Christmas should not be a holiday.
Why celebrate a person's birth when according to the bible, they were born in March?
1. no one knows the exact date
2. Late december was picked because it went along with some pegan holiday. So it would be easier for people to convert.
Promise that forever we will never get better at growing up and learning to lie
El Fuego ( the unstable ) wrote:Christmas should not be a holiday.
Why celebrate a person's birth when according to the bible, they were born in March?
Where?! If it says March in the Bible I'll eat my copies.
All the best calculations put the birth of Christ somewhere late in the year, likely September possibly early October. Nobody is 100% certain.
About Christmas though..
Why are we not getting upset over a Christmas tree being called a "Holiday Tree"?
First off, who could possibly be offended by the name "Christmas tree"? If they object to Christmas decor, changing the name won't change anything really.
Second.. Should we rename a Menorah a "Holiday Candle" or how about we call Ramadan "Holiday fast"?
Am I offended when I see a star of David or a girl wearing a hijab? No.. Is it reasonable to think that people would be offended by the sight of a "Christmas" anything? Well no.. They'll just ignore our silly traditions like they've been doing for the last few decades. Thoughts?
PAX
All holidays are made up anyway but no ones getting upset about Thanksgiving or
The 4th of July. And the reason it was made December 25th is so that it was easier for the church to convert pagans to Christianity when they were shown holidays that paralleled the ones they already had. Why do you think they had all those saints? Because the old pagan ways had them praying to all sorts of Gods well now they can pray to the saints that were related to the same things that the old Gods represented.
You guys should realize that the Catholic church dd all sorts of under handed sneaky things including re-writing the bible and adding or leaving out parts that they didn't like or that went against the churches teachings of the moment.
Don't complain just enjoy the day off.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Christians alligned their holidays with pagan ones to avoid being killed, not to convert. The Roman empire was quite hostile towards Christians for the first 300 years, by celebrating Christmas at the same time as the winter solstace they would not stand out from pagans and their Christian celebration could go unnoticed.
Thanksgiving is apporpriately at haverst time (Canada's date is a little better placed, but the US's date makes sense too as the storage would be just finishing). The forth of July celebrates an event that occured on the forth of July.. So what's "Made up" about them?
There were dark times in the Christian church but the Bible of today is not altered. The bits left out are those of questionable origin. Many talk about the Gospel of Thomas being left out but if you look at the scrolls they have obviously been tampered with and therefore cannot be trusted, that is why it was left out.
Rational investigation usually leads to rational answers.
PAX
Yes but they still are made up holidays. We made up all the holidays not just this one.
Now as for how the bible is in fact altered. Thats easy when you hear the name Mary Magdalene what do you instantly think? WHORE. Well please show me where it actually says that in the bible. It never does but waaay back in the church a certain
pope ( can't remember his name sorry ) concluded that she was and from then on she was a whore. Also new translations of the 10 commandments show that it actually should have read " Thall shall not do murder unto another" Not "Thall shall not kill"
also it was to have said "Thall shall not steal another person" Not " Thall shall not steal". Think about the true translations and tell me if you can see a difference.
Murder is way different then killing. And to not steal a person, kidnap. Makes better sence I mean why would God care for material objects? Those are just some of the many, many ways the Vatican has changed around the bibles meaning and you don't think that their are more? The bible has been translated and re-written so many times over the past 2000 years that we're lucky its even called the bible anymore.
In case you doubt any of these claims all you need do is watch mysteries of the bible on the history channel and go on line and read what the current experts have to say.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Hahahaha: Question, Have you acquainted yourself with the Council of Nicea? Where a Pagan emperor and council decided on the content of the bible, what to include and what not to include, and the exact contents of remainder?
What about the discovery of the Gnostic Gospels in a silver field, buried with remnants of other gospel books?
I'm interested... seriously.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
You know the one thing that really pisses me off? The whole major shopping center bans of the word Christmas. I believe that Target, K-Mart, and a few others have completely taken the word Christmas out of their advertising this year at the complaint of a few atheists. Doesn't that kinda strike anyone as wrong? The retailers completely thrive off of the holiday buying sales, yet refuse to recognize the title that started it all?
I know that their is a petition going around that you can sign if you do not agree with the ban at all. If anyone wants the link, post and I'll go look it up.
