadillac will be the two bookend brands, with each offering a broad product lineup.

In between, Buick, Pontiac, GMC, Saturn, Hummer and Saab will exist as "focus brands" with more limited portfolios.

That means, for example, GM could eliminate either the Buick Terraza or Pontiac Montana SV6 minivan -- which are similar to other GM minivans -- to concentrate on the brands' bread-and-butter vehicles.


So far, so good.

Detroit News wrote:Pontiac, GM's performance division, is dropping the Bonneville full-size car at the end of this model year and may see its product line further truncated.


Wait, what about the G8? Wasn't that supposed to replace the Bonne?

Detroit News wrote:GM is repositioning Saturn as a more upscale brand below Buick, leaving behind its past as a purveyor of plastic-clad compact cars.


OK, this is where I get off the bandwagon. If GM intends to put Saturn between Pontiac and Buick where Oldsmobile was, how does this make sense? If Oldsmobile Division couldn't cut it, especially considering it's 107 year history, groundbreaking technological advances throughout GM's history and having one of the all-time best selling vehicles EVER produced (Cutlass), how in the h*ll is Saturn going to do it?

I believe Saturn needs to be the next division to be pruned. Saturn has yet to make GM a profit. If GM can axe Oldsmobile on economic grounds, it sure can kill Saturn, too. For example, why does the new Solstice need competition from the Saturn Sky? What good does that do? What do you get different in the Sky than you will from the Solstice? Why repeat the mistakes of the 80's all over again?

Detroit News wrote:"We've made this clear to the dealers," LaNeve said. "Chevy's got to compete heads-up with Ford and Toyota and all the mainstream parts of the market, and Cadillac needs to have everything it can to compete with BMW, Mercedes and Lexus. The other brands need to be tightly focused."


Many of dealer are still trying to figure out customer service. This is where I think GM could learn something from Honda. But, technically, each of the dealers are 'franchisees', so GM's influence will be limited.

Detroit News wrote:A key part of the strategy has been the ongoing transformation of Pontiac, Buick and GMC into a single sales channel where all three brands are sold at the same dealership. GM says the three brands complement each other and give customers myriad options.

About half of the GM dealers selling the three brands already have reconfigured their stores to sell all three, LaNeve said.

The effect, said David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research, is downsizing without eliminating brands as some analysts have predicted.

"What they're really doing is taking their divisions and shrinking their number in a de facto way," Cole said.


Note: They did NOT say this would keep them from killing off those divisions.

Detroit News wrote: LaNeve said GM is also backing off big cash rebates that have helped elevate sales in recent years but undermined long-term brand equity.

The mantra now is "value" or "transaction pricing," where vehicles are priced closer to what consumers actually pay for the vehicle. That doesn't mean GM will abandon promotional deals that allow consumers to terminate leases early if they acquire another new GM model, or its current "Hot Button" contest in which GM is giving away 1,000 vehicles.

"We're going to be trying to hit much more compelling price points," LaNeve said. "We're clearly not going to go to the market as the incentive leader."


Well, it's about time that happened. A good rational move.

Detroit News wrote:"All of GM is being asked to think out of the box," Richer said.


Here's a clue GM. Talk to the folks who use your product. We have plenty to say. And, not all of it is negative either. Troll these and other message boards. I'm sure there's plenty to learn about...

(I deleted the rest of the quote for space)


George (geozinger)
'95 Sunfire GT-my second Pontiac from Hell!
'97 Cavy Beater-still running like a champ!
'04 Sunfire - my kid's car, but I get the bills...
'09 Pontiac G6 - Sport Package 1


Re: Gm's new Strategy
Friday, May 20, 2005 10:17 AM
I'm not sure about the US, but here in Canada, Saturn is making a profit this year.. I know in my area i'm seeing a lot more Ion's and Vue's on the road.. Want a division to axe? Why not look at Buick.. Nobody buys those cars anymore!




Dark blue 2002 Z24, 2.4 Ltr.
Re: Gm's new Strategy
Friday, May 20, 2005 10:55 AM
I did a quick check on ask.com, I could not find a direct reference to Saturn not making a profit. This link gives second-hand confirmation, http://www.sunherald.com/mld/dfw/classifieds/automotive/6404135.htm but nothing first hand. So, I will back off of that statement.

Either way, it still does not make sense to position Saturn in the same place as Oldsmobile, when the idea is to reduce the number of brands.

You could say that Oldsmobile had un-appealing product, but I don't think that Saturn is knocking them dead with the current line up.

You have your loyal Saturn-ites, but of the ones I know personally, they were already buying GM vehicles. I don't know that Saturn attracts Honda owners.

