As you can see from the topic I am PROLIFE and I really hate the term PROCHOICE because it is PROMURDER.....lets keep it real. Don't make it sound nice and sugar coat it....call a ball a ball and a strike a strike!!! Once the sperm and the egg meet......this is where life begins.....if the egg and sperm don't connect.....there is no start of a new life. I just wanted to clear this up before someone says that some people have different opinions of when "life" actually takes place. Its really simple and black and white. As for a woman to have the right to a choice...I believe in that...she has the choice to keep her legs closed! Don't kill a helpless life because it will @!#$ up your life. If your not ready to deal with the responsibilities of your actions then maybe you shouldn't be having sex.
Now im not a far right wing nut, there are some instances where things happen that should leave the decision of abortion to the woman such as a rape victim, knowing a baby will be born without a brain and will die as soon as it is cut off...etc. These are exceptions to the rule and should be the womans choice.
My big problem is with all of these women who have sex without using protecting that is very available knowing that if they get pregnant they can just go have it killed...problem solved!!! Is this what our country has come to? Disposable plates, forks, knifes, paper towels and now human lives.
and then on top of that the ones that are opposed to war and the killing of innocent humans are the ones who think killing a baby is OK???
Pro-whatever the hell they want to. I'm not a woman, so that decision does not impact me in any way/shape/form.
i dont like the idea of abortion because it is a safety net for irresponsibility.
however i DO NOT IN ANY way agree that early early abortion is ANY form of murder.
when an egg is fertilized that is not life. that is common run of the mill cell reproduction/splitting.
it takes a LONG time for any of it to even resemble something that will be a life.
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the whole reason that this is still an "argument" is that people disagree when and where (what stage, how soon, etc) a lifeform forms. so that will always be discussed/argued. as for it not affecting you directly cuz your a male.... well, it does take two to make a baby! hahahah
What if your with a chick and you both want to have a baby. she gets pregnant, but then goes and gets an abortion. id imagine most would have a problem with that.
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Not me... its her choice, not mine. She's the one that has to carry the baby for 9 months...
If early,early,early, pregnancy isn't a life than why are you getting rid of it? Because it is life, thats why. People can hide behind the arguement of exactly "when" is it considered life all they want....this makes them feel better about killing a baby.
The reason I posted this was because I ran into a girl that had 3 abortions before she was 18 from high school the other day. She said that she and her husband were trying to have a baby but it just wasnt working????????....HELLO...you killed the first 3 maybe you should have kept one?
3... is a bit much. I certainly see a problem with that.
however, with the way the world is, I refuse to bring a new life into this world until I am married to a loving and caring woman, and emotionally, mentally, physically and financially stable to fully support a child.
I've known several women (girls at the time) that had abortions because they were in no position to be pregnant, let alone have one, and I fully supported them. (no, I was not the "father" either)
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“When you come across a big kettle of crazy, it’s best not to stir it.”
Wiezer Walley wrote:If early,early,early, pregnancy isn't a life than why are you getting rid of it? Because it is life, thats why. People can hide behind the arguement of exactly "when" is it considered life all they want....this makes them feel better about killing a baby.
The reason I posted this was because I ran into a girl that had 3 abortions before she was 18 from high school the other day. She said that she and her husband were trying to have a baby but it just wasnt working????????....HELLO...you killed the first 3 maybe you should have kept one?
ok how about you stop jacking off then. your killing all your sperms. which IS life.
ALL cells are LIFE if you want to start getting nitty gritty on it.
the thing thats different about a fertilized egg is that when it is splitting its cells through mitosis instead of makgin cells to be used in your own body it makes them in a different arrangement with different instructions to get get used in yo body and to START trying to make the basic formations neded to start making an offspring.
fact is tho, they are just cells. the are reforming reproducing splitting etc because that is how cell reproduction works, NOT because they have some kind of "life" in them. all the cells in your body do pretty much the same thing 24hrs a day to reproduce cels that are dieing off.
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Ok...the title of this is bull@!#$, I'm not in favor of abortion, but to call it pro-murder is just ignorant
I think there is a time and a place where abortion is right and just, and there are times when it is not.
I feel that if the woman was the victim of rape, incest, or the child could kill the mother, then remove it.
Otherwise, well...you should have been smarter.
It's called personal responsibility, and people are to used to pointing the finger at others, rather then themselves for their screw ups.
Ok...duh......everything is "life" but until the two (egg spem) meet there WILL NOT BE A BABY!! I guess I should explain everything to the very last point because I should have know some smart ass would correct me. Yes we have millions of living cells in our bodies...but we are talking about what makes a baby......a human life.
