Now I know that I can raise the compression of my 2.2 by using a thinner head gasket, and I heard if you are going to do this is it only right to get better than stock head bolts.(heard it from a honda nut).

What would be the result of doing this?

Has anyone done this with positive results?

And, all I have are iridum plugs, and a C.A.I. Is it worth the $200?

I am no pro it would be great if notec or Madjack go in on this but it can be worth it more if you add it with other mods like a built head or a port and polish. After that since you are changing your compression you will eventually want to tune it.

I have a bunch of plans like this for my Ln2. Sorry if it didn't answer your question about the bolt i figure if you aren't doing much more to make power the oem kind bolts would probably be fine.


The proper way of using the word seen. It is not I seen it that would be I saw it. He has seen the car is the right way to use the word. English class is Cool. By the way thats my sig

It won't raise your compression much. However, there are added benefits from reducing your quench distance, which inceases thermal efficiency. Still, I don't think it's worth the effort if you're not going to do anything else, especially since it effectively increases the relative pushrod length, so you will also need adjustable rockers, which also requires new rocker studs. As M-1 said, wait until you also have a ported head to put on, or, until you blow a headgasket and actually NEED to get in there.




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Tru Tru.

when i changed my spark plugs they had a little bit of white residue on them. They also had 97 000 kms on them. So i figured i am burning a slight bit of coolant. maybe a head gasket fix?

I'm still not sure, but i might just go into the head and take a look myself.

Just for fun i was wondering if i should attempt to change the head gasket, because i'm sure i have beat it up enough ( i drive pretty hard, cause its soo stock). But if that means getting new rockers then forget it.

Not worth it yet, you're both right.

Any ideas on fix for white residue? (besides head gasket of course!)

The only thing I can think of the white deposits being is excessive lead. But, since they don't make leaded fuel available foer general use to the public anymore...

Unless you run high temps (Greater than normal operating temps) for long periods, or possibly been neglecting the coolant maintanance, I doubt you'll need a new head gasket. I've had at least 200,000mi on a old, carbureted 4-cyl with the factory gasket. And it didn't fail until I really pushed it hard one hot summer day on the highway, for a long period. Oddly, it didn't really show signs of failure until I drove my friend home that night. About 70% of the way there (He lived way 'cross town) it finally gave... dramatically! From inside the car, you could here the coolant (Which was straight water at that moment) literally making gurgling pulsing sounds from boiling so hot. Thank goodness we were right next to a fuel station entrance when it happened.

I changed the gasket, and it was okay... But it never performed as strongly again. Guess I warped the block a touch.


Go beyond the "bolt-on".

well i did a little more research about our stock plugs, and wat i've heard accross the board is that a little bit of white residue is not a bad thing on a 100 000km spark plug. It's acutlly normal! The GM Stealership told me i'm wasting my time with the iridiums. i told them to shove it!

As far as the head gasket goes, i was pretty sure that it was fine, but thanks for confirming that for me. Also i've done my coolant flush and my car never goes into the danger zone with temp. It has always been perfect.

So i guess i have nothing to worry about, but it was still fun changing the plugs, and the car DOES sound a little better on iridiums.

The biggest difference I can hear is when the rpm's are dropping. My exhaust pops less, and the engine has a more uniform sound to it, (if that makes sense)

HOlla back if you can think of any other services i shold do now that i hit the 100 000km mark. I've done: coolant
plugs
all filters(including fuel)
all fluids

anything else in the engine i should do?

I've had best luck with E3's myself. As for the sound you hear as it's revvin'-down... if you're talking about when you lift fully... the ECM automatically cuts fuel in that situation, resulting in lower emissions. If you have it popin' out the exhaust as it's droppin' revs, either it's dumping too much fuel into the cylinders at that moment, or you might have too large of exhaust (Yeah, I know... Impossible, right? Wrong!) and it's suckin' air in between the pulses, mixing it with any unburned fuel & resulting in a mini-backfire or "snap" inside the pipe.