I bet folks who are shopping downmarket are probably shopping Hyundai now, anyway. They have the killer warranty, which is what attracts a lot of people to their showrooms.




George (geozinger)
'95 Sunfire GT-my second Pontiac from Hell!
'97 Cavy Beater-still running like a champ!
'04 Sunfire - my kid's car, but I get the bills...
'09 Pontiac G6 - Sport Package 1


Re: Gm's new Strategy
Friday, May 20, 2005 1:59 PM
one word

opel




Re: Gm's new Strategy
Saturday, May 21, 2005 6:53 AM
As for 205whp. There are dyno numbers that say otherwise. GM has a long history of under-rating there engines. Also, every magazine and car report I have seen has voted the Cobalt SS S/C as a better all around car than the SRT-4. It might not be as fast but it's not far behind. Just like car and driver said, the Evo, even with how fast it is, it still feels like a Lancer on the inside. The SRT-4, same thing, still feels like a Neon. Speed is not everything to the average car buyer.

As for the Silverado SS. Rear drums. I'm not too upset about that. Discs would have been nice but drums arn't making it any slower. This truck was placed not to compete head to head to the SRT-10 Ram. The Lightning is not being produced right now, the SRT-10 Ram is too expensive and get's very crappy MPG. The Silverado SS was placed to get buyers that like fast trucks but also don't want to brake the bank at the gas pumps.

As for the lineups...

Chevy = Economical, Cheap, Fleet Use, everyday cars.
Ford, Toyota, Dodge
Pontaic = Sporty, Quick, Fun
Mercury, Scion, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Acura, Mazda
Saturn = Upscale, compact - midsize lineup
Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi
Buick = Upscale, midsize - full size lineup
Lexus, Acura, Infinity
GMC = Premium Truck lineup
Toyota, Dodge, Ford, Nissan
Cadillac = Premium Car lineup
BMW, M/B, Lexus

IMHO...



Re: Gm's new Strategy
Saturday, May 21, 2005 3:59 PM
When I think of Saturn, I think of that commercial that was on TV about 5 years ago with the college students where the pizza guy comes to the dorm room and the kid asks his roommates "Did anyone order a Pizza?" and then another delivery guy comes to the door... "Did anyone order a Saturn?".

Pontiac is dropping the Bonneville and Sunfire and redefining itself by GTO and Solstice. I think they are on the right track. Pontiac doesn't need a sunfire replacement. Saturn would compliment Pontiac well as an "entry level performance" brand with the ION. Saturn should go for the "my first car" market... I think it's a mistake to try to raise Saturn up to an Oldsmobile replacement. I think it's a better idea to aim in the opposite direction and offer cars with as much performance as a sub-15grand price tag will allow and position Saturn in the same ball park as Aveo/Cavalier/Sunfire territory as a Scion competitor alongside Chevy's Aveo and Cobalt. Re-badge some Opel cars and market them as fuel efficient super-warranty reliable transportation you'd want to buy your kids or commute to work in.

If Saturn goes the way they are planning to... I don't see how they will differentiate the brand. Sky is in the same market as Solstice, ION is in the same market as Cobalt... the problem is that the Chevy and Pontiac nameplates carry more weight so GM is only competing with itself and Saturn will only come up on the short end if they don't decide to offer something unique.

When GM starts offering hybrid and alternative fuel vehicles, I see Saturn as the natural choice to grow as GM's "green" nameplate. If GM had a Prius or Insight, it should certainly be a Saturn... and I think Saturn would be pulling in more sales if they had a cheap hybrid commuter car in the lineup right now.


Re: Gm's new Strategy
Sunday, May 22, 2005 2:00 PM
James Romeo wrote: Saturn should go for the "my first car" market... I think it's a mistake to try to raise Saturn up to an Oldsmobile replacement. I think it's a better idea to aim in the opposite direction and offer cars with as much performance as a sub-15grand price tag will allow and position Saturn in the same ball park as Aveo/Cavalier/Sunfire territory as a Scion competitor alongside Chevy's Aveo and Cobalt. Re-badge some Opel cars and market them as fuel efficient super-warranty reliable transportation you'd want to buy your kids or commute to work in.

If Saturn goes the way they are planning to... I don't see how they will differentiate the brand. Sky is in the same market as Solstice, ION is in the same market as Cobalt... the problem is that the Chevy and Pontiac nameplates carry more weight so GM is only competing with itself and Saturn will only come up on the short end if they don't decide to offer something unique.