As for not bringing a baby into the world without being set in life.....Ok....dont have sex or wrap it up... rubbers, pills all kinds of stuff if your that set in doing the "nest building" think which im 100% for. As stated above personal responsibility! Take control of your life and dont take mother natures duties into your own hands. IMO, if I were to shoot someone and kill them I would go to jail or death. Same should go for these women who think human life is disposable. Its really sick if you think about it. Just because society accepts it doesnt mean its right. Thank God 3rd Trimester abortions have been made illegal........thats just sick!
Wiezer Walley wrote:Just because society accepts it doesnt mean its right.
and just because you don't doesn't make it wrong.
Desert Tuners
“When you come across a big kettle of crazy, it’s best not to stir it.”
My opinion is.....
If you are smart enough to have unprotected/ unsafe sex, then they are smart enough to have a kid.
On another note; Rape (along with a police report to document it as a real rape) or harm to either the parent/ baby, should be allowed.
If you fear you may become pregnant there is always the "Morning After" pill. That to me isnt really abortion.
I guess its really how you determind what is abortion. To me abortion is waiting till your 2.5-3mo before you go in. You have a baby inside you for christ sake!
Its time people start taking responsibility for their actions.
Just my 2 cents
-Brandon
I was pro-choice until my own child was born. I don't think anyone who has not been through the process should voice an opinion. In reality you have no idea what it's all about until you have been down that road.
Sex is an act of creation and all creation is sacred. It may not look like a human, but it is. Not all things are created in their final form.. Just as you are not what you were 15 years ago.
That said I am also a big advocate for personal feedoms. I cannot tell someone else what they can and cannot do with their bodies. I feel the unborn should have a right to life, but that argument is lost long ago.
I would not legislate again abortion as that only serves to drive it underground and more people get hurt. I would like to see a cure for the social problems that lead to abortion, but that is a big order.
My child was given up for adoption because we could not care for ourselves let alone a child. I feel good knowing that she is out there alive. I wanted her aborted and I feel sick for even thinking that way. You really must see your own child born, it's a life changing experience. Giving her up was the hardest thing ever, and it still hurts (it was 1991), but I know that she lives and that gives me comfort.
Tough issue to be sure. I wish it wasn't even up for debate.
PAX
Wiezer Walley, for starters your choice of title for this is pure ignorance, as was stated above. The world today sucks because of people like you, you impose your will and your way of thinking on other people weather they like it or not. This topic for me is not about weather it is murder or not. It's about the FREEDOM to choose, plain and simple. Taking away someones rights to choose what is best for them in Communism plain and simple. So yes I do believe you are a Communist. I would never condone abortion, I think it is wrong but I would never force my beliefs on someone else. Let them do what they feel is best, not what I feel is best for them. If anyone wants to have an abortion thats fine, I do not have to live with the consequences, it's not my body or my child and I will not be the one who has to face God and explain why I had an abortion.
People like you is the downfall of society, if someone does not believe like you do they in your eyes are wrong, that is as close minded as one can get. You are the epitome of bigotry, racism, hate and ignorance. You are free to do as you want so why would you want to control other people that you don't even know. In my eyes as I said before are Communist and you must think that you know what is wrong with the masses so you wish to control and make them do what you believe, not what they believe. You need to open your mind and let others be free to have their own beliefs and live their lives the way they want to, just as you are free to do the same. You need to see the big picture here and quit being a waste of oxygen.
KevinP (Stabby McShankyou) wrote:
and I'm NOT a pedo. everyone knows i've got a wheelchair fetish.
My take:
Start out with 2 facts:
Life doesn't begin at conception, or birth, it began, on earth at least, by our best guesstimates, about 3.5 billion years ago. Even if you take a rather dogmatic view, that still put it around 6000 years ago. There is no "new" life, just transmutations of existing life.
That being said, life isn't sacred either. to quote Carlin, "if everything that ever lived has dies, and everything that is liveing and will live will die, then where does the sacred part come in?"
Taking those two into context, and the fact that pregnancy is parasitic by nature in viviparous creatures (of which we are one), i don't see what all the fuss is about.
However, i don't see it as an excuse for lack of responsibility. I more see it that if you have a "contraceptive" abortion you and the father should be sterilized because it's obvious you can't handle the complexities and nuances of human reproduction, and we really don't want you polluting the already toxic genepool. Abortions for heath and rapes, that i can stand by.
I will say this: any "pro-life" person that kills a doctor (re: aborts a child in the 15th trimester) needs to be dragged out in the street and shot. I can't get behind that kind of hypocrisy.
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kind of off topic, but I run an abortion clinic " widelitz abortions: you make em we scrape emm" were actually kind of low on business at the moment.