Oh yeah... There is one thing you could do when you hit the century mark: Replace the timing chain & tensioner/guide set. For some reason, these fail around 100,000mi. At least in the S-truck applications of this engine (Again, odd). And when you do, use the GM replacement pieces. The Cloyes set from Autozone is unreliable. And a source whom spoke-up on another car forum, that works with those in the industry, stated that it's the same company that makes even cheaper (And of less quality) sets for many other brands.They just use the same manufactured unit for them all.

The GM pieces are made by a different company, and are inargueably the best. I speak this from experience, as I've installed a Cloyes on one LN2'd S-truck of mine & a GM set on the other. The GM set been good as gold since it was installed. But the Cloyes set from my local Autozone keeps having the spoken-of relaxing of the tensioner when the engine cools, then resetting of it when it sees hot oil after cold start-up. This results in a need for extensive cranking of the engine to insure that the moment it sees ignition (Cold) that it don't backfire through the intake, bringing the rotation to a halt & requiring even more extensive cranking to get it started. The GM piece doesn't do that. Crazy, I know...


Go beyond the "bolt-on".

Thanks for the great info, i will definatly look into changing my chain and tensioner.

I've changed chains on honda's before, and it was easy, but only because the engine was on a stand. Do you have to remove the engine to do this on my 05 sunfire? or can you change it in car? And u think i can do it at home? (no air compressor)

Also, i have a stock exhaust still, so i know it's not too big, and the popping is still there, but barely. it's only evident when i rev past 5500, and it's louder in neutral (i guess cause the rpm's can drop faster?)when the engine has little or no load. Maybe a small exhaust leak?

Do you think increasing my exhaust diameter will dum the popping down? or make it worse? I want to get a performance exhaust eventually, but i want my engine to be at above-average health before i start bolting on goodies.

Any suggestions on exhaust diameter? I want to make a custom one myself.

Mo Joe wrote:Thanks for the great info, i will definatly look into changing my chain and tensioner.

I've changed chains on honda's before, and it was easy, but only because the engine was on a stand. Do you have to remove the engine to do this on my 05 sunfire? or can you change it in car? And u think i can do it at home? (no air compressor)

I did mine with the engine in the car, but I did take off the upper motor mount to drop the engine down. Also, remove the belt tensioner so that the timing cover will go back on, and unbolt the power sttering pump to make life easier. I didn't need my air compressor, but you will need a good harmonic balancer puller.




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Mo Joe wrote:Thanks for the great info, i will definatly look into changing my chain and tensioner.

I've changed chains on honda's before, and it was easy, but only because the engine was on a stand. Do you have to remove the engine to do this on my 05 sunfire? or can you change it in car? And u think i can do it at home? (no air compressor)

Also, i have a stock exhaust still, so i know it's not too big, and the popping is still there, but barely. it's only evident when i rev past 5500, and it's louder in neutral (i guess cause the rpm's can drop faster?)when the engine has little or no load. Maybe a small exhaust leak?

Do you think increasing my exhaust diameter will dum the popping down? or make it worse? I want to get a performance exhaust eventually, but i want my engine to be at above-average health before i start bolting on goodies.

Any suggestions on exhaust diameter? I want to make a custom one myself.

If it's when it's been pushed past 5500... and it's with a stock cam... Then I say you have nothing to worry about. As for a larger exhaust, there are two (maybe three) schools of thought on this:

1.) Run the biggest you can fit (I wouldn't recommend that).

2.) Run what everybody in general runs (Workable... But not perfect).

3.) Follow David Vizard's guidelines as to choosing pipe size & mufflers based upon flow ratings in contrast to what the engine's realistically estimated output is: 1hp = 2.2cfm@10in.hg. (The best of all for going with a truly customized system. And the one I follow.)

Of course... there is a fourth rule: Get whatever aftermarket piece you like best. Many seem to go this way, and it's nothing new. In fact, I'd say it's been followed since the hey-day of rodding after WWII. But still... If you are a numbers guy, and being exact is your thing... You can't go wrong by applying the third method to to the fourth in making you decision.


Go beyond the "bolt-on".

Nickelin Dimer wrote:1hp = 2.2cfm@10in.hg. (The best of all for going with a truly customized system. And the one I follow.)

Being a numbers guy myself, I'd like to know what this is based off of. There are way too many variables to just throw out a value like that...




