It is a fact that GM will file bankrupty.
They will file the same way Delphi ( makes parts for GM like fuel injectors) did.
24 hours before Delphi filed for bankrupty, they secured the retirement and salary of the upper management. When Delphi filed, all union contacts are null and void. Currently workes making $20/hour must take a 50% pay cut, or leave, that is the only option.
GM will do the same on a Sunday night. They are going to secure the upper management salaries, and retirement. They will then file the next day, all union contracts are then null and void. GM workes will have to take a severe pay cut, or leave.
By the way dont come on here and say GM has $19 billion in cash and liquid securites. Look at who is saying that, the CEO of GM himself is saying it.
Sorry folks but GM is going under.
If you have stocks in GM, the time to get out is NOW.
- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new
aaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh no
maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow....... but some day
Yea, it could happen. Companies do restructure under bankruptcy and it could hurt them a while but I think they will work it out hard through 2006 and they won't negotiate with the UAW when the contracts expire.
Rob S wrote:It is a fact that GM will file bankrupty.
They will file the same way Delphi ( makes parts for GM like fuel injectors) did.
24 hours before Delphi filed for bankrupty, they secured the retirement and salary of the upper management. When Delphi filed, all union contacts are null and void. Currently workes making $20/hour must take a 50% pay cut, or leave, that is the only option.
GM will do the same on a Sunday night. They are going to secure the upper management salaries, and retirement. They will then file the next day, all union contracts are then null and void. GM workes will have to take a severe pay cut, or leave.
By the way dont come on here and say GM has $19 billion in cash and liquid securites. Look at who is saying that, the CEO of GM himself is saying it.
Sorry folks but GM is going under.
If you have stocks in GM, the time to get out is NOW.
So what else did your crystal ball tell you? How long will the restructuring take? What will happen to the price of the other domestic auto manufacturers? Will Brad and Jen get back together? Tell us. Inquiring minds want to know.
its called the government. gm is to big in north america to go under. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.
maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow....... but some day
yep, as everyone is saying, GM is to big for the government to let go under.
but i do all the workers get "screwed" and take a 50% pay cut. Because in todays global market, we just can not afford to pay these prices and expect to stay in business.
Promise that forever we will never get better at growing up and learning to lie
While GM filing for bancrupcy does seem to be inevitable, the idea of them actually "going out of business" is doubtful. GM will have a rough future. And continued loss of their world market share doesn't help that notion. But I highly doubt that they are going anywhere. It will most likely end up as a large ploy to get out paying all the health benifits and pensions that they are obligated to pay.
1998 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
1994 Chevrolet Blazer Tahoe LT
1994 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera S
1994 Pontiac Sunbird SE
they should simply fire everyone, and re-hire them without the stupid unions and pay them what they actually deserve for their undeducated, low-iq jobs. 8.50/hr should be about right.
They can't do that under the terms of a union contract... Not without serious reprisals IIRC.
They have to give just cause regarding the firing of workers.
And paying a subsistance wage isn't a way to increase worker satisfaction, Crappy pay = crappy work... Garbage in = garbage out.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
the workers do NOT do anything that should entitle them to what they currently make. they have NO skills, need NO education, and do the same thing over and over and over and over.... monkeys could do their job.
the unions are the problem.. plain and simple, and if the only way to get rid of them is to fire everybody! i think thats reason enough. honestly... one of the reasons the company is going to the crapper is a direct result of employee wages and benefits. reducing those costs is just as important as bringing out quality products.
Ya, it has nothing to do with being outsold by everyone else. Foreign incursion etc...
The fact is robots could help GM but they have some product and marketing work to do if they want to survive, plain and simple.
Ford and Chryco both have the same wage and benefit problems. While they're not swimming in a sea of cash either, they are not in the trouble GM is for one reason. Sales.
PAX
Hahahaha wrote:Ya, it has nothing to do with being outsold by everyone else. Foreign incursion etc...
The fact is robots could help GM but they have some product and marketing work to do if they want to survive, plain and simple.
Ford and Chryco both have the same wage and benefit problems. While they're not swimming in a sea of cash either, they are not in the trouble GM is for one reason. Sales.
PAX
You are on a ROLL today....
GM sells more cars than both Ford and DC. Hell, Chevy Division outsold Ford this past year. GM, Ford and DC all have unique contracts with the useless UAW. Ford isn't far behind Gm as far as money issues go, FYI.
GM got managed into the ground...
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
So is this due to happen this sunday or just some random sunday whenever ?
But I agree get rid of the union and watch GM won't be in trouble anymore.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Jackalope wrote:So is this due to happen this sunday or just some random sunday whenever ?
But I agree get rid of the union and watch GM won't be in trouble anymore.
The person I got my information from didnt give a specific date, but yes by the end of this year it will happen.
- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new
your source is a moron !!
Jackalope wrote:So is this due to happen this sunday or just some random sunday whenever ?
