Just curious, what do you think would have happened if Hitler would have prevailed?
Please, this is a DEBATE. No post jacking.
Josh
SLK 32
Define prevailed. If you mean had he won the war and everything then there's still the point where his troops would have to invade the US and make everyone obey him. And everyone knows that probably wouldn't happen. But a side note is that Japan probably wouldn't have been nuked.
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medicine would be further advanced than it is now.
oh yeah, and you would probably not ever read anything by me, because i would probably not exist
The "What if?" Game isn't one I like to play: it's like re-writing history.
Seriously, if Hitler had somehow gotten out of a 2 front war on their doorstep: Hitler would still have been killed. There were many in the Nazi party that hated him, and his inner circle (some, even that were in the inner circle). Most didn't want a fuhrer, they wanted a leader... after the SS consolodated political and military power for Hilter, the assassination plots were under way (this in the era before bullet resistant glass was available). Hitler LOVED giving speeches, and that's the time to take him out... a 1 Reichmark bullet would end the problem of the ultimate solution, it would be fitting if a Russian Jew fired it... anyhow.
Russian Generals had a scorched-earth plan that would basically vaporisemost of the major factory centers in the Ural, Ukraine and Russian territories in the Baltic area.
After that, you basically have the Steppe regions that are pretty much just plains, suitable for farming some of the time.
China would still have had Mao Tse Tung, and instead of the march to rid China of the Japanese, they would have probably marched west to wreak havoc on the 3rd Reich.
Given that the US and Canada are on another CONTINENT, the war would have been ultimately prolonged, and frankly, at the time, the US & Canada had greater wealth in resources. Hitler even expressed admiration (or abject fear) for US Generals Patton and Eisenhower... Canadian volunteer military was well feared because of the Battle of Vimy Ridge in WWI (http://www.civilization.ca/cwm/vimy/index_e.html) as well as Ypres and recent battles in France, Poland and other areas (Canada was hip deep in WWII when Germany invaded Poland, almost a full 2 years before Dec 7, 1941).
Basically, Hitler's bombers didn't have the range, and the Naval fleet didn't have the ability to maintain a siege long enough to deplete the energy reserves and food resources in the Americas.
It would have ended up probably with Australia allying with the Americas, Germany controlling much of the Asian, African, and all of the European continents, and China and Japan fighting a very costly battle long-term, until one eventually defeated the other, or they were both swept up by other factions, probably German.
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/\ /\ /\ Actualy I think it would be VERY different. Only speak German, if your not blonde with blue eyes your dead. But like James said even if he had won in Europe he would
have had to invade the U.S. after all his loses over there I seriously don't think he would have been able to do it for years. But even then it would have been ugly, they would also have had nukes by then and we would have had more of them made. I think it very well could have escalated into a full blown nuclear war and would have destroyed the planet and probly killed off everyone. But just as ToBoGgAn said IF he had won and utterly defeated the whole worlds collective armies then the technological breakthrus would be astounding by now. One thing those Germans were was smart.
In the end I think we are better off him not haveing won. Too many people would have died or been killed. the Earth as we know it would never had existed.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Hitler had put a freeze on development of all technological projects in 1943. That included atomic weaponry research.
Keep in mind, it took the US almost 3 years of intense, dedicated research to create an atomic weapon. Also, remember that there weren't any places for bombers to land, refuel, and take off in the atlantic, and the trip was WAY too long to come in over the pole.
At the time, Germany had purged all the Jewish scientists from Peenemunde (their rocket development base), and lost most of the program, except for what they had stolen from the Goddard group. No, they didn't have the resources, or the scientific research in aerodynamics to create a vessel to carry a nuclear bomb into the US. Ballistic Missiles wouldn't reach Intercontinental status until well into the 60's. Even using the V1 Buzz bombs fired from a Ship's deck, you're gambling that the ship won't pitch down suddenly and pop a nuke into the ocean 300-400 yards off the bow.
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Sorry Gam you beet me to the post the /\ /\ /\ Were ment for Mr.Goodwrench not you.
I must say I agree with you pretty much 100% on this one.............Oh look its snowing!
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Japan would have crushed hitler when Hiter would have encroached on their territory
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The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:Whore wrote:Just curious, what do you think would have happened if Hitler would have prevailed?
Please, this is a DEBATE. No post jacking.
Sadly, the world would not be that much different. Still have racism, certain races/religion thinking they are superior to others, certain countries still trying to overtake others, etc.
Ya really not much different to what we see today, save for the funny mustache.