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David Vizard, resident tech-guy for Popular Hot-Rodding & writer of "Performance With Economy" (<-Good reading... I recommend it!), has done much research in this area (Guess that's why he was turned to in designing the Flowmaster muffler). He philosphied that since we choose what size carb (He was writing this while keeping in mind many carbureted-fueled builders would read it) based upon flow-rating instead of bore size, that it made sense that exhaust pipe selection should be dictated by the same rules. Since carbs are flow-rated at 10.5in.hg, well...

As for the 2.2cfm... He did extensive dyno research (Forgive me if a forget a detail here... I misplaced the article) with a full-length system and found that max potential HP output for an engine occured when using pieces that flowed 2.2cfm@10.5in.hg. for every 1hp output. After that, there was no realistic gain with using a size of pipe or muffler that flowed more.

I have spoken of this before, in another thread. But since most reading this one may never see that one, I'll tell you the reason behind Mr. Vizard's writing of forementioned article & why I'm sharing notes I've taken from it here:

Too many have wasted their money upon parts & systems to improve the performance of their car, only to find (eventually) that they've wasted their money on installing something that not only may hurt their car's performance, but also make it an intolerable noise-maker certain to get ticketed. The concept behind it is to share with independant street-driven car-building hobbists (Like us!) guidelines to apply to the design & parts selection in making a system that permits maximum HP production, while maintaining a street-legal noise level.

Oh, and as for how I said "size of pipe or muffler"... Just because you found a muffler with an I/O size of so large that is best for your app, it doesn't mean the entire system need be that big. This generalization of system size results in what hurts performance. Mainly during low-end operation. Keep in mind that the factory system was sized as it was to aid in scavenging the exhaust gases to help produce best low-end torque while operating at part-throttle, and result in best mileage while cruising.

Radical increases from factory-stock on a otherwise stock engine (No internal work) actually hurt these points, so going from 1-7/8" to 3" for the full length is detremental. Not to mention how it turns the exhaust into a echo-chamber, making however the pulses sounded before even louder & less pleasant to hear. The solution? Choose the pipe size upon what the engine's potentail HP output will be (Realistically!), and the muffler the samen way. If the size of the design & manufacturer of the muffler you choose don't flow enough, go with the same model but a larger size I/O & use reducers to install it. They're available at any truck supply store. And don't go making the tailpipe after the muffler the same size as the muffler's outlet, or you'll regret it (Remember what I just said about "echo chamber"? That's why!).


Go beyond the "bolt-on".

Nickelin Dimer wrote:The only thing I can think of the white deposits being is excessive lead. But, since they don't make leaded fuel available foer general use to the public anymore...

Unless you run high temps (Greater than normal operating temps) for long periods, or possibly been neglecting the coolant maintanance, I doubt you'll need a new head gasket. I've had at least 200,000mi on a old, carbureted 4-cyl with the factory gasket. And it didn't fail until I really pushed it hard one hot summer day on the highway, for a long period. Oddly, it didn't really show signs of failure until I drove my friend home that night. About 70% of the way there (He lived way 'cross town) it finally gave... dramatically! From inside the car, you could here the coolant (Which was straight water at that moment) literally making gurgling pulsing sounds from boiling so hot. Thank goodness we were right next to a fuel station entrance when it happened.

I changed the gasket, and it was okay... But it never performed as strongly again. Guess I warped the block a touch.

White ashy deposits is oil and or fuel additives. Probably a combination of worn valve guide seals and worn rings.

To the OP: You would have been just as happy with regular old "came with them from the factory" AC delco platinums, Iridium is now the newest thing and plug electrodes are getting smaller and smaller....since when is a sharp point in a combustion chamber desirable? Sounds like a hot spot to me priming you for detonation. The reason your probably not getting the popping anymore (why in god's name are you revving the poor thing to 5500 with no load anyway?) is because with no ashy deposits there is less hot material on the plug that does not transfer heat well. So it stays hot and continues to ignite fuel and air left in the combustion chamber...

Glad you bought into the iridium thing though....putting that stuff in your car thats nowhere near what the factory wanted when you have no real reason to is always good for it...you got sold...