ShiftyCav wrote:thats probably the dumbest thing i have ever heard. you should take that serpentine belt and wrap it around your neck.
joe pennell wrote:You know the one thing that really pisses me off? The whole major shopping center bans of the word Christmas. I believe that Target, K-Mart, and a few others have completely taken the word Christmas out of their advertising this year at the complaint of a few atheists. Doesn't that kinda strike anyone as wrong? The retailers completely thrive off of the holiday buying sales, yet refuse to recognize the title that started it all?
I know that their is a petition going around that you can sign if you do not agree with the ban at all. If anyone wants the link, post and I'll go look it up.
its not just atheists, think if you were a jew and everything was all about christmas, wouldn't you be a little angry that haunaka wasnt even mentioned, i for one am all for calling it the holiday season and all that stuff, or just getting rid of all these dumb holidays, i hate christmas and easter and especially thanksgiving. the only holidays i like are the 4th of july, memorial day and veterans day
You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan
(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)
No love for Kwanzaa??
C'mon man...
Okay, seriously, I don't have a problem with people not calling it Christmas... Do what you like. I do most of my Christmas shopping in July at home online, anyhow.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
I don't see how anybody could hate Christmas.
I hate how all the stores have bastardized it into a huge shopping spree. The Christmas (kwaanza, hannukah, etc.) season is supposed to be full of cheer but instead to most people visions of long lines in stores, crowded parking lots, and maxed out credit cards are all that come to mind.
I like Christmas. It's a good time to spend time with your family, a good time to be cheerful, and a good time to celebrate the birth of Christ, even if that's when he wasn't born (if you are athiest, then forget the celebration part).
I think some people just love to think of ways to dislike things that are even remotely faith-related.
yeah i agree, im not religous in the least, a fan of most sins and most deffinetly would be going to hell if its what i believed, but I like to celebrate christmas as a cultural holiday, skip all the religous crap and get to the spirit of giving, and family cheer. Mmm thats good times.
ok, i meant i hate what christmas has become.....just another excuse to suck money out of you, my family isnt big on gift giving, we give gifts to the kids, but thats it, for the adults its a time for all of us to come together and enjoy each other. but most people just see christmas as a gimme gimme thing and just want to get a bunch of crap from other people. its lost any fomer meaning it may have had
You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan
(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)
Mike: that's why growing up without a lot of money is a real education.
I get my folks about $50 worth of stuff, and I tell them to just donate whatever they were going to give me to a charity (I prefer Alzheimers and Cancer charities). They get a tax break, and I know they're not dumping money on me for junk I'll probably never use.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:Hahahaha: Question, Have you acquainted yourself with the Council of Nicea? Where a Pagan emperor and council decided on the content of the bible, what to include and what not to include, and the exact contents of remainder?
What about the discovery of the Gnostic Gospels in a silver field, buried with remnants of other gospel books?
I'm interested... seriously.
Umm Kinda.. From Newadvent
Quote:
First Ecumenical Council of the Catholic Church, held in 325 on the occasion of the heresy of Arius (Arianism). As early as 320 or 321 St. Alexander, Bishop of Alexandria, convoked a council at Alexandria at which more than one hundred bishops from Egypt and Libya anathematized Arius. The latter continued to officiate in his church and to recruit followers. Being finally driven out, he went to Palestine and from there to Nicomedia. During this time St. Alexander published his "Epistola encyclica", to which Arius replied; but henceforth it was evident that the quarrel had gone beyond the possibility of human control. Sozomen even speaks of a Council of Bithynia which addressed an encyclical to all the bishops asking them to receive the Arians into the communion of the Church. This discord, and the war which soon broke out between Constantine and Licinius, added to the disorder and partly explains the progress of the religious conflict during the years 322-3. Finally Constantine, having conquered Licinius and become sole emperor, concerned himself with the re-establishment of religious peace as well as of civil order. He addressed letters to St. Alexander and to Arius deprecating these heated controversies regarding questions of no practical importance, and advising the adversaries to agree without delay. It was evident that the emperor did not then grasp the significance of the Arian controversy. Hosius of Cordova, his counsellor in religious matters, bore the imperial letter to Alexandria, but failed in his conciliatory mission. Seeing this, the emperor, perhaps advised by Hosius, judged no remedy more apt to restore peace in the Church than the convocation of an oecumenical council.
It is thought theat there was an agreement between Pope Sylvester and Constantine that allowed the enforcement of council decisions. It is unclear. It is however incorrect to say that it was headed by a pagan empiror. He did not sit on the council, he just didn't execute them for doing it.
