I can't take anyone seriously that listens to that windbag.

I listen to rush = I am a moron with no speck of intelligence to think for myself



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85

Rodimus Prime wrote:I can't take anyone seriously that listens to that windbag.

I listen to rush = I am a moron with no speck of intelligence to think for myself

LOL. Keep telling yourself that. I have gone for months without listening to him, and I still look up the same information, and come to the same conclusion.

The morons are the ones who take everything the MSM is pushing and spout it as truth.

If you want a real good example of the fact that I think, and research, for myself, go look through all of the debate threads from the fall. Read every one of my posts. Now consider that I had not listened to any talk show, Rush or otherwise, for over 6 months. My opinions have not changed, and they will not.

You are the one who is a mindless sheep, led around by the mass hysteria and fear mongering of the left and their supporters, the MSM.

But nice try.

By the way, in regards to the economy, and the stimulus plan, read this:

The Obama Presidency

A very important paragraph, because it falls in with what I've been saying for months, is this:

Quote:

But it is not his spending that will transform our political system, it is his tax and welfare policies. In the name of short-term stimulus, he will give every American family (who makes less than $200,000) a welfare check of $1,000 euphemistically called a refundable tax credit. And he will so sharply cut taxes on the middle class and the poor that the number of Americans who pay no federal income tax will rise from the current one-third of all households to more than half. In the process, he will create a permanent electoral majority that does not pay taxes, but counts on ever-expanding welfare checks from the government.

This is where the socialism comes into play that I and many others have been screaming about. Once you have more than half the country recieving handouts, the rest of the citizens are doomed, because the government will have an easy path to raise the taxes on the rich endlessly, and hand it all out to the rest. And the liberals will have made sure that they have the voters to support them, because no one living on handout will vote for someone who suggests we stop with the handouts.

See the slippery slope we could allow our country to start down? If this doesn't scare the hell out of you, you are just not looking at the facts.

The things that this administration wants to push through will be herralded as moves to repair our economy, but they are 100% political, aimed at completely changing what has made this country what it is.

Quiklilcav wrote:By the way, in regards to the economy, and the stimulus plan, read this:

The Obama Presidency

A very important paragraph, because it falls in with what I've been saying for months, is this:

Quote:

But it is not his spending that will transform our political system, it is his tax and welfare policies. In the name of short-term stimulus, he will give every American family (who makes less than $200,000) a welfare check of $1,000 euphemistically called a refundable tax credit. And he will so sharply cut taxes on the middle class and the poor that the number of Americans who pay no federal income tax will rise from the current one-third of all households to more than half. In the process, he will create a permanent electoral majority that does not pay taxes, but counts on ever-expanding welfare checks from the government.

This is where the socialism comes into play that I and many others have been screaming about. Once you have more than half the country recieving handouts, the rest of the citizens are doomed, because the government will have an easy path to raise the taxes on the rich endlessly, and hand it all out to the rest. And the liberals will have made sure that they have the voters to support them, because no one living on handout will vote for someone who suggests we stop with the handouts.

See the slippery slope we could allow our country to start down? If this doesn't scare the hell out of you, you are just not looking at the facts.

The things that this administration wants to push through will be herralded as moves to repair our economy, but they are 100% political, aimed at completely changing what has made this country what it is.

You lost me with your inability to do simple math. and then you made yourself a laughing stock when you said you listen to Rush.

The guy literally said he was PRAYING that Barack Obama would FAIL completely in his presidency. This literally translates to

"I hate Democrats.. & Black Democrats SO much, that I want America to fail, just so I can gloat".


Worthless. Up here in Canada, we laugh people like this off.



My Cav
I give up...
i'm buying a VW those people love trees, so they should love eachother too... "Andy"

& The interviews to back up Rush statement.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wir9cNFkcLw

& Full Interviews below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sgr2elCleLQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw6MdiKjqyU



My Cav
I give up...
i'm buying a VW those people love trees, so they should love eachother too... "Andy"

Short Hand wrote:You lost me with your inability to do simple math. and then you made yourself a laughing stock when you said you listen to Rush.