I really dont see what all the fuss is about people come in we run a scrape procedure, and there out. its not a big deal were actually trying to have the law changed to make abortions legal in the second trimester. the only thing is that some times there is actual life during the abort, sO we end up having to "end" it. are meathods are actually getting pretty creative, but our main idea is just to throw them into a bin.
"
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My only caveat is that it shouldn't be illegal beacause this is primarily a religious and cultural debate. Many religions view killing a child as just sending the spirit away in full confidence that it will come back again when they are ready to take care of it.
Who is to sayt that there wrong?
Wiezer Walley wrote:Now im not a far right wing nut, there are some instances where things happen that should leave the decision of abortion to the woman such as a rape victim, knowing a baby will be born without a brain and will die as soon as it is cut off...etc. These are exceptions to the rule and should be the womans choice.
Don't set a double standard. Because if your allowing exceptions that makes it pro-choice, the fetus from a rape is no less a fetus than that of irresponsible sex or consentual choice.
I'm Pro-choice because Its not my call unless I had direct involvement of the said fertilization.
-Chris
Jack Mehoff [Harrington wrote:] This topic for me is not about weather it is murder or not. It's about the FREEDOM to choose, plain and simple.
.Let them do what they feel is best, not what I feel is best for them. If anyone wants to have an abortion thats fine, I do not have to live with the consequences, it's not my body or my child and I will not be the one who has to face God and explain why I had an abortion.
People like you is the downfall of society, if someone does not believe like you do they in your eyes are wrong, that is as close minded as one can get. You are the epitome of bigotry, racism, hate and ignorance. You are free to do as you want so why would you want to control other people that you don't even know.
Well said. But your arguement is flawed...where does society draw the line on freedom. If someone wants to shoot you in the head, yea they have to live with the consequences, but if the law steps in, you are tempering with FREEDOM. It sounds really silly, but either extreme is no good.
Maybe its ok to kill your kid when its three years old and you can't handle it? Maybe its ok to kill your kid when its got six months before its born and you can't handle it. How about if four out of five babies born are medically rendered incapable of reproducing at birth so that this isn't an issue anymore?
Maybe that child that was born because of prochoice efforts is now sapping my paycheck because of welfare and other social support. That's where I draw the line, when someone elses mistake directly affects me. It's similar to car insurance rates; @!#$ driver runs into me and my rates go up...if it was my call I would blow up all car insurance agencies...but that's another topic.
This argument is old and @!#$ overdone. Seriously nice title, It shows how @!#$ immature and stupid you are.
Your whole @!#$ post is ignorant. You act like abortion is used for sluts who cant keep there legs closed and wont use protection. SOMETIMES ACCIDENTS HAPPEN.
Idiot...
i am pro-mindyourown@!#$inbusiness
worry about yourself and no one else.
Rosario wrote:This argument is old and @!#$ overdone. Seriously nice title, It shows how @!#$ immature and stupid you are.
Your whole @!#$ post is ignorant. You act like abortion is used for sluts who cant keep there legs closed and wont use protection. SOMETIMES ACCIDENTS HAPPEN.
Idiot...
Wow. Hypocrisy at it's finest. Your ranting at him for being immature?
Children aren't accidents, FYI. With the plethora of contraceptives, and the ability of them in the US, "accidents" shouldn't happen. If at least the woman is on birth control, whats the chance she will get pregnant? 1 in a hundred maybe? If you want to say, well I am allergic to condoms, or birth control, the reality is that, that is a small portion of people out there, and a majority of those who decide to be frequently sexually active with multiple partners, you have no excuse to not make sure you have contraceptives/safe sex. If your having sex with someone you just met, and you don't use a condom, that's just silly. It isn't an accident, you are being irresponsible, in more ways then one.
It goes beyond how wrong abortion is, to the fact that there is no value placed on sex anymore. It is supposed to be between two people who love each other, not that chick you pick up in a bar a few weeks ago. Or the freshman at a college rave. It is the fact that the lack of respect has been given to a act that was supposed to mean something. Abortion is another example of the people wanting the government to be responsible for their wrong actions. Give me Social Security, I can't be responsible to save for my future (I can, but I can't opt out of it, and I won't see any of what I am putting into it, how fair is that?) Teach my kids sex ed, and how to be an adult, because I can't be a responsible parent.
It is no longer believed that people should be responsible for their own actions. Look at all the frivolous law suits out there. If all abortions were truley accidents rather than people not being responsible for their actions, this still would be at the place before Roe v. Wade, stuck in a gutter, with a majority of people thinking it is something disgusting. Yet a movement comes along that preaches, Women have a choice! Absolutley they have a choice. They have a choice to not have sex, the have a choice to use contraceptives, (and before somebody else says it, even though it is a step from the "preaching" I am doing, the have a choice to take it IDB.)
