Nothing is a bigger piss of then some self proclaimed hero of horsepower building up a 'sleeper' street car to own cars three times it's value. Perhaps this wouldn't be such a distasteful notion if the prospective vehicles these particular morons choose to do this with weren't such @!#$boxes.
I say the only reason some people in particular deem their vehicles 'sleepers' is because they are too lazy or completely unconcerned with the appearance of their ride. Excuse me, but the whole point of being involved the scene is to personalize your car. I'm not stating an opinion, as far as I am concerned, I'm stating a fact. Besides providing your vehicle with better intakes and exhuasts and adding more ponies under the hood to improve your performance, you also add your own touch to the exterior in whatever taste you may have. It's all about straight, clean modified rides. They get the magazine coverage for a reason, 'sleepers' are like hits of cocaine, they give you quick rush then you @!#$ crash and fail at life.
Case example: Buddy has a EG body hatch Civic. Honda-rotted rear quarters, been in multiple accidents without being properly repaired afterwards, and it's in about 3 colours. Underneath his mangled hood lies a young B18 base swap. Sitting in his garage is a newly acquired B16A2 V-tec and goodies to boost it. Congrats, idiot. When all is said and done your car will be boosted scrap metal.
What in the @!#$ hell is admirable about that? NOTHING. I'm embarassed to park next to him. I talk mods with him and he just whines about not being able to do his B16A2 turbo swap yet, while I'm considering bodyworking and maintaining my car. Once this swap is done, he'll still be rolling on stock rims with baldy-Michelin all seasons, stock breaks and whatnot.
@!#$ RETARDED! THIS IS WHY EURO AND JAP TUNERS MOCK US. 'Straight line car' MY ASS. These sort of people give me urges to sandblast their faces then dump a drum of acetone on them.
The Cliff Notes:
SLEEPER: def 1; Someone who concerns themselves with creating tin-can rockets that appear as if ready for scrap but in reality will smoke you off the line. The end result, you're not embarassed to drive your slower, cleaner car while they are impaled in the hydropole down the road due to all-season tires and stock brakes in a 400 whp @!#$box. def2; PISS POOR excuse to not do the neccessary bodywork or modification to make such car even 'presentable' in public
its just preference man. not everyone likes 5 ft tall wings or body kits that sit an inch or two off the ground. and maybe more importantly to your point, not all sleepers are @!#$boxes. in fact, i would wager that more often then not they are simply stock looking, versus rusted out, wrecked cars. plus, its not much of a "sleeper" if you modify the outside, is it? i mean that really defeats the purpose.
basically, everything youve stated is your opinion, not exactly a keystone for an intellectual discussion.
your an idiot
I personally think your upset about getting your ass kicked by a rusted out sleeper...
I know its hard to believe, but there are still people out there, who care about going fast, not just making there car look fast..
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Sunday, December 24, 2006 8:14 PM
yea um you need some new friends
i love the look of my car stock...i am not a sleeper, but i do modify my car, and i don't mod my exterior, does that make me a sleeper?
My car may run 18s, but I can do your taxes in 10 seconds flat.
JBO lube - they would never have enough in stock and we'd never see RodimusPrime again
Okay.. assumptions solve nothing. I could care less about going fast and racing. That's how you destroy your driving record and your ability to drive legally. His car owns me all day long, but guess what.. I'm not embarassed to admit I own that clean, nice Cav in the parking lot. My friend kind of has to put on his best smile to admit he owns that Civic.
Obviously my point wasn't made. WHO GIVES A @!#$ HOW FAST YOUR CAR IS IF IT LOOKS LIKE @!#$. And stock = @!#$. My point is that there is no thought put into a sleeper besides how much money you've dumped into your engine bay. How creative can that be? It's not, it's more or less purely mechanical. I am being highly opinionated (point of this particular forum area... ??), but as far as I am concerned a car should look as fast as it is, at least. They'd NEVER sell a Ferarri that looked like a Tuarus. They'd never sell a Tuarus with the power of a Ferarri. It doesn't fit and just doesn't make sense, especially to me.