The guy literally said he was PRAYING that Barack Obama would FAIL completely in his presidency. This literally translates to

"I hate Democrats.. & Black Democrats SO much, that I want America to fail, just so I can gloat"...

1) Show me where I am unable to do simple math.

2) If you would like to debate any statistics or theories, let's go. If you're just going to claim I don't know what I'm talking about, without adding anything substantial to the argument, and base that, as others have, on my choice in radio listening, then you fail.

Jazer {Turbo Chica} wrote:We have certain people in America that have so much money they don't know what to do with it. FAMOUS People (Movie stars, muscians, sports players). There is no need for them to have THAT much money. They only get it because of the proceeds they recieve from people like, us. There is no real reason why they should be making THAT much money. Look at people like Police Officers & Fireman they risk their lives to get paid nowhere near what they should. I mean these people are not just rich. They are so far beyond being wealthy.

You don't want A-Rod to make $1bil/yr? Don't go to the games, don't watch them on TV, don't buy products promoted by him. Go to minor league games instead.
Don't want Britney to make a comeback? Don't buy her CD, don't listen to the stations which play her music, boycott TMZ, don't buy the tabloids, and write your local news station asking for them to focus on the real issues. Check out the local music scene and theater instead.
You said it. You're paying their salaries.


As for the economy and our nation's idealistic division, here are Notec's no-brainer steps to a brighter American future:


- 25% personal income tax rate, across the board. Short term gains, long term gains, it doesn’t matter. You make a dollar, you flip the government a quarter.

- Citizenship for any non-felon who pays income taxes and can pass a G.E.D. exam, in any language.

- Are you a citizen? G.E.D. or better? Employed? No criminal history? Here’s your gun.

- Government-provided health care for qualifying citizens (non-smoker, non-alcoholic, non-druggie, don’t need forklift to remove from bed, etc), with a $20 co-pay to discourage unnecessary visits.

- 0% corporate taxes. The money ends up in someone’s pocket eventually, they pay the quarter.

- Public education through a bachelors degree at no charge to citizens.

- An eye for an eye. Insurance fraud? Company claims your assets. Rape? Say hello to little Stacy’s dad’s butcher knife. Bankruptcy? Guess you farked yourself on that one, show me your comparable assets or let me show you the border...

- Legalized marijuana. All smoking ordinances apply, taxed as cigarettes, so as long as they’re not hurting anyone… DUI is not just for alcohol.

- Abortion illegal for minors without parent/legal guardian being PRESENT during procedure. Use of 3 strikes rule (3rd time it comes out naturally).

- Gay couples given same benefits as straight couples (including right-to-wed, but church has right to refuse service).

- 25% tax on all imported goods, 10% on exports. 1:1 international import/export agreements. A big FU to NAFTA/CAFTA/SAFTA.

- Increase in public servant salaries. Employ better eggs.

- Abolish EO/AA activities from public services.

- Social Security lives, life-long tax payers don't get thrown to the curb.

- Want welfare? You'd better be missing a limb or half your mind...

- No minimum wage, and open borders (figuratively speaking). Everybody wins.

- Honorably discharged military veteran? You'll always be guaranteed a job, even if it's campus security.

- For the love Geebus, FSM, whatever... In-town interstate speed limit back up to 65 mph (105 km/h).

- Metric system standardized by 2020.


I'll let Obama's cabinet fill in the blanks, the legislature gets a mandatory un-paid vacation.




11 speaker JL Audio stereo setup for sale:
http://www.j-body.org/classifieds/audio/52021/

I love it.

But a few thoughts:

Quote:

- 25% personal income tax rate, across the board. Short term gains, long term gains, it doesn’t matter. You make a dollar, you flip the government a quarter.

Too high for federal. I'd say 15% federal, with states being able to set their own up to a maximum of 10%, and the first $20K for everyone is exempt.

Quote:

- Citizenship for any non-felon who pays income taxes and can pass a G.E.D. exam, in any language.