But I agree get rid of the union and watch GM won't be in trouble anymore.
/\/\ Disagree.. Unless they fire the engineers too. I've read through the maintenance forums here, how many problems could be attributed to bad assembly compaired to bad engineering? (btw, I still have a rough idle in my sunfire after spending over $1400 in replacement parts...)
Hopefully this bankruptcy will be a wake-up call to GM to design a better quality vehicle.
John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
blurred wrote:the workers do NOT do anything that should entitle them to what they currently make. they have NO skills, need NO education, and do the same thing over and over and over and over.... monkeys could do their job.
the unions are the problem.. plain and simple, and if the only way to get rid of them is to fire everybody! i think thats reason enough. honestly... one of the reasons the company is going to the crapper is a direct result of employee wages and benefits. reducing those costs is just as important as bringing out quality products.
I'm sick of hearing people judge what people should and shouldn't make. You don't know what the people do day in and day out, you don't know how stressful of a job is. Just because they aren't college educated doesn't mean they don't work hard and don't have any skills. There are plenty of jobs that some people do that even with an college education, you wouldn't be able to do. Not everything in the work place takes 4 years of education in order to do it...sometimes it takes alot of "grit" to put up with some of their jobs.
Saying simply monkeys could do their job...that's far fetched. There are people who are making $20 because they have been there so long and have paid their dues and work hard for their money.
Take myself for example....to someone outside of my job, it might look like I sit online all night and am bored most of the time BUT there is more behind it...I know what my job is, I do my job correctly, I am 100% reliable and if there is any type of emergency I am well knowledged to handle the situation...and yes I have no college degree. If someone who doesn't do my job or even worse doesn't work in the same facility as me came and told me I don't deserve what I make evidentally is ignorant... the only person who can tell me that is my employer. Same theory applies to the workers of GM.
And GAM is 100% correct....how much people make reflect how hard and how well they work. I know for example of people who make little amounts of money here and treat their job like crap...they don't come into work or if they do, they are constantly late, they don't care if they screw up and don't care about management. So yes, I'd like for them to get paid well so my motor doesn't fall out my engine bay because my motor mounts weren't installed correctly cause Bobby feels he should get paid more and is pissed.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
Well said....
1998 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
1994 Chevrolet Blazer Tahoe LT
1994 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera S
1994 Pontiac Sunbird SE
I agree with what you're saying; anyone who does any job where skill is required(such as yours), and does a good job at the task, deserves good pay, regardless of where those skills were picked up.
However, meanial, low skill tasks tasks - things equivalent to placing a fabric cover on a seat - do NOT deserve the type of wages some of these people are hauling in. These tasks COULD be done by monkeys, robots, street bums working for liquor, etc.
Case in point: The first time I went to college(Aircraft Structural Repair), a guy in my class had previously worked in Ontario(Oshawa I believe?). He did a completely retarded, trivial task over and over. And made $24/hr.
He now fixes passenger aircraft, which will carry 400+ people across the Atlantic - a highly skilled trade, that also requires a high degree of intelligence and technical prowess, not to mention the liability. He makes $15.45 (And NO, he wouldn't make more in another part of the country... two classmates make $12/hr in calgary, everywhere else is similar).
"i promise we won't get drunk, and go out in boat in the dark, stand up in the boat and fire the gun into the air unless we have life jackets on."
I agree with what you're saying; anyone who does any job where skill is required(such as yours), and does a good job at the task, deserves good pay, regardless of where those skills were picked up.
However, meanial, low skill tasks tasks - things equivalent to placing a fabric cover on a seat - do NOT deserve the type of wages some of these people are hauling in. These tasks COULD be done by monkeys, robots, street bums working for liquor, etc.
Case in point: The first time I went to college(Aircraft Structural Repair), a guy in my class had previously worked in Ontario(Oshawa I believe?). He did a completely retarded, trivial task over and over. And made $24/hr.
He now fixes passenger aircraft, which will carry 400+ people across the Atlantic - a highly skilled trade, that also requires a high degree of intelligence and technical prowess, not to mention the liability. He makes $15.45 (And NO, he wouldn't make more in another part of the country... two classmates make $12/hr in calgary, everywhere else is similar).
"i promise we won't get drunk, and go out in boat in the dark, stand up in the boat and fire the gun into the air unless we have life jackets on."
NJHK (The JBO Negro) wrote:blurred wrote:the workers do NOT do anything that should entitle them to what they currently make. they have NO skills, need NO education, and do the same thing over and over and over and over.... monkeys could do their job.
the unions are the problem.. plain and simple, and if the only way to get rid of them is to fire everybody! i think thats reason enough. honestly... one of the reasons the company is going to the crapper is a direct result of employee wages and benefits. reducing those costs is just as important as bringing out quality products.