Form over function, function over form. You don't neccessarily have to choose, but you don't see sponsors lining up for a base model Cavalier turbo. I understand everyone builds to their own taste, which I can appreciate. The fact that bothers me is people really defending this 'sleeper' @!#$. It really isn't that impressive that your base model unibody tin-can has the ability to smoke a highly engineered sports car of a different class of automobile. If I had a Lotus Elise and got owned at the track by a Civic, I'd applaud the driver and his vehicle's ability.. but it wouldn't drop my jaw. I could care less.. if it was the cleanest, nicest modded Civic I've ever laid eyes on.. then I'd be more interested to find out more.
It takes FAR more thought to build a highly competitive show car then it does to build a monster sleeper. Sure, you get creative with your turbo plumbing and different tricks under the hood and such, but to be fresh in the show scene takes a great deal of creative ability..
(ps. Big wings and stickers need not apply, I have @!#$ taste, btw)
Quote:
WHO GIVES A @!#$ HOW FAST YOUR CAR IS IF IT LOOKS LIKE @!#$. And stock = @!#$
thats ur opinion.....i think my stock sunfore looks gorgous.....
My car may run 18s, but I can do your taxes in 10 seconds flat.
JBO lube - they would never have enough in stock and we'd never see RodimusPrime again
kidduntradishunal wrote:I say the only reason some people in particular deem their vehicles 'sleepers' is because they are too lazy or completely unconcerned with the appearance of their ride. Excuse me, but the whole point of being involved the scene is to personalize your car. I'm not stating an opinion, as far as I am concerned, I'm stating a fact.
As far as your opinion is concerned you are stating facts. As far as facts are concerned, you are stating your own opinion. If you actually think that crap you are sprouting in fact rather than opinion - then you need to get aquainted with our old friend
THE DICTIONARY. Don't come back until you know just what the hell a fact is(or until you understand that your whole post IS 100% OPINION).
Rosario wrote:your an idiot
I personally think your upset about getting your ass kicked by a rusted out sleeper...
I know its hard to believe, but there are still people out there, who care about going fast, not just making there car look fast..
I Agree.
Hey I have an idea - lets let kidduntradishunal create a criteria that our cars must adhere to. This list should look something like...
1. All cars under 15 seconds in the 1/4 mile cannot be green, blue, or white
2. Real performance cars cannot have air conditioning - or maybe they have to have it - I forget
3. They must have full interior - or maybe they must be gutted fully - again I forget
4. They must have a big ugly ghey exagerated exhaust tip(w/blue LEDs)
5. They must have 15' tall spoilers with flames drawn on them.
6. Factory wheels are not allowed for some reason - I don't know why just ask kidduntradishunal
7. No car is fast without clear-corners
8. All cars must have mad japanese parts in them so they can be "j-spec" or whatever gheyness you prefer
9. Mad amounts of "sponsor stickers"
10. Those "turbo spool" noise generators for your exhaust - mandatory - even if you really have a turbo
11. Your car cannot be faster than kidduntradishunal's car - cuz that just isn't cool and he's gonna call your car a POS if it is
12. Roll cages must be pink and orange
13. You must be pimpin that K'Fed cd on your factory headunit
14. Any car that gets in the slightest fender bender must instantly be cubed even if the driver is still inside. Cars with slight dings are the tools of satan or something like that blah blah blah
15. You must be pimpin that K'Fed cd on your factory headunit
With that list of essential guidelines in mind - feel free to "kustomize" your car to kidduntradishunal's taste. Also feel free to add to the list...
I've never heard of this "part throttle" before. Does it just bolt on?
again this is all your opinion. and thats cool. but you really cant dis someone because they prefer engine over aesthetics, just like they shouldnt be able to dis you for not choosing engine mods. i mean isnt that the biggest schism that we in the "tuner" scene have with the "muscle car" guys? they want all engine and no body mods whereas the majority of us in our scene are driving around with stock engines and $5-10k in body mods
so lets try to dissect a few points here:
Quote:
I could care less about going fast and racing. That's how you destroy your driving record and your ability to drive legally
and racers could care less about looking pimp and cruising down the local strip. and illegal racing or wreckless driving is how you ruin your record, not owning a fast car. regardless of what the F & F shows, not everyone street races in urban areas at night.