Those who do not have a choice, ie, rape victims, who become pregnant are a slim margin of people, and not grounds for people to maintain that they have the right to "chose" because of it. Rape is disgusting and horrible. It may be the only reason I would allow a clause to be inacted to let abortion slide. But the flip side to that is, How many people will just claimed that they are raped instead? and because somebody has violated you, does it give you the right to take an innocent life? These are the gray areas, not the right to chose, not when does life begin. Clearly life begins at conception. And egg and a sperm are an egg and a sperm, combining the two is the start of human life.
In addition to this, the people I know and have talked to, without me bringing up the subject, and without me going to an anti abortion rally or whatever, feel horrible about it. Some still acknowledge the childs presumed presumed birthdate, 30 years after it happened. It isn't for some people, something that goes lightly. It is a choice that they will have to live with for the est of their life. It is a terrible thing to have to remember, to know that you could have given the gift of life, and choose to destroy it instead.
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This argument is old and @!#$ overdone. Seriously nice title, It shows how @!#$ immature and stupid you are.
Your whole @!#$ post is ignorant. You act like abortion is used for sluts who cant keep there legs closed and wont use protection. SOMETIMES ACCIDENTS HAPPEN.
Idiot...
Accidents dont happen if you take proper precautions!
Ummmm...yeah, they do.
BC and Condoms arent 100% Effective
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Wow. Hypocrisy at it's finest. Your ranting at him for being immature?
Yeah, the title was tottally uncalled for.
Quote:
Children aren't accidents, FYI. With the plethora of contraceptives, and the ability of them in the US, "accidents" shouldn't happen. If at least the woman is on birth control, whats the chance she will get pregnant? 1 in a hundred maybe? If you want to say, well I am allergic to condoms, or birth control, the reality is that, that is a small portion of people out there, and a majority of those who decide to be frequently sexually active with multiple partners, you have no excuse to not make sure you have contraceptives/safe sex. If your having sex with someone you just met, and you don't use a condom, that's just silly. It isn't an accident, you are being irresponsible, in more ways then one.
Um, there not 100% effective. Children can be an accident. If you get pregnant, and you didnt mean to, then it would be....yep you guess it an accident.
Quote:
It goes beyond how wrong abortion is, to the fact that there is no value placed on sex anymore. It is supposed to be between two people who love each other, not that chick you pick up in a bar a few weeks ago. Or the freshman at a college rave. It is the fact that the lack of respect has been given to a act that was supposed to mean something. Abortion is another example of the people wanting the government to be responsible for their wrong actions. Give me Social Security, I can't be responsible to save for my future (I can, but I can't opt out of it, and I won't see any of what I am putting into it, how fair is that?) Teach my kids sex ed, and how to be an adult, because I can't be a responsible parent.
Thats your opinion, doesnt make it right.
Quote:
It is no longer believed that people should be responsible for their own actions. Look at all the frivolous law suits out there. If all abortions were truley accidents rather than people not being responsible for their actions, this still would be at the place before Roe v. Wade, stuck in a gutter, with a majority of people thinking it is something disgusting. Yet a movement comes along that preaches, Women have a choice! Absolutley they have a choice. They have a choice to not have sex, the have a choice to use contraceptives, (and before somebody else says it, even though it is a step from the "preaching" I am doing, the have a choice to take it IDB.)
Haha im not arguing with that
Quote:
Those who do not have a choice, ie, rape victims, who become pregnant are a slim margin of people, and not grounds for people to maintain that they have the right to "chose" because of it. Rape is disgusting and horrible. It may be the only reason I would allow a clause to be inacted to let abortion slide. But the flip side to that is, How many people will just claimed that they are raped instead? and because somebody has violated you, does it give you the right to take an innocent life? These are the gray areas, not the right to chose, not when does life begin. Clearly life begins at conception. And egg and a sperm are an egg and a sperm, combining the two is the start of human life.
Again that your opinion....
Quote:
In addition to this, the people I know and have talked to, without me bringing up the subject, and without me going to an anti abortion rally or whatever, feel horrible about it. Some still acknowledge the childs presumed presumed birthdate, 30 years after it happened. It isn't for some people, something that goes lightly. It is a choice that they will have to live with for the est of their life. It is a terrible thing to have to remember, to know that you could have given the gift of life, and choose to destroy it instead.
I know many who feel the same way.
Anyways, you guys don't even know my view on abortion. You can guess if you want. But you prolly will guess wrong. I wasn't going against him because of his view, it was because of how he put it. This title is @!#$ up and the way he talks is retarded. Unlike you emort, he didn't make his post seem intelligent....
Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, November 07, 2006 3:11 PM