Buildin' n' Boostin for 08' - Alex Richards

I sold your mother last night for 4 iridiums!!!

I have yet to see a "performance" head gasket for the 2.2..... Where can you buy them???

By the way, its a 1994...

Flatout Gaskets makes rubber coated copper gaskets for '90-'97 2.2L OHVs (#9408) in thicknesses of .020", .030", .040", .050" and more. Hussey Copper makes bare copper head (SBC-220...) gaskets in thicknesses of .024", .031", .037", .042", .044", 0.46", .048" and more. Both can make any bore size you wish. The stock and stock replacement head gaskets are .055" compressed thickness. Copper head gaskets can be used with-out O-ringing, but it isn't recommended.

I have yet to see or hear of anyone making an MLS for the '97 & older models. Cometic Gaskets makes them for the '98+ 2200s.

MadJack wrote:Flatout Gaskets makes rubber coated copper gaskets for '90-'97 2.2L OHVs (#9408) in thicknesses of .020", .030", .040", .050" and more. Hussey Copper makes bare copper head (SBC-220...) gaskets in thicknesses of .024", .031", .037", .042", .044", 0.46", .048" and more. Both can make any bore size you wish. The stock and stock replacement head gaskets are .055" compressed thickness. Copper head gaskets can be used with-out O-ringing, but it isn't recommended.

I have yet to see or hear of anyone making an MLS for the '97 & older models. Cometic Gaskets makes them for the '98+ 2200s.

that.

Quote:

Oh yeah... There is one thing you could do when you hit the century mark: Replace the timing chain & tensioner/guide set. For some reason, these fail around 100,000mi. At least in the S-truck applications of this engine (Again, odd).

You still haven't figured this one out??? Front drivers have far less trouble with this, while many, many more rear drivers will see the problem. The problem is endemic to the rear wheels drive and a specific issue with the engine compartment layout.

I'd skip the chain swap on a front driver, and have done so many times without problems.

Glad you bought into the iridium thing though....putting that stuff in your car thats nowhere near what the factory wanted when you have no real reason to is always good for it...you got sold...

I installed iridium plugs in the turbo'ed 93 cav, but only because there were signs of excess fuel in certain decel conditions which were causing stalling. I used Delco boxed iridium plugs intended for the SC'd 3800 (they cost about $3 per plug). In N/A applications I will use Bosch single platinum plugs because they seem to live for a billion miles. And because they require less voltage to fire, which allows longer between plug wire changes.

Head gasket failing: '94 was about the end of the era when it comes to LN2 gaskets letting go. It's easy to tell when they are failing because you find coolant leaking at the end of the block above the transmission. I used to pick up J cars for pennies because of this. I'd spend about 2-3 hrs to R+R the gasket (often it was just "lift head, slide old out, slide new in") and it would be good for years. I have seen maybe a handful of those early ln2 gaskets which let coolant into the cylinder when they fail.

When choosing exhaust remember that pipe size should be based partly on the heat energy contained in the exhaust gas. Catalytic converters add heat during most operating conditions, and mufflers remove it, so it's not a bad idea to size pipes up 1/4" dia after a cat and down 1/4" after a muffler.

-->Slow

slowolej wrote:

Quote:

Oh yeah... There is one thing you could do when you hit the century mark: Replace the timing chain & tensioner/guide set. For some reason, these fail around 100,000mi. At least in the S-truck applications of this engine (Again, odd).

You still haven't figured this one out??? Front drivers have far less trouble with this, while many, many more rear drivers will see the problem. The problem is endemic to the rear wheels drive and a specific issue with the engine compartment layout.

I'd skip the chain swap on a front driver, and have done so many times without problems.

Glad you bought into the iridium thing though....putting that stuff in your car thats nowhere near what the factory wanted when you have no real reason to is always good for it...you got sold...

I installed iridium plugs in the turbo'ed 93 cav, but only because there were signs of excess fuel in certain decel conditions which were causing stalling. I used Delco boxed iridium plugs intended for the SC'd 3800 (they cost about $3 per plug). In N/A applications I will use Bosch single platinum plugs because they seem to live for a billion miles. And because they require less voltage to fire, which allows longer between plug wire changes.