Quote:
My friend kind of has to put on his best smile to admit he owns that Civic.
that sounds like something your friend needs to work on then. if he built it himself and its as fast as you say, then he should be proud. maybe he could toss a few bucks into making it look normal i.e. no rust, decent paint, no dents, etc.
Quote:
My point is that there is no thought put into a sleeper besides how much money you've dumped into your engine bay.
you spend more $ with body mods than you do with engine work ON AVERAGE. how much does it cost to swap a 3800 s/c into a cav? you could get it done for $1000 in parts from a junker if you turn the wrench yourself.
Quote:
How creative can that be?
more creative than you give it credit for obviously. ive seen tons of crazy stuff such as v8s in ford festivas. IMHO thats pretty damned creative.
Quote:
but as far as I am concerned a car should look as fast as it is
OR maybe we should say a car should be as FAST as it LOOKS?
Quote:
They'd NEVER sell a Ferarri that looked like a Tuarus. They'd never sell a Tuarus with the power of a Ferarri.
sorry but this happens all the time. maybe not with ferarris or other exotics, but its very common. hell, thats what started the muscle car craze back in the day. companies started cramming huge engines in their small cars. i could give you plenty of examples of underpowered good looking cars (how about any v6 stang/camaro/bird) as well as examples of overpowered "ugly" (or stock looking) cars (maybe the 390hp trailblazer ss?)
Quote:
you don't see sponsors lining up for a base model Cavalier turbo
sure you do, but not often. you DO see plenty of people lining up for stock looking hondas or mustangs or vettes though. the J scene as a whole has a predilection for inexpensive parts, especially engine mods. but on a whole there is more money to be made from aesthetic mods from the tuner scene because its easier to do than working on an engine.
Quote:
It really isn't that impressive that your base model unibody tin-can has the ability to smoke a highly engineered sports car of a different class of automobile
the HELL it isnt impressive! this is a point that i will defend most staunchly. if you can take a $5k car, toss in a bigger engine or a turbo, and roast $30k cars or v8s with twice the displacement, then YES it is impressive. and lets be honest.......that is the fun part!
Quote:
If I had a Lotus Elise and got owned at the track by a Civic, I'd applaud the driver and his vehicle's ability.. but it wouldn't drop my jaw. I could care less.. if it was the cleanest, nicest modded Civic I've ever laid eyes on.. then I'd be more interested to find out more.
well thats all you, bud. you can think like that, but others are allowed to think the opposite. while an elise would be sweet to drive, give me an LSx solstice and id be happy as hell
Quote:
It takes FAR more thought to build a highly competitive show car then it does to build a monster sleeper
ill give you this one. sure more thought goes into a show car because there are more facets that are modified...but thats apples and oranges. look at mull's cav--it had how many TVs? i mean he took it to the point that it was no longer a car. you couldnt drive it nor was it anywhere feasible for ANYTHING other than showing. most show cars are trailered and babied....but a fast car will almost always be driven to the track it competes at.
so to sum up: its your opinion vs anyone elses opinion. its cool to not like sleepers, but there is no logical reason for you to abuse them like this. want a slow, good looking car? no sweat off my nuts. but if i want to keep my car looking stock but swap in a v8, who are you to tell me not to?
Quote:
They'd NEVER sell a Ferarri that looked like a Tuarus. They'd never sell a Tuarus with the power of a Ferarri.
here is a better example for your comparison:
ferrari:
Quote:
The Mondial 8 is considered one of the marque's most reliable, inexpensive to maintain, and even practical cars due to its 214 hp (160 kW), proven drivetrain, and four seats.
taurus:
Quote:
A 235 hp (175 kW) 3.4 L DOHC V8 was specified for the SHO model ...The V8 in the SHO model (produced from 1996 to 1999) increased curb weight...though its top speed of 144 mph (232 km/h) was higher and its cornering and braking were improved.
yup...that means there was a production taurus that was faster than a ferrari.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Sunday, December 24, 2006 10:59 PM
Horsepower talks, cars with kickass stereo's walk. Sleepers piss you off? THAT'S THE WHOLE REASON THAT PEOPLE BUILD THEM!!!!!!!! How much fun is it to smoke someone with a car that costs less than a set of tires on his ride.