I'm sick of hearing people judge what people should and shouldn't make. You don't know what the people do day in and day out, you don't know how stressful of a job is. Just because they aren't college educated doesn't mean they don't work hard and don't have any skills. There are plenty of jobs that some people do that even with an college education, you wouldn't be able to do. Not everything in the work place takes 4 years of education in order to do it...sometimes it takes alot of "grit" to put up with some of their jobs.
Saying simply monkeys could do their job...that's far fetched. There are people who are making $20 because they have been there so long and have paid their dues and work hard for their money.
Take myself for example....to someone outside of my job, it might look like I sit online all night and am bored most of the time BUT there is more behind it...I know what my job is, I do my job correctly, I am 100% reliable and if there is any type of emergency I am well knowledged to handle the situation...and yes I have no college degree. If someone who doesn't do my job or even worse doesn't work in the same facility as me came and told me I don't deserve what I make evidentally is ignorant... the only person who can tell me that is my employer. Same theory applies to the workers of GM.
And GAM is 100% correct....how much people make reflect how hard and how well they work. I know for example of people who make little amounts of money here and treat their job like crap...they don't come into work or if they do, they are constantly late, they don't care if they screw up and don't care about management. So yes, I'd like for them to get paid well so my motor doesn't fall out my engine bay because my motor mounts weren't installed correctly cause Bobby feels he should get paid more and is pissed.
you are generally wrong. they all receive raises because of their contract. whether they do a good job or not.
an example of the salary at the oshawa gm plant thats closing.
1 guy in the paint booth makes 40k cdn. that is an important job running the painting process and they must know quite a bit about the process, chemicals, etc.... 40k is deserved.
1 guy makes 70k cdn for driving the cars off of the line and into a parking lot. need i say more? how does anyone deserve 70 grand for being a fucikng valet? how about minimum wage. thats appropriate.
but thanks to the bloody unions, this guy has been there for 25 years and somehow makes 70g's for doing a bulli@!#$ job.
sitting on an assembly line, doing ANYTHING is not worth more than 10 bucks an hour. all you need to learn is ONE FREAKING TASK. you are NOT worth a large wage.
blurred wrote:NJHK (The JBO Negro) wrote:blurred wrote:the workers do NOT do anything that should entitle them to what they currently make. they have NO skills, need NO education, and do the same thing over and over and over and over.... monkeys could do their job.
the unions are the problem.. plain and simple, and if the only way to get rid of them is to fire everybody! i think thats reason enough. honestly... one of the reasons the company is going to the crapper is a direct result of employee wages and benefits. reducing those costs is just as important as bringing out quality products.
I'm sick of hearing people judge what people should and shouldn't make. You don't know what the people do day in and day out, you don't know how stressful of a job is. Just because they aren't college educated doesn't mean they don't work hard and don't have any skills. There are plenty of jobs that some people do that even with an college education, you wouldn't be able to do. Not everything in the work place takes 4 years of education in order to do it...sometimes it takes alot of "grit" to put up with some of their jobs.
Saying simply monkeys could do their job...that's far fetched. There are people who are making $20 because they have been there so long and have paid their dues and work hard for their money.
Take myself for example....to someone outside of my job, it might look like I sit online all night and am bored most of the time BUT there is more behind it...I know what my job is, I do my job correctly, I am 100% reliable and if there is any type of emergency I am well knowledged to handle the situation...and yes I have no college degree. If someone who doesn't do my job or even worse doesn't work in the same facility as me came and told me I don't deserve what I make evidentally is ignorant... the only person who can tell me that is my employer. Same theory applies to the workers of GM.
And GAM is 100% correct....how much people make reflect how hard and how well they work. I know for example of people who make little amounts of money here and treat their job like crap...they don't come into work or if they do, they are constantly late, they don't care if they screw up and don't care about management. So yes, I'd like for them to get paid well so my motor doesn't fall out my engine bay because my motor mounts weren't installed correctly cause Bobby feels he should get paid more and is pissed.
you are generally wrong. they all receive raises because of their contract. whether they do a good job or not.
an example of the salary at the oshawa gm plant thats closing.
1 guy in the paint booth makes 40k cdn. that is an important job running the painting process and they must know quite a bit about the process, chemicals, etc.... 40k is deserved.
1 guy makes 70k cdn for driving the cars off of the line and into a parking lot. need i say more? how does anyone deserve 70 grand for being a fucikng valet? how about minimum wage. thats appropriate.
but thanks to the bloody unions, this guy has been there for 25 years and somehow makes 70g's for doing a bulli@!#$ job.
sitting on an assembly line, doing ANYTHING is not worth more than 10 bucks an hour. all you need to learn is ONE FREAKING TASK. you are NOT worth a large wage.
Yeah, that seems a bit off...I can understand your argument then.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
Do you not get that each assembly line cranks out 2-3 different lines?
The blue-collar pay isn't the problem (the employee base has been down-sizing for about 10 years), what about the people managing the company to hell, and getting paid contracts, Stock options (without the same constraints as full employees), and million dollar annual stipends?
Being penny wise and pound foolish, much?
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