When GM starts offering hybrid and alternative fuel vehicles, I see Saturn as the natural choice to grow as GM's "green" nameplate. If GM had a Prius or Insight, it should certainly be a Saturn... and I think Saturn would be pulling in more sales if they had a cheap hybrid commuter car in the lineup right now.


Couldn't agree any more, Scions in many areas are on waiting lists...they can't make them fast enough. if GM made Saturn into a Scion killer...it would totally work. and if GM could build these Saturn Scion killers and offer them with a 10 year/100,000mile warranty they may actually start to make money. i maena supposedly Hyundai/Kia/ and Suzuki suck, and the majority of people make the uber-ignorant comments that those cars are junk. But tell me this then, if GM cars are SO MUCH better than a Suzuki or Hyundai.....why don't they stand behind their product and offer the same warranty deal?

that's why the big 3 are failing, smaller carmakers are beating them in quality, price, standard features, reliability and warranties. Saturn should be GM's first step into a new automotive world....NOT another Oldsmobile.



"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net

Re: Gm's new Strategy
Monday, May 23, 2005 7:57 AM
JAMMIT wrote:
James Romeo wrote: Saturn should go for the "my first car" market... I think it's a mistake to try to raise Saturn up to an Oldsmobile replacement. I think it's a better idea to aim in the opposite direction and offer cars with as much performance as a sub-15grand price tag will allow and position Saturn in the same ball park as Aveo/Cavalier/Sunfire territory as a Scion competitor alongside Chevy's Aveo and Cobalt. Re-badge some Opel cars and market them as fuel efficient super-warranty reliable transportation you'd want to buy your kids or commute to work in.

If Saturn goes the way they are planning to... I don't see how they will differentiate the brand. Sky is in the same market as Solstice, ION is in the same market as Cobalt... the problem is that the Chevy and Pontiac nameplates carry more weight so GM is only competing with itself and Saturn will only come up on the short end if they don't decide to offer something unique.

When GM starts offering hybrid and alternative fuel vehicles, I see Saturn as the natural choice to grow as GM's "green" nameplate. If GM had a Prius or Insight, it should certainly be a Saturn... and I think Saturn would be pulling in more sales if they had a cheap hybrid commuter car in the lineup right now.


Couldn't agree any more, Scions in many areas are on waiting lists...they can't make them fast enough. if GM made Saturn into a Scion killer...it would totally work. and if GM could build these Saturn Scion killers and offer them with a 10 year/100,000mile warranty they may actually start to make money. i maena supposedly Hyundai/Kia/ and Suzuki suck, and the majority of people make the uber-ignorant comments that those cars are junk. But tell me this then, if GM cars are SO MUCH better than a Suzuki or Hyundai.....why don't they stand behind their product and offer the same warranty deal?

that's why the big 3 are failing, smaller carmakers are beating them in quality, price, standard features, reliability and warranties. Saturn should be GM's first step into a new automotive world....NOT another Oldsmobile.


To address something James Romeo pointed out... Back when GM was pushing electric cars as the future, they used to to show the EV-1 on the Saturn stands, like they were implying that Saturns would be the 'green' choice. I don't know what became of that line of thinking, it wasn't a bad idea. But if GM insists upon putting Saturn up against Chevy and Pontiac, all three lose. There's no real differentiation. Saturn either needs to develop a truly unique mission in it's GM life or be axed. If they want to develop it as a Scion killer, they had better hurry up. It can't continue to compete against the other lower two rungs of the GM ladder. That makes no sense.

JAMMIT has hit the nail on the head. GM should offer a 10 yr-100,000 mile warranty. Think back 10-12 years ago when VW USA was selling like 12,000 cars a year in the US- what did they do to get the customers back? They had a 10 yr-100,000 mile warranty. How did Kia and Hyundai increase their sales? Same thing. AFAIK their sales really didn't take off until they started pushing the warranty.

It's pretty bad when you go shopping for a cheap Korean car, you can go to Chevy dealer to look at Aveo's and go to Kia dealer to look at Rio's and get a better warranty from the Kia dealer for roughly the same money. What would you do? Yes, I'm aware that GM has upped the warranty for the Aveo, but really, shouldn't it be across the board? Why should a 10K Aveo have a better warranty than a $20k Pontiac?



George (geozinger)
'95 Sunfire GT-my second Pontiac from Hell!
'97 Cavy Beater-still running like a champ!
'04 Sunfire - my kid's car, but I get the bills...
'09 Pontiac G6 - Sport Package 1


Re: Gm's new Strategy
Monday, May 23, 2005 8:27 AM
I agree about the warranty arguement 100% I was glad to see that when the Cobalt came out this year they included a 5 year 60,000 mile warranty, it's a step int he right direction. I think that if they offered these warranties with all the GM vehicles we wouldn't see such a drastic loss in value as soon as they leave the lot either. Protection for 5 or 10 years means alot to the used car market.
Although you can't forget about the Mitsubishi bomb....
They've been offering a 7 year 70,000 mile warranty, but since their service department sucks so bad, it doesn't mean anything.