A lot!
Nothing made me happier than driving around in
this junkheap and leaving guys with cars whose windows actually went up and down hyperventilating with rage because their 30,000$ cars couldn't beat my 750$ Mustang rustbucket.
The whole point of a sleeper is either to scam you in street racing or bust your balls in front of all your friends. Not to mention the thrill of driving in a car that goes faster than hell but didn't cost anything so you don't care if anything breaks.
SLEEPER 4 EVER!
hehehe...
To me a sleeper is a stock looking car. Not a rust heap of dangerous parts flying together.
From the fans of sleepers back at you.. Wo cares what your car looks like if it's slow? Or more to the point. If you know things about cars you improve performance, if you don't then it light's , wings and body kits for you.
The "scene" isn't real. It's your car. do what you want. With my car, I'll do what I want. I like a stock apearance with double the power myself. I like a car that looks fresh off the lot until you crack the hood, or see a single digit time slip.. That impresses the hell ouyt of me. Metal fleck in the paint and bookshelf tails that don't help at all do not impress mess.. Sorry, wrong, they give me an impression all right.
Merry Christmas.
Good.
I just wanted to cause @!#$. It is annoying listening to someone boast about this and that about a car worth no more then $50. I can appreciate the time and effort any enthusiast puts in their pride and joy, but personally, I could never stand to look at a stock car in my driveway that has $1000s under the hood.
One thing I honestly don't understand is the obession with speed, and at a lot of times, unsafe speed (rusted out Mustangs...?). Perhaps you guys get a kick out of it, (I'm sure a lot of you do). I have racing experience to back this as well, regulated amatuer stockcar racing. I've built several stockcars. I've raced two. I know the rush of speed.. ..and the sinking feeling of creaming someone who is standing still at 60mph in a modified Civic. I literally put the right front strut tower into the firewall in that accident. Woo-hoo, what fun.. I've since moved on to less aggresive means of car enthusiasm.
It's great you can make a $5000 car take on $30,000+ cars with ease but another concern I can't seem to find unaddressed in this sort of style of modification is safety. Simply put, cars are built purposely. You can improve them, make them quicker but to take a 15 second car and turn it into a 10 flat 1/4 runner you're taking that car far out of it's class. Perhaps this doesn't mean much at a regulated track, but a street driven 'sleeper' who gets punched often will end out going beyond the drivers control. It's why there are such things as rev limiters and speed govenors. Another thing I've noticed is that a lot of these sleeper builders seem to be @!#$ invincible. They've never had that serious accident so making that off the line run at a stoplight doesn't concern them. Sweeping in and out of traffic seems to hold no consequence other then a ticket..
My reasoning behind this rant is the comparison between the different modification styles across the globe. Euro tuners have the big brakes, the right suspension and so forth to match the speed. In turn, that also takes away from this sleeper notion since these modifications are noticeable, but they also make the vehicle safer at their higher rates of speed. Japanese tuners are the same. The North American notion of sleeper, originally, to shoe-horn a huge v8 under the hood of a 'small' muscle car is somewhat obsolete. Stock brakes, @!#$ty tires and softie stock suspension should never be coupled with a huge HP monster.. it just isn't safe by my understanding...? I'm a 1rst year apprentice in mechanics, been in the trade since I could crawl. I'm not ignorant nor am I uneducated. A car that looks like @!#$, in most cases IS a piece of @!#$.. a bigger engine is just a quicker suicide.
you are a @!#$ asshat
You just argue extremes. Seriously, what are you liek 15. God damn is the nazi party to far to the left for you?!
Tell that to all the fbodies around here running REALLY nice suspension setups.
Tell that to my budys 68 camaro that has dual koni's in the rear and bear brakes.
Seriously
you are so stupid.
Oh my you have been in the trades since you could crawl.
That dosent make you a mechanic, that makes you a master broom pusher becuase thats probably all you did.
Get a decent head screwed on or change jobs.
Oh yeah no wonder i see you like the used. THere is the biggest clue right there.