Head gasket failing: '94 was about the end of the era when it comes to LN2 gaskets letting go. It's easy to tell when they are failing because you find coolant leaking at the end of the block above the transmission. I used to pick up J cars for pennies because of this. I'd spend about 2-3 hrs to R+R the gasket (often it was just "lift head, slide old out, slide new in") and it would be good for years. I have seen maybe a handful of those early ln2 gaskets which let coolant into the cylinder when they fail.

When choosing exhaust remember that pipe size should be based partly on the heat energy contained in the exhaust gas. Catalytic converters add heat during most operating conditions, and mufflers remove it, so it's not a bad idea to size pipes up 1/4" dia after a cat and down 1/4" after a muffler.

-->Slow

Okay... So FWD apps have less trouble with this than RWD apps (DUH). But still, why? Do you know the answer for this, Slow? And if so, please share it with me so I can share it with others on the other site I subscribe to, so they can have a clear idea as to what's to really blame. Instead of of leaving it to metaphysical mumbo-jumbo.

I back you on the head gasket thing. My in 165,000mi of operation, with good records kept before I took it, '94 never had a hint of trouble cooling system-wise. So with your words I can fully disspell the "bad gasket" myth Popular Hot Rodding purported with it's list of engines they should never have built. The LN2 (particularly in truck trim) was on it for supposedly the same reason. And the core-plug rust-out rumor... regular coolant changes eliminate that.

And I totally hear you on the 1/4" more between the cat & the muffler, since my truck got exactly that when I had the old catalytic convertor replaced. (1-7/8"->2-1/4"->1-7/8"). Shame I gotta go repair it again, but the in-cab noise since the tailpipe fell-away & caused the weight of the muffler to lever against the the ball-socket midway in the extention, exposing the manifold outlet to open-air, is getting unbearable.


Go beyond the "bolt-on".

Quote:

Okay... So FWD apps have less trouble with this than RWD apps (DUH).

I'm not so sure this DUH was well placed. After all, you're the one looking for an answer.

Hmmm....
So I've figured out a cause, and I'm supposed to "give it up" because you've demanded it? Wouldn't you like the "satisfaction" of figuring out the solution for yourself? I promise it's much more rewarding than being handed the information. And what, exactly, is the benefit to me in knowing you're going to head right over to another forum and say "Guys! Look! I've found the answer!"

Think about the area of the engine where the failure occurs, and think about what is (or isn't) relatively close to it on the different applications. Think about the direction of forces generally acting on the engine in relation to the crankshaft axis. Keep in mind the LN2 is primarily a front drive design, and look closely at where the oil to lube the chain is supplied from. Finally, don't forget that GM released a service bulletin 87-61-21A which gives direct clues as to the cause for premature failure.

-->Slow

[quote=slowolej

Think about the area of the engine where the failure occurs, and think about what is (or isn't) relatively close to it on the different applications. Think about the direction of forces generally acting on the engine in relation to the crankshaft axis. Keep in mind the LN2 is primarily a front drive design, and look closely at where the oil to lube the chain is supplied from. Finally, don't forget that GM released a service bulletin 87-61-21A which gives direct clues as to the cause for premature failure.

-->Slow

You mean to tell me that because of oil-sump placement & engine arrangement is the reason that the S-trucks with the LN2 prior to a certain year (The one that began the orificed galley plug) have the premie failure rate compared to the car apps!? Oh... Bother!

Oh well... I suppose that if I took time to consider it, I would have figured it out. Just one of those funny things... Like why does the 5.0L fox-chassis pan have a sump in the forward end that shows no provision for drainage to the rear (Where the pickup screen is). Or the one on the Chevette's gasoline engine either, for that matter. (Think: oil-pump cooling) Anyway....Thanks anyhow. It should really help solve the mystery for us pre-2000 Double-deuce'd S-truckers.

Say... Wasn't the cross-flow Iron-Duke also originally intended for FWD apps? If so, it'd certainly explain the helical-gear cam-drive. That always seemed like overdoing it a lil', if you ask me.




Go beyond the "bolt-on".

OMT: By mystery, I mean confoundment.


Go beyond the "bolt-on".