No. Anyone here illegally right now gets deported, and they can put their name on the waiting list, while having their picture posted on a government website for employers and law enforcement to access. Legal imigrants are granted citizenship based on the above, but exam in english, and must have a home or apartment lined up first, and not living in someone's basement so that we end up with overcrowded houses, towns, and cities. If you don't find a way to make a living, and you get evicted, you get deported as well.

Quote:

- Government-provided health care for qualifying citizens (non-smoker, non-alcoholic, non-druggie, don’t need forklift to remove from bed, etc), with a $20 co-pay to discourage unnecessary visits.

If the government controls the entire health care system, the quality will drop. They just need to end all the forced free/uninsured services, and end all the fraudulent lawsuits to everyone and their brother.

Quote:

- 0% corporate taxes. The money ends up in someone’s pocket eventually, they pay the quarter.

OMG! Evil corporations MUST pay! They must pay 50%! Corporations are evil! (I kid, of course)

Quote:

- An eye for an eye. Insurance fraud? Company claims your assets. Rape? Say hello to little Stacy’s dad’s butcher knife. Bankruptcy? Guess you farked yourself on that one, show me your comparable assets or let me show you the border...

Excellent!

Quote:

- 25% tax on all imported goods, 10% on exports. 1:1 international import/export agreements. A big FU to NAFTA/CAFTA/SAFTA.

0% on exports. If the country they are going to decides to tax them, that's their perogative, but we should be letting the stuff go out for nothing.

Quote:

- Increase in public servant salaries. Employ better eggs.

Quote:

- Social Security lives, life-long tax payers don't get thrown to the curb.

Yeah, and it becomes the savings system it was originally supposed to be. No more spending elsewhere.

Quote:

- Want welfare? You'd better be missing a limb or half your mind...

Win!

Quiklilcav wrote:

Quote:

- 25% personal income tax rate, across the board. Short term gains, long term gains, it doesn’t matter. You make a dollar, you flip the government a quarter.

Too high for federal. I'd say 15% federal, with states being able to set their own up to a maximum of 10%, and the first $20K for everyone is exempt.

Sorry, I have a hard time leaving certain things up to individual states (especially since mine just royally F'ed our public universities, including ASU--the largest in the nation). I strongly support educational and scientific research, neither of which can safely be left to the states. States can tax, but a 20-25% national level would be required in order to support federal programs. You can call it socialism if you want, but I bet the upper-tiers would appreciate the cut, and the lower tiers would appreciate the support programs.

Quiklilcav wrote:

Quote:

- Citizenship for any non-felon who pays income taxes and can pass a G.E.D. exam, in any language.

No. Anyone here illegally right now gets deported, and they can put their name on the waiting list, while having their picture posted on a government website for employers and law enforcement to access. Legal imigrants are granted citizenship based on the above, but exam in english, and must have a home or apartment lined up first, and not living in someone's basement so that we end up with overcrowded houses, towns, and cities. If you don't find a way to make a living, and you get evicted, you get deported as well.

1) You're not going to find all the illegals, get over it.
2) There shouldn't be a waiting list, the system is WAAAYYY too lethargic right now. Without the current wait, illegal immigration as it is right now would be drastically decreased.
3) Try lining up a house without a job, or a job without citizenship. Citizenship must come first.
4) I have yet to hear a convincing argument for English-only, most of the people arguing for it can't speak English themselves (I'm looking at you Chris ). Our language has constantly evolved, it's not like you have to learn Spanish.
5) How many Americans do you know of who have recently lost there jobs and had to foreclose? You going to boot the whiteys across the border as well?

Quiklilcav wrote:

Quote:

- Government-provided health care for qualifying citizens (non-smoker, non-alcoholic, non-druggie, don’t need forklift to remove from bed, etc), with a $20 co-pay to discourage unnecessary visits.

If the government controls the entire health care system, the quality will drop. They just need to end all the forced free/uninsured services, and end all the fraudulent lawsuits to everyone and their brother.