There are good builders and bad builders in every group. Sleeper doesn't mean unsafe.
My own cars get upgraded suspesion and brakes as well. You can't win races on acceleration alone (except the drags and they get boring unless you are running under 10 seconds every time).
Simple.. Wanna race, go to the track, pass tech, and race. Keep it off the streets.
Fast on a buget doesn't work. Ends up dangerous.
One irresponsible builder does not make us all like that. Many of the rusted out "sleepers" are not modified at all. They sound like that because their exhaust is falling apart. They have so many problems in the drive line that they have to rev to get rolling, and that leeds to the occasional chirp out of the tires
I like it when a cop can look over your car and see nothing unusual at all, then you go run a 12 second 1/4 or take the pylons faster than anyone thought possible. It's just cool to me.
Take most actual true race cars, paint them a normal colour, pull off the spoinsor logos, what do you see? Pretty normal looking car, that's what. The enginbeers that designed a cars lines etc, were not idiots, they actually know what works aerodynamicly etc. Good luck beating their 5 million dollar wind tunnel with some bolt on book shelves.. LOL
PAX
well i hear what rankin is talkin about, honestly i don't see the point in sleepers either, that civic he is talkin about is nothing but a pos! with some stupid honda engine under the hood....
but what you guys should also learn is cars a hobbies thats it, why don't some of you put that money into a house or something, something that at least holds VALUE!....
And here I thought this was an intelligent debate forum. Clearly half of you are barely reading my posts and just responding with your own rants. Perhaps if you read everything I wrote, I'd get a less hostile, more intelligent argumentive response. This is a F(@*&ING DISCUSSION! NOT A FLAME FEST!
I'm going on 20. You think my taste in music determines my intelligence level? Cute. I've actually been inside an engine compartment. It's my @!#$ job. I make the younger co-op and apprentice morons push the damn broom. Perhaps the reason my car registry is so lack-lustre is because I'm not swimming in money personally? Yes, just perhaps. Like any of you, I have a vision for my ride.. and it hardly invovles your stereotypical rice gear. So quick to shut me down, yet not quick enough to put reasoning behind your flaming.
And I hardly live under any supposed rock. I've intermixed with many modders here and there, I apologize for my generalities, but it seems the most of you are no better with yours towards me. This obsession with HP is almost childish to me. Okay, it's fun. It's fast. It's a @!#$ rush. Great. For the most part, my prejudices towards the sleeper style have not been disproven. Nor do half these replies seem to offer me any reason to change my thinking.
I appreciate some of the intelligent feedback, it's good to hear some of the more involved builds with these old muscle cars getting the right equipment to match their engines. I can honestly admit I haven't seen or heard much of real sleepers with proper equipment (street rods and muscle restorations don't exactly fit). I've hard of a few here and there involving J-bodies (Sweetness Sunfire, the V8 smallblock Chev Cavalier that went up on E-bay) but for the most part I just witness dumb kids obsessed with speed (no concern for anything else).
kidduntradishunal wrote:And here I thought this was an intelligent debate forum. Clearly half of you are barely reading my posts and just responding with your own rants. Perhaps if you read everything I wrote, I'd get a less hostile, more intelligent argumentive response. This is a F(@*&ING DISCUSSION! NOT A FLAME FEST!
I'm going on 20. You think my taste in music determines my intelligence level? Cute. I've actually been inside an engine compartment. It's my @!#$ job. I make the younger co-op and apprentice morons push the damn broom. Perhaps the reason my car registry is so lack-lustre is because I'm not swimming in money personally? Yes, just perhaps. Like any of you, I have a vision for my ride.. and it hardly invovles your stereotypical rice gear. So quick to shut me down, yet not quick enough to put reasoning behind your flaming.
And I hardly live under any supposed rock. I've intermixed with many modders here and there, I apologize for my generalities, but it seems the most of you are no better with yours towards me. This obsession with HP is almost childish to me. Okay, it's fun. It's fast. It's a @!#$ rush. Great. For the most part, my prejudices towards the sleeper style have not been disproven. Nor do half these replies seem to offer me any reason to change my thinking.