That's very true but I think the only difference is that most of the time when you see genocide, it's directed torwards it's own country. Hitler did it to his country and had master plans of taking over THE WORLD! I mean...how much more "Super Villain" can you get?
Now, if he did follow through with his plans, he would defenitley have France and probably most of eastern europe. I don't know how long it would have taken to do all of this but it would have taken a long time do actually take over even most of what he wanted. I believe I read somewhere he had a set mark of taking over countries, then he would stop for about 10 years then start back up because by then children would have been more grown up and his army would regroup and repopulate.
Now, if he did complete his plans of world domination, I wouldn't be here or I'd probably be a slave or something of that nature.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
[quote=Keeper of the Light™]Japan would have crushed hitler when Hiter would have encroached on their territory
Not Likely... the Imperial Navy, and Army didn't have nearly enough numbers to halt the huns. Also, given that they would have more than likely conquered the Mid-east without a lot of problems, they'd have what the Japanese needed most for their war machine: oil.
Germany was REALLY close to winning WWII... I mean... Total World domination would have been in their grasp had they not shut down weapons development.
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nah, hitler was a moron and the japanese were fanatics.Hitler only signed the treaties to atempt to doublecross them, like he did with Stalin. In truth, the third reigh was afraid of the japanese, which is why they signed the treaty.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
instead of hitler controling the world.........its bush.
maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow....... but some day
I don't think so Keeper... The Japanese were extremely limited in their fuel resources... Sure, they had a Navy that would compete well against the German and Itallian Navies, but if they had no fuel, they'd stay in port.
Germany could have severed the fuel supply lines and kept a thin-spread Navy well occupied until their reserves were dry... and then let the populace kill each other until they're done with each other, and carpet bomb the place as well.
Logistically, in 1945, Japan was at the end of its rope, and the reason was because their Navy (and the accompanying airforce) was stretched thin. They were fanatical (look at the Kamikaze attacks), but they were running short on good pilots, good ship crews and trained soldiers. With a protracted 2 front battle between the North American/Australian allies, and their own lack of resources, they were done from the beginning. Couple that with the Chinese peasantry organising under Mao Tse Tung into a real and formidable army... and you basically have a Japanese Army being beaten back into the sea.
Hitler WAS a fool.. definitely, but had the Wermacht been allowed to wage their battles their way, I can't rightly think of a Military force that could have opposed them (with the exception of the Soviets).
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I think Germany would have taken all of Europe, most of North Africa (above the Sahara and maybe South Africa), and Eastern and Central Asia. If they got by Britain they were done... Britain screwed them big time in North Africa (tying up troops) and also threatening from thir island. Plus the Royal Navy was in control of the seas. This is what I consider my alternate history of WW2:
Germany does its thing until 1940 when the Luftwaffe does not Blitz London and instead focuses on airfields and factories. The RAF was close to breaking in 1940 until the Luftwaffe shifted to cites. So in this scenario the Luftwaffe gains air superiority over Southern England and effectively begins to pound the defenses of the island (which aren't that formidible). The Ju-88's and He-111's hit the longer range targets and the Stukas hit the troops. Then the German army (which is still undefeated) crosses the channel under the full cover of the Luftwaffe which sinks any RNavy ships that get in the Channel. At the same time U-boats do the same thing and go all-out on British shipping. The German army, once ashore, is able to take the southern third of Britain in a few weeks. The British will fight hard but they really will not have a chance of beating the larger and superior German army and tactics. remember they had lost alot of men, material, and moral in France. Britain would no doubt ask for surrender terms to stop the attack... the Germans would respect the british but ask for compensation, as in a good part of the Royal Navy, and make the Brits downsize the military and allow the germans access to their ports and even airfields.. kind of like a Vichy England in a way.
After beating Britain, the main hold on German trade and naval excursions would be lifted for other uses. They would allow the Italians to have their pick of North Africa from Moroxxo to Egypt. The Germans would send a force to the Mid-East to seize British territories there and set up a front on the Russian southern flank. They would finish their campaign in the Balkans quickly (no British aid or fleet to worry about). They would set their sights on Russia.
They would attack Russian weeks, even months earlier, in this scenario and have more troops freed to do so. They would plow over the Russians just as they did in real history but now they would have more weeks of good weather to deal with. They would be able to seize Moscow in 1941 and maybe even Leningrad. If the Russians were able to stop the offensive it would be now, in winter. Then in spring 1942, they would attack into the Caucasus in union with the German Army in the Mid-East. They would now have the Baku oilfields. Then the Northern part of the German army would strike into central Russia and in classic Blitz style, fragment the remaining Russian troops into pockets and destroy them. By the end of 1942, the Urals would be either captured or bombed by the Luftwaffe which would now be in range of the factories. Russia would surrender either then or in 1943 since its Army and major population and industrial centers would be silenced.