What I'm trying to say is it takes more than just slapping a longer warranty on the car. GM service centers need to do a better job being customer friendly and fixing the cars completely and more effeciently for the warranty to help GM at all.

And as for Saturn replacing oldsmobile, I don't think that's a very good idea either, we already have Buick and Cadillac for the high end buyers, Saturn is just creating more competition for GM. As for making Saturn a unique company.... It always has been, with the exception of the most recent years Saturn has not shared platforms with GM at all. Back when all they made were the SC2 and SL2, those were based off of "saturn only platforms". Correct me if I'm wrong.

Other than the issue of where to put Saturn, I think the new plan is a good idea, cookie cutter cars are a mistake of the past that need to be ended last week sometime. GM needs to create more variety between it's brands, not just different nameplates. As for a sunfire replacement, from my understanding, that's the Vibe.

Overall, at least GM recognizes the problem and is working towards fixing it, lets just hope they do it right. I would like to see more cars with loads of horsepower, tons of standard options, laid out interiors, and long ass warranties....



Re: Gm's new Strategy
Monday, May 23, 2005 12:34 PM
FWIW, I think the dealers are trying harder.

My wife has an Aztek, and at 35000 miles (just turned over yesterday) I noticed we were getting the famous GM minivan wheel bearing noise. Took it to the Pontiac dealer we bought from, and they inspected the car and found that the power steering rack was leaking in addition to the passenger front wheel bearing going bad. They said that the car will be done by end of day today, meaning end of business day (5PM). It's not 5 yet, so I don't know if they'll make it. They told us to come back after 500 miles and have the wheel bearings re-inspected due to the fact we're so close to the end of the 3/36 factory warranty.

I can remember a day when they would only work on the one item and have you come back another day for the other items. If the car is not finished by EOD, they promised us a rental car until the Aztek is done. They wanted my concerns about the other bearing noted on the paperwork, so that if the driver's side bearing goes bad once it's out of warranty, then I will have some backup in regards to when I noticed a problem. The dealer service dept. said they would not leave us out in the cold, if that were to happen. I've not had good experiences in the past, time will tell on this situation.

I'll keep you guys informed.



George (geozinger)
'95 Sunfire GT-my second Pontiac from Hell!
'97 Cavy Beater-still running like a champ!
'04 Sunfire - my kid's car, but I get the bills...
'09 Pontiac G6 - Sport Package 1


Re: Gm's new Strategy
Monday, May 23, 2005 1:16 PM
I by no means were complaining about GM service. I was just simply stating the just having a longer warranty does nothing unles syou have a good service department to back it up. I have a friend that has an 03 Eclipse GTS, it has every option available except and automatic transmission. He has had more problems with Mitsubishi's warranty than anyone would want to experience, from shotty work, to crappy parts, to them refusing to provide him with a car to drive while his is being worked on (for 4 days). In my eyes if I bought a $28k car and it needed worked on, they better provide me with something to drive, even if it's a base model Lancer.

My chevy dealership hasn't ever given me a hard time with warranty work. In fact they fixed my seat at 36,500 miles because the service manager told me he didn't think it happened in the last 500 miles. That's good service.





Re: Gm's new Strategy
Tuesday, May 24, 2005 10:22 AM
Well, the Pontiac garage got it done on time, everything looks good and clean. Hopefully this will be the end of the major problems with the Aztek. But I'm still thinking about dropping the $$'s for a GMPP warranty anyway. Keeps the Mrs. happy, ya know?

jkhd03cav, I may have misunderstood your post about the dealers and warranties. But your bud's problems with the Mitsu dealer is just unbelievable. It reminds me of the bad old days when dealers just didn't give a f**k. That's what it was like to deal with domestic dealers about 15-20 yrs ago.

I bought a 5.0 Mustang in the mid-80's at my local Ford dealer. I moved about 15 miles down the road shortly after buying the car. I went to another Ford dealer (who was closer, but still near my original dealer) who told me since I didn't buy the car there, they did not have to do warranty work on it! What bullsh*t! Ford has since changed the policy, but I haven't bought another new Ford product since.

With my Chevys and Pontiacs the dealers have been super nice. But a 100K mi warranty would keep my confidence level high...