I appreciate some of the intelligent feedback, it's good to hear some of the more involved builds with these old muscle cars getting the right equipment to match their engines. I can honestly admit I haven't seen or heard much of real sleepers with proper equipment (street rods and muscle restorations don't exactly fit). I've hard of a few here and there involving J-bodies (Sweetness Sunfire, the V8 smallblock Chev Cavalier that went up on E-bay) but for the most part I just witness dumb kids obsessed with speed (no concern for anything else).
kidduntradishunal wrote:And here I thought this was an intelligent debate forum.
first mistake
kidduntradishunal wrote:Perhaps the reason my car registry is so lack-lustre is because I'm not swimming in money personally? Yes, just perhaps. Like any of you, I have a vision for my ride.. and it hardly invovles your stereotypical rice gear. So quick to shut me down, yet not quick enough to put reasoning behind your flaming.
So where is the "more money than most people pay for rent yearly" going to, it can't all be euro spec oils and lubricants? oh you must be comparing yourself to homeowners, yeah we don't pay rent so i guess your right.
kidduntradishunal wrote:I appreciate some of the intelligent feedback, it's good to hear some of the more involved builds with these old muscle cars getting the right equipment to match their engines. I can honestly admit I haven't seen or heard much of real sleepers with proper equipment (street rods and muscle restorations don't exactly fit). I've hard of a few here and there involving J-bodies (Sweetness Sunfire, the V8 smallblock Chev Cavalier that went up on E-bay) but for the most part I just witness dumb kids obsessed with speed (no concern for anything else).
for someone so concerned aboot the proper equipment i would like to compliment you on the awesome choice of your GR-2s and sportlines, also, great call on blacking out your headlights so those silverstars don't melt oncoming traffic. alert, you in the glass house, put the stones down, i repeat, put the stones down.
my car is very stock looking, IMHO, yet numerous times i have been asked how i like my sebring,
, and i let them know it's really a cavalier. yet i still love my lil vert.
go choke down another bottle of summer's eve before replying
One point i'd like to make.
Just because someone would be seriously modding their car for speed and power does not mean that they are driving like a teenage punk who's mommy and daddy bought them a viper (and yes, this is an assumption on the fact that a teenager who got a viper would drive it like they stole it, but it illustrates my point). They coulddrive them respobnsibly on the road and then open it up at the track--you know, where it's legal to go fast and they fully acknowledge that they can mess up and their car can be put into a state of disrepair.
It would be the same as saying anyone that mods their car ęstherically will drop words like, "mental HP" and assume that gaudiness = true speed or intimidation.
Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
sounds like alot of the horsepower posers on this site. except, the only sleeper thing about their car is that its a boring old car in the end and people fall asleep when you try to tell them about it.
kidduntradishunal wrote:For the most part, my prejudices towards the sleeper style have not been disproven.
Why DISPROVE your views when they haven't been PROVEN to begin with or even supported with anything more than your opinions and meaningless conjecture? That makes less than no sense at all. Did you get your logic out of a box of Cracker Jacks or what?
I've never heard of this "part throttle" before. Does it just bolt on?
Sunfire 2.2 wrote:sounds like alot of the horsepower posers on this site. except, the only sleeper thing about their car is that its a boring old car in the end and people fall asleep when you try to tell them about it.
Umm ok sure...
I've never heard of this "part throttle" before. Does it just bolt on?
Bastardking3000 wrote:Sunfire 2.2 wrote:sounds like alot of the horsepower posers on this site. except, the only sleeper thing about their car is that its a boring old car in the end and people fall asleep when you try to tell them about it.
Umm ok sure...
its ok. I know the truth hurts.
Sunfire 2.2 wrote:Bastardking3000 wrote:Sunfire 2.2 wrote:sounds like alot of the horsepower posers on this site. except, the only sleeper thing about their car is that its a boring old car in the end and people fall asleep when you try to tell them about it.
Umm ok sure...
its ok. I know the truth hurts.
this coming from someone driving a 2.2l sunfire
not all of us want to spend our money on 8 year old SUV's. You're better off buying a slot machine. at least you have a chance to make the money back with the slot machine whereas an 8 year old dodge will cost you more than its worth in the end.
