Aren't the wheels driven by the engine(s)?

you would be correct, the engines provide the foward motion for the wheels to spin, thus the turbines drive the wheels

F U CHEESEPIEBoY!

HAHA

Would a hovercraft be able to move forward above a treadmill if the treadmill were going the same speed in the opposite direction? Since a plane isn't a hovercraft it needs something to keep it from scraping the runway (wheels). The wheels do nothing but provide support to hold the plane off the ground during takeoff and braking during landing they provide neither a source or hindrance to the motion of the plane (even if on a treadmill).

Also, putting the plane on a treadmill going the same direction wouldn't shorten takeoff distance because once again the wheels and therefore the treadmill does nothing to affect the motion of the plane. The motion is all due to the forward force from the engines (jets, propellers, etc) in response to rearward motion of the air they move.


When I say the treadmill will have no effect on the motion of the plane, it actually will, but it's negligible (bearing friction). Just like your wheels on your car don't appreciably affect it's performance.

If you put wings on your car and tried to take off on a treadmill, I would agree that it wouldn't work, but your car's motion is directed through the wheels whereas an airplane's is via engine interaction with air.

Put a giant fan behind the plane that would speed up to match the planes airspeed and I would agree that it wouldn't take off.

On a treadmill it would be blue skies in an instant.

Im not reading this nor do I want to argue.


Myth Busters did it and we argued for days on here...


BTW this took to seconds to find..it was the first post to come up

Plane Treadmill thread

what good is the internet if you can't argue about something??

hahahaha... there is always one...

Josh.. just give up bud, I'm an aviation major and this was brought up in our class the other day as a joke... noone ever said the converyor belt was only as long as the plane. The conveyor belt is 10,000 feet long( A normal runway, actually longer than most runways). The plane will take off. yada yada yada.. higher pressure over the wing due to the air traveling a longer distance over the air foil...blah blah blah.. the plane will fly. The question really being is the plane will move forward.. It's nothing like a dyno at all...incomparable, due to the wheels not being the medium of forward thrust.. If need be I will explain more when I'm not drunk.

.......Thread Destroyer....... wrote:Aren't the wheels driven by the engine(s)?

It's like a roller skaters wheels being driven by the skater. They really aren't driven, they only react to the motion of the person to which they are attached.

There is so much fail in this thread it may just burst if any more is posted in it.

But isn't the conveyor belt also powered by the plane engines?

.......Thread Destroyer....... wrote:But isn't the conveyor belt also powered by the plane engines?

Only at high end fitness centers

Labotomi wrote:

.......Thread Destroyer....... wrote:But isn't the conveyor belt also powered by the plane engines?

Only at high end fitness centers

I always though they used the machines at those fitness centers to power the electricity for the place. The machines are all secretly electric generators. Sort of like a "Matrix" of physical fitness freeks.

Actually its low pressure above the wing. An airplane is actually pulled up more then pushed up.

The wheels arnt powered LOL...

Look at pontoon planes, they dont have wheels.

Josh.... have you ever been to a municipal airport? Your know how they back a Cesna 182 into a hanger? A couple of guys push the thing in there.... they roll so easy it isnt even funny. One guy can roll a Piper cub around.

You mean they don't have Reverse? I really must bone up on my aviation technology.

/sigh

this is about as pointless as politics, make logic and it gets turned down.

This is what i used to do work on






yes weebel i've been to a lot of airports, what my point was, the plane does not have two drive trains, it has movement from the turbines, there for the wheels are still important to provide support for the plane to take off. now im not a physics major by far, but i studied in school and it just does not make sense, im not being close minded by far, i'm an analytic thinker (figure out how @!#$ works in my head with out taking it apart)

so to better describe what is going on in my mind i drew a crappy picture on paint.





so on the second picture, if the plane and the conveyor are going the same speed it wont take off faster correct, what if you speed up the conveyor belt say 150mph would it take off in a shorter distance ?

Since the wheels only support the plane to keep it from being belly down on the runway, imagine if the airplane could levitate above the conveyor. Would it then be able to take off? I say this because the wheels have nothing to do with thrust or resistance to motion so why would their interaction with the conveyor have any effect on the motion of the plane?

Maybe if the wheels spun fast enough, they could cause the plane to levitate!

where do you get the air speed from? my example is if your on a skateboard on a treadmill going 10mph, you don't have 10mph winds hitting you.

Josh wrote:where do you get the air speed from? my example is if your on a skateboard on a treadmill going 10mph, you don't have 10mph winds hitting you.

but if someone pushed you forwards at 1mph you would have a 1mph wind hitting you even if the treadmill sped up to 11mph

Weebel wrote: An airplane is actually pulled up more then pushed up.

ABSOLUTELY wrong.

the high pressure under the wing pushes up on the plane. since pressure is constantly trying to equalize, the high pressure is pushing into the low pressure area, and taking with it whatever it can. the high pressure under the wing is pushing up towards the area of low pressure above the wing, and with the wing in the way the high pressure pushes the wing up.

there is no such thing in nature as suction. there is only high pressure pushing into an area of low pressure in order to equalize the pressure between the two areas.

cannon fodder wrote:

Weebel wrote: An airplane is actually pulled up more then pushed up.

ABSOLUTELY wrong.

the high pressure under the wing pushes up on the plane. since pressure is constantly trying to equalize, the high pressure is pushing into the low pressure area, and taking with it whatever it can. the high pressure under the wing is pushing up towards the area of low pressure above the wing, and with the wing in the way the high pressure pushes the wing up.

there is no such thing in nature as suction. there is only high pressure pushing into an area of low pressure in order to equalize the pressure between the two areas.

I think that's just semantics, however I was taught that the higher pressure under the wings push upwards creating lift. It's like electricity, in reality electrons flow from negative to positive, but my classes always taught that electricity flowed from positive to negative. It doesn't matter as long as you're consistent in your calculations.

2001 Olds Alero (LD9)
650 whp / 543 ft-lb
@turboalero

Forgot to mention, Josh, you're close to having the intelligence Bill showed on his awesome "full-size spare tire" thread. How the @!#$ can you not understand that with the wheels spinning freely, it's the engine thrust that propels it forward? The wheels spinning in any direction have extremely minimal impact on keeping the plane from moving forward. For how much time you've spent around aircraft and supposedly even worked on some (scary), you can't comprehend such a basic concept on how they lift off?




2001 Olds Alero (LD9)
650 whp / 543 ft-lb
@turboalero

[ion wrote: C2]

LOL. Aerobic-dynamics!

haha.. that's why I shouldn't be trying to talk while drunk.. yes I meant high pressure under the wing.. The air pressure tries to equalize, pushing the wing into the air. It's like if you stick your hand out of the window in a car and tilt it backwards a little bit the air will push it up.

Josh, think about it, the wheels like said before are just there to allow the airplane to roll around the conveyor belt could be moving backwards triple the speed the airplane needs to takeoff and the takeoff length won't change, except maybe a few feet for the friction.

This is a way to think of it... get on a skateboard or roller blades and put it on a treadmill, and tie a rope to the front of it. Hold yourself there with the rope, the friction will make you apply a little force to stay there, but not much, you can easily pull yourself forward because you are using your arms as "thrust" not your feet, the wheels are there to counteract the treadmill moving. It will be just as easy to pull yourself on the treadmill as it would be to pull yourself on a non-moving ground, the wheels will just be moving faster on the treadmill, your speed plus the speed of the treadmill is the speed of your wheels, but that doesn't affect your "air speed".

Just watch this and be done with it. Probably the best explanation of everything.