George (geozinger)
'95 Sunfire GT-my second Pontiac from Hell!
'97 Cavy Beater-still running like a champ!
'04 Sunfire - my kid's car, but I get the bills...
'09 Pontiac G6 - Sport Package 1


Re: Gm's new Strategy
Tuesday, May 24, 2005 10:49 AM
I agree, We need to combine the good service practices of GM and the length of warranties of Hyandia and Kia. Once we do that, we will be unbeatable.



Re: Gm's new Strategy
Tuesday, May 24, 2005 11:47 AM
I think the dealerships are the ones to blame for the shoddy warrenty work, not GM. At 18000 miles, I blew the 2nd gear synchro out of my tranny. They gave me a Buick Le Sabre to drive while my car was being fixed. After 28 days, the part still hadn't arrived so they threw in a whole new tranny. I had a Le Sabre for just shy of a month at no cost to me.

On the other side, my friends Hyundai broke down with 32000 miles, they said he needed a new motor at his cost due to the fact that he didn't bring his car to them for oil changes and regular maintenance. Great warrenty. Reminds me of the movie Tommyboy "If ya want me to take a !@#$ in a box and mark it guarenteed I can do that, I got alot of spare time".


2000 Z

Re: Gm's new Strategy
Tuesday, May 24, 2005 6:25 PM
I don't want to vent here, but this I have to comment on.

Quote:

OK, this is where I get off the bandwagon. If GM intends to put Saturn between Pontiac and Buick where Oldsmobile was, how does this make sense? If Oldsmobile Division couldn't cut it, especially considering it's 107 year history, groundbreaking technological advances throughout GM's history and having one of the all-time best selling vehicles EVER produced (Cutlass), how in the h*ll is Saturn going to do it?


Geo,
I could not agree more. Personally they should cut Saturn right now. Bring back the Oldsmobile. Why? Oldest American car nameplate thats why. It's Nostalgic. Saturn has been with us for only 14 years. Granted, up untill 2001-2002 Saturn was doing o.k., best year was 1995 for them.
If you remember, in the 80's Saturn always had a resemblence to Oldsmobile in design and technology (Saturn S-series in the 80's was initially a J-body too ), as if it was a baby Olds. But now Saturn is just another generic GM, so why have it?
Also very true, Olds always stood for ground-breaking products for the masses.
I think today Oldsmobile should be revived and bring a few Opels like Omega, Vectra Zafira.

If GM was smart and keep Saturn, they would position Saturn for the Gen-X-Y people, like Scion is doing. And yes keep those polimer panels too. Remember, that is how Saturn started initially; Budget-minded people.




>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----

Re: Gm's new Strategy
Tuesday, May 24, 2005 7:02 PM
lets hope this realignment doesnt all go bust when they try to get the hydrogen cars onto the market, thats allot more scary proposition then car realignment. that can always be changed, dumping all your eggs into hydrogen may be the biggest hurt for them if it doesnt pan out.


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Re: Gm's new Strategy
Wednesday, May 25, 2005 11:25 AM
Mr Goodwrench,

Looks like we're on the same page. I really wouldn't want to bring back Oldsmobile for nostalgia's sake only, but let them be the groundbreakers of GM again. That was their role before, let them have at it again.

I was a big fan of the last (2001-2004) V8 Aurora. I didn't own one myself, but knew folks who had them and would let me drive them. They were friggin' SWEET! IMHO a much better car than the Chrysler 300M (FWD) or many of the contemporary Lexus (Lexi?) and Acuras.

I could see Oldsmobile as a higher end (not Buick-style) technologically advanced division. I see them releasing the first hybrid large cars, the first Hy-Wire cars, AWD models of current platforms for example. No SUV's, no minivans this time, just advanced uplevel cars. Let Buick handle the 'traditional' bankers cars, Pontiac becomes the BMW-division of GM, with Chevy and Cadillac handling the very top and bottom ends, domestically and worldwide.

Oh sorry, got on my soapbox again...




George (geozinger)
'95 Sunfire GT-my second Pontiac from Hell!
'97 Cavy Beater-still running like a champ!
'04 Sunfire - my kid's car, but I get the bills...
'09 Pontiac G6 - Sport Package 1


Re: Gm's new Strategy
Wednesday, May 25, 2005 2:39 PM
geo,

I agree with everything except pontiac competing with BMW.

I think that Cadillac is in a better position to compete with BMW, and Pontiac needs to focus on sports cars like was posted above. I would love to see GTP or GXP versions of all the Pontiacs all with crazy horsepower.

That's what GM needs to do with Pontiac.



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