With Japan, they would probably do a similar strategy through 1941 and assuming they hit Pearl Harbor, America would eventually get into the war anyway sometime or later. Germany would not take any lands in Eastern Asia and would remain a Westertn power. Japan would do its own Blitz but America would be cautious about Germany because it now controlled all of Europe. Hitler was dumb and made some dumb decisions (like declaring war on the US after Pearl)... the US would put their cards in against Japan and play a waiting game with Germany (Germany may not be in a hurry to fight the US with the war in Russia going in full swing) I do see the Germans aiding Japan more as in weapons technology and trade but the US still would prevail in a war between them. Meanwhile the Japs would be fighting China (maybe with miltary aid from the Germans). By 1942 or 1943 America and Germany would be at war...
The war would most likely be a stalemate since all three sides have their zones of influence and power. Neither side, all with strong navies and air forces, would be willing to invade the other, although they would sure try. The US would try and defend Australia and take Japanese bases in the Central Pacific. The Japanese would try and take Australia, China, and Southeast Asia (no Britain in India now remember). The Germans would try and fight a U-boat war against the US Navy and maybe try and probe the outer defenses. The big US advantage was that they had B17s, B24's and B29s by now and would be using them against German and Japanese targets. On the other hand the germans would have the Me-262 and other jet planes to attack US bombers. P-51s could fight off Me-1092 and FW-190s but not jets. Neither Japan or Germany could hit back with basically no strategic bomber. I think once the German jet airforce got strong enough, they would end the American strategic bombing. However none of them could get close to hitting America (including the few jet bombers and four engined bombers which would be too little to do much) The German and American armies were very advanced and powerful by this time and would be a match for each other... but defense beats offense every time. To end this speculation, I think the war would reach a stalemate with Germany holding Europe and North Africa, America holding North America, and Japan SE Asia and China. The US would also have the Atomic bomb before the other two and I wouldnt count out them using it on German and Japanese targets. This would force a stalemate in the US's favor. Germany would be hardpressed to develop a V2 that could reach the US from Europe before the A-bombs started falling China would take a huge toll on Japan but I do not see Germany messing with them.. not that they were strong (the German army and panzer armies would have crushed the weakly armored and motorized Japanese troops. This would be more of an uneasy truce with the US holding the nuclear card.. After the 1940's who knows what could have happened nuke-wise or rocket-wise.
This isnt all bad... I think Hitler would have been taken out by an assassin or a rival that was more moderate... the Holocaust would have ended with saner heads in power. The Nazi party may have remained or maybe replaced by a more moderate government. Hitler had alot of enemies and may have made some costly blunders in the war (he was a very bad tactician at times) I don't think the "Empire" would hold together with a tyrannical dictator bet on killing Non-Aryans in power. There was too much risk of internal struggle/civil war. The German Empire may have eventually broke up like the Soviet Union did after decades. The US was by far the stablest internally and did not have to control often hostile peoples over thousands of miles. Yes Hitler would have been able to kill more people if Germany won, but I don't think he would have lasted long enough to do it. The German army was the equal to the US for the entire war and really the only one that could beat it on equal terms. The distances involved would be hard to overcome unless one side made a big msitake or suffered a huge defeat.
Hitler WAS a fool.. definitely, but had the Wermacht been allowed to wage their battles their way, I can't rightly think of a Military force that could have opposed them (with the exception of the Soviets).
ohh, i think the US forces would have done alright, save D-day, that would have been alot worse. Army never did amphibious landings too well.
Chris
"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."
Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry
What are you guys smoking, hitler was awesome.
not really.
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Hitler WAS a fool.. definitely, but had the Wermacht been allowed to wage their battles their way, I can't rightly think of a Military force that could have opposed them (with the exception of the Soviets).
man vs. man I think the the Germans and Americans were about evenly matched by say 1944-45, when the US landed. The Soviets were still a couple steps back in everything but armor.
Tanks: 1. Germans had the Panther (best tank of WW2), the Tiger, the King Tiger, and very good light armor and recon vehicles.
2. Soviets were real close by the end of the war to matching German armor... they started it with the T34 (panther was based on it) and ended with the IS-2 and IS-3 which shocked the West after the war.
3. Americans had the Pershing and the Sherman, which really didnt stack up.
AT Guns: 1. The German 88 was the best anti-tank weapon of the war.
2. Americans had