Gnostic scrolls are just that, gnostic. They have been altered by gnostics to suit their beliefs. The edits are not covered up very well at all and easily discovered. Therefore the documents that had been tampered with could not be considered authentic and had to be left out of the Bible. The best thing to come from the council was the "Nicean Creed" which is still in use to this day.
There is literally gobs of info on this topic at
New Advent if you are curious.
PAX
Back to the original post: I don't celebrate the birth of someone, I celebrate a fat man leaving gifts for people. Really, who even talks about the birth of Jesus on Christmas when opening presents?
*****************************************************
*
* Premium as of January 25, 2005. Support the Org.
*
*****************************************************
/\ /\ /\ /\ Hes right, Just as you guys have mentioned Christmas is slowing being pushed out of the whole holiday picture and its been being replaced by a free for all in the malls to find the last Bratz doll for your kid. Christmas has turned into a holiday of
gimme gimme gimme!!
Christmas as we knew it is gone.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
It doesn't have to be. You can take control of Christmas, at least in your own home. Go ahead, celebrate the birth of Jesus. Nobody will stop you.
PAX
Hahahaha wrote:It doesn't have to be. You can take control of Christmas, at least in your own home. Go ahead, celebrate the birth of Jesus. Nobody will stop you.
PAX
The democrats and other bleeding-heart liberals are working on that, too.
/\ /\ /\ /\ Well thats just cause it not P.C. thats all.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
I bought nothing on "buy nothing day" (last Friday).. It's a start.
I kinda understand why they are trying to remove religion from public spaces but at the same time, if I travel outside my country (and outside my culture) I sure don't get offended by local custom and it bothers me that people may be offended by mine. A culture of hatred towards others or something like that would be offensive, but that's not what we're talking about is it?
Am I being too rational?
PAX
I think that a large part of the anti-christian sentiment has to do with the fact that in the past and even right now factions of christianity demonized everything that isn't christian.
But two wrongs don't make a right, in their defense, christians have as much right to celebrate christmas as eveyone else has to celebrate whatever.
I look at it like any other freedom--there's two ways it can be done--either all excluding or all-encompassing. If you're the all-excluding sort, that means that everything religion-based is nixed from the season, and hence, the season sucks. Or, you can go all encompassing and just not give a @!#$ about what other people are celebrating or displaying, and just take heart in the fact that they are celebrating!
Really, does it matter if a monorah is displayed with a nativity scene is displayed with mistletoe? If that offends you, I personally think you have some faith issues.
I, for instance, do not get offended by someone wishing me merry christmas. Why should i? it's a well-wish for @!#$'s sake! The same way no one should get offended if i wish them a happy solstice or happy holidays. If you are tye type to get offended by someone wishing you well on a holiday that you don't celebrate, than please, kill yourself.
and for the rest of us, happy kwanzahanukkarma-lama-ding-dong-mass, let's party!
Goodbye Callisto & Skaği, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
[quote=Keeper of the Light™]
I, for instance, do not get offended by someone wishing me merry christmas. Why should i? it's a well-wish for @!#$'s sake! The same way no one should get offended if i wish them a happy solstice or happy holidays. If you are tye type to get offended by someone wishing you well on a holiday that you don't celebrate, than please, kill yourself.
and for the rest of us, happy kwanzahanukkarma-lama-ding-dong-mass, let's party!
exactly. more people need to think like that
You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan
(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)
mikec2003 wrote:[quote=Keeper of the Light�]
I, for instance, do not get offended by someone wishing me merry christmas. Why should i? it's a well-wish for @!#$'s sake! The same way no one should get offended if i wish them a happy solstice or happy holidays. If you are tye type to get offended by someone wishing you well on a holiday that you don't celebrate, than please, kill yourself.
and for the rest of us, happy kwanzahanukkarma-lama-ding-dong-mass, let's party!
exactly. more people need to think like that
Well said.
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
blah i read this same crap every year....seriously i dont think a whole lot is going to change when it comes to idiots pretending to be offended to get attention. those who bealive strong in there own choice of religion wouldnt allow stores to change it for them...your in control, not walmart, k-mart , not sears....your in control , celebrate how you choose.....if you wanna give gifts, feel free too...if you wanna read your bible, go for it...if you wanna streak down a busy road...stay away from me but go for it seriously dont all of you read this same debate every year ?
96 cavi(RIP),99 olds alero' WI_J's
WI j-tuner
http://www.geocities.com/WIJTuners/