Having sat the first four days of this week on the jury for a medical malpractice lawsuit (decided for the defense in the end), I can't agree with that part more. However, I feel people will be less likely to sue the government than individual corporations (a government which actually supports them, not this one). How about a law where a plaintiff loses benefits if they unsuccessfully file a malpractice suit. They can pay for their own coverage after that, which may be a little discouraging to those looking for some free money. Government coverage will not be required, only offered. Quality will only drop if providers stop getting paid.

Quiklilcav wrote:

Quote:

- 25% tax on all imported goods, 10% on exports. 1:1 international import/export agreements. A big FU to NAFTA/CAFTA/SAFTA.

0% on exports. If the country they are going to decides to tax them, that's their perogative, but we should be letting the stuff go out for nothing.

I originally thought 0%, and it would be a good idea in the long term. However, I feel short term it would lead to higher quality products being produced and sold here. Right now our primary exports are what, crops, and .... ?
It will also help us right the wrongs created under the 'free trade' agreements by giving local farmers a chance in their own countries. Developing third world economies will only benefit us in the long run, as they will eventually be able to afford our more technologically advanced products (or Japan's, whatever).

You have to accept a little donkey with your elephant.





***BREAKING NEWS*** notec's steps to a brighter American future:
http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=36&i=58477&t=58099#58477

As for the economy and our nation's idealistic division, here are Notec's no-brainer steps to a brighter American future:


- 25% personal income tax rate, across the board. Short term gains, long term gains, it doesn’t matter. You make a dollar, you flip the government a quarter.
Yeah right! Try 10-15% flat tax. We pay them too much because they waste too much already. It would be stupid to give them more.

- Citizenship for any non-felon who pays income taxes and can pass a G.E.D. exam, in any language.
We speak English here. Pass it in English or GTFO. This will never happen anyway. The Mexican government will not allow it. If it did happen the US would be flooded with mexicans. Building a fence and securing our borders should be #1 priority.

- Are you a citizen? G.E.D. or better? Employed? No criminal history? Here’s your gun.
Define criminal history. You mean as it stands now no felons can buy guns. Now next up is who is going to pay for these guns? Who is going to make these guns? how much is the contract going to be for? What model of gun? This goes so much deeper then what you wrote it will not happen nor would it be a good idea when we are this far in debt as a nation.

- Government-provided health care for qualifying citizens (non-smoker, non-alcoholic, non-druggie, don’t need forklift to remove from bed, etc), with a $20 co-pay to discourage unnecessary visits.
I don't want the government screwing up the best healthcare in the world!

- 0% corporate taxes. The money ends up in someone’s pocket eventually, they pay the quarter.
Too many ???'s to even begin to say or know if it is a good idea or not

- Public education through a bachelors degree at no charge to citizens.
It would still face the same problems our public schools face now. Soon a bachelors degree would be as worthless as a high school diploma is now.

- An eye for an eye. Insurance fraud? Company claims your assets. Rape? Say hello to little Stacy’s dad’s butcher knife. Bankruptcy? Guess you farked yourself on that one, show me your comparable assets or let me show you the border...
Good luck fighting the constitution and the the ACLU on that one.

- Legalized marijuana. All smoking ordinances apply, taxed as cigarettes, so as long as they’re not hurting anyone… DUI is not just for alcohol.
I think we have much more pressing issues.

- Abortion illegal for minors without parent/legal guardian being PRESENT during procedure. Use of 3 strikes rule (3rd time it comes out naturally).
Only in cases of rape, incest, or if it may kill the mother to go through the delivery.

- Gay couples given same benefits as straight couples (including right-to-wed, but church has right to refuse service).
NO! Call it whatever you want, give them the same rights just don't ruin the sanctity of mariage by calling it something it is not!

- 25% tax on all imported goods, 10% on exports. 1:1 international import/export agreements. A big FU to NAFTA/CAFTA/SAFTA.
I don't see a problem with that.

- Increase in public servant salaries. Employ better eggs.

- Abolish EO/AA activities from public services.

- Social Security lives, life-long tax payers don't get thrown to the curb.
I have been forced to pay into it. It had better be there when I retire!

- Want welfare? You'd better be missing a limb or half your mind...
Doing away with welfare will never happen. The kids will be the ones that get hurt in the end. Welfare and disability reform you bet. Jail time for those who abuse it too.

- No minimum wage, and open borders (figuratively speaking). Everybody wins.
yeah right we would quickly have the same problems Mexico has

- Honorably discharged military veteran? You'll always be guaranteed a job, even if it's campus security.
no need for this if they want a job they can get one just like anyone else

- For the love Geebus, FSM, whatever... In-town interstate speed limit back up to 65 mph (105 km/h).
We have too many idiots now who don't get it that you need to acelerate to the speed of traffic in order to blend in when getting onto the interstate.

- Metric system standardized by 2020.
This should have been done along time ago.


I'll let Obama's cabinet fill in the blanks, the legislature gets a mandatory un-paid vacation.
You mean the same corrupt people he has been filling cabinet seats with?









FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!

- 25% personal income tax rate, across the board. Short term gains, long term gains, it doesn’t matter. You make a dollar, you flip the government a quarter.
Yeah right! Try 10-15% flat tax. We pay them too much because they waste too much already. It would be stupid to give them more.
I believe that in order to sufficiently fund heathcare, education and civil services, 22-25% would be needed. If we really want to start cutting into the national debt, 25% would be a good idea. Even at 25%, those benefiting least from the programs are actually getting a tax cut.

- Citizenship for any non-felon who pays income taxes and can pass a G.E.D. exam, in any language.
We speak English here. Pass it in English or GTFO. This will never happen anyway. The Mexican government will not allow it. If it did happen the US would be flooded with mexicans. Building a fence and securing our borders should be #1 priority.
You may speak some form of English, but that doesn't mean everyone else should have to. Hell, there are plenty of 'English'-as-a-first-language Americans who couldn't pass a grade-school level English test. If people find English will benefit them in their day-to-day lives, they will pick it up. You may be surprised at how many immigrants (legal and illegal) speak English just fine here in AZ.
Thankfully, the Mexican government doesn't have a whole lot to say here in America. If they want to start restricting people leaving their country, that's their right, and would only make your more happy, right?
Why do you care if their is a large influx of Mexican-Americans. As long as they are tax-paying and law-abiding, I don't see the problem.

- Are you a citizen? G.E.D. or better? Employed? No criminal history? Here’s your gun.
Define criminal history. You mean as it stands now no felons can buy guns. Now next up is who is going to pay for these guns? Who is going to make these guns? how much is the contract going to be for? What model of gun? This goes so much deeper then what you wrote it will not happen nor would it be a good idea when we are this far in debt as a nation.
I should probably clarify. This is not a socialism program. The government is not giving guns away, but rather limiting restrictions based on stupid factors like location (e.g. DC). Any flavor should be available up to and including military-spec.

- Government-provided health care for qualifying citizens (non-smoker, non-alcoholic, non-druggie, don’t need forklift to remove from bed, etc), with a $20 co-pay to discourage unnecessary visits.
I don't want the government screwing up the best healthcare in the world!
The best healthcare is in Cuba; you are free to move there. However, I think it's ridiculous that Susie can die from a run-of-the-mill bacterial infection because her father wanted a new Camaro instead of health insurance for his family. And it doesn't make much sense that someone can go into insurmountable debt because of something he had no control over, like appendicitis. If the doctors keep getting paid, they will continue providing service. And with a better educational system, there will be more competition for their jobs.

- 0% corporate taxes. The money ends up in someone’s pocket eventually, they pay the quarter.
Too many ???'s to even begin to say or know if it is a good idea or not
We can find this out, together, in non-partisan fashion, lol.

- Public education through a bachelors degree at no charge to citizens.
It would still face the same problems our public schools face now. Soon a bachelors degree would be as worthless as a high school diploma is now.
Maybe I should add reduced leniency when it comes to standardized testing. It's ridiculous how many parents can simply say 'but the test was just too hard', and actually make progress in there child's education. Kids nowadays don't pay attention in school, and don't put forth any effort outside of it. I'm very familiar with this since I have two siblings in grade school, and relatives teaching. Hell, I was IN high school this decade, and aced every test without actually making an effort.

- An eye for an eye. Insurance fraud? Company claims your assets. Rape? Say hello to little Stacy’s dad’s butcher knife. Bankruptcy? Guess you farked yourself on that one, show me your comparable assets or let me show you the border...
Good luck fighting the constitution and the the ACLU on that one.
The ACLU can F off, they're largely at fault for the degradation of our legal system.

- Legalized marijuana. All smoking ordinances apply, taxed as cigarettes, so as long as they’re not hurting anyone… DUI is not just for alcohol.
I think we have much more pressing issues.
If you were changing your tire and found out that your brake line was leaking, would you ignore it because you needed the tire to get moving and didn't need the brakes until you had to slow down? I'd say there are much more pressing issues than gay marriage, but you seem to be more opinionated on that topic than any of the others. Besides, legalizing marijuana would lead to large import and sales tax revenue, something that would really help right now.

- Abortion illegal for minors without parent/legal guardian being PRESENT during procedure. Use of 3 strikes rule (3rd time it comes out naturally).
Only in cases of rape, incest, or if it may kill the mother to go through the delivery.
We're going to have to agree to disagree here. There is no logical argument one way or another; I was merely trying to find a mid-way point.

- Gay couples given same benefits as straight couples (including right-to-wed, but church has right to refuse service).
NO! Call it whatever you want, give them the same rights just don't ruin the sanctity of mariage by calling it something it is not!
I'm pretty sure marriage lost all sanctity when then divorce rate surpassed 50%...

- Social Security lives, life-long tax payers don't get thrown to the curb.
I have been forced to pay into it. It had better be there when I retire!
Damn straight! After the last couple years (and the many periods before that), only a fool would want to leave something so important to the stock market.

- Want welfare? You'd better be missing a limb or half your mind...
Doing away with welfare will never happen. The kids will be the ones that get hurt in the end. Welfare and disability reform you bet. Jail time for those who abuse it too.
Kids will have education and healthcare. If parents can't provide food, clothing, and shelter, then they need to find someone who can, or CPS will.

- No minimum wage, and open borders (figuratively speaking). Everybody wins.
yeah right we would quickly have the same problems Mexico has
If they can pass citizenship requirements, pay taxes, and abide by the laws they agreed to, they will only be of benefit to society. As far as minimum wage, it is WAY too high for us to compete on the global level, and we've demonstrated that very clearly over the last 20 years.

- For the love Geebus, FSM, whatever... In-town interstate speed limit back up to 65 mph (105 km/h).
We have too many idiots now who don't get it that you need to acelerate to the speed of traffic in order to blend in when getting onto the interstate.
When they cause an accident, they receive the ticket for impeding the flow of traffic. This is a tough lesson, which generally leads to fast learning.

- Metric system standardized by 2020.
This should have been done along time ago.
Yes, it should have been started long ago. Maybe they've been saying "there are more pressing issues"?

I'll let Obama's cabinet fill in the blanks, the legislature gets a mandatory un-paid vacation.
You mean the same corrupt people he has been filling cabinet seats with?
I'm willing to give them a chance. The election was close enough that they won't get another if they screw up. Besides, if nothing else, it is very bi-partisan.

Like I told Quiklilcav, a balanced diet is essential. You need to have a side of donkey with that elephant steak.




fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster

***BREAKING NEWS*** notec's steps to a brighter American future:
http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=36&i=58477&t=58099#58477

That post looks like Christmas. LOL

Quiklilcav wrote:That post looks like Christmas. LOL

I realized that when I previewed. I didn't want to use blue for fear of being called a 'socialist lib-tard'




fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster

***BREAKING NEWS*** notec's steps to a brighter American future:
http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=36&i=58477&t=58099#58477

OHV notec wrote:

Quiklilcav wrote:

Quote:

- 25% personal income tax rate, across the board. Short term gains, long term gains, it doesn’t matter. You make a dollar, you flip the government a quarter.

Too high for federal. I'd say 15% federal, with states being able to set their own up to a maximum of 10%, and the first $20K for everyone is exempt.

Sorry, I have a hard time leaving certain things up to individual states (especially since mine just royally F'ed our public universities, including ASU--the largest in the nation). I strongly support educational and scientific research, neither of which can safely be left to the states. States can tax, but a 20-25% national level would be required in order to support federal programs. You can call it socialism if you want, but I bet the upper-tiers would appreciate the cut, and the lower tiers would appreciate the support programs.

the country was founded upon states rights, and those rights need to be adamantly defended. the beauty of the states rights system is that if you dont like the way a certain thing is set up, such as your public university system, then you can just move to the next state over. you can also change the system much easier on a local or state level than you can on the federal level.

by not allowing the states to individually govern themselves, such as with taxes or levies or even by making their own laws, what you are doing in essence is giving all control to the federal government. that is NEVER a good idea.

Quote:

Quiklilcav wrote:

Quote:

- Citizenship for any non-felon who pays income taxes and can pass a G.E.D. exam, in any language.

No. Anyone here illegally right now gets deported, and they can put their name on the waiting list, while having their picture posted on a government website for employers and law enforcement to access. Legal imigrants are granted citizenship based on the above, but exam in english, and must have a home or apartment lined up first, and not living in someone's basement so that we end up with overcrowded houses, towns, and cities. If you don't find a way to make a living, and you get evicted, you get deported as well.

1) You're not going to find all the illegals, get over it.
2) There shouldn't be a waiting list, the system is WAAAYYY too lethargic right now. Without the current wait, illegal immigration as it is right now would be drastically decreased.
3) Try lining up a house without a job, or a job without citizenship. Citizenship must come first.
4) I have yet to hear a convincing argument for English-only, most of the people arguing for it can't speak English themselves (I'm looking at you Chris ). Our language has constantly evolved, it's not like you have to learn Spanish.
5) How many Americans do you know of who have recently lost there jobs and had to foreclose? You going to boot the whiteys across the border as well?

1--illegals should go. if i speed, i get a ticket. if i drive while intoxicated, i go to jail. as citizens we have to obey the rules set up BY the people and illegals should not be exempt from these laws.
2--the more federal a system is, the more bureaucracy you will have to deal with. the waiting list is fine, as-is.
3--you seem to be all for federal help for everyone....cant we have halfway houses for LEGAL immigrants to help their transition period?
4--what is your argument for other languages? just because its easy for them? its simple: when you join a team you are meant to acclimate yourself with that team, becoming a--get ready for this--TEAM MEMBER. you wouldnt apply to a company, knowing their rules and regulations, and then once youre hired tell them "tough, we're going to do it my way" would you?

Quote:

Quiklilcav wrote:

Quote:

- Government-provided health care for qualifying citizens (non-smoker, non-alcoholic, non-druggie, don’t need forklift to remove from bed, etc), with a $20 co-pay to discourage unnecessary visits.

If the government controls the entire health care system, the quality will drop. They just need to end all the forced free/uninsured services, and end all the fraudulent lawsuits to everyone and their brother.

Having sat the first four days of this week on the jury for a medical malpractice lawsuit (decided for the defense in the end), I can't agree with that part more. However, I feel people will be less likely to sue the government than individual corporations (a government which actually supports them, not this one). How about a law where a plaintiff loses benefits if they unsuccessfully file a malpractice suit. They can pay for their own coverage after that, which may be a little discouraging to those looking for some free money. Government coverage will not be required, only offered. Quality will only drop if providers stop getting paid.

the government does nothing well and a national healthcare system would be run so poorly that no one would get the help they needed.

let me tell you how it would go: the corporation that donates or kicks back the most money to whomever is in charge of the system will get the contract. this means our healthcare will be in the hands of the lowest-bidder who, once granted a lucrative govt contract, will allow their non-existent quality to go unchecked. the govt, meanwhile, will slowly start to build up miles of rules and regulations pertaining to your individual health care choices. smoker? not anymore. overweight? i hope you enjoy your govt-mandated daily excercise routine. melanoma? well, its benign right now so we'll just take another look at it at your next visit. hopefully you dont die in the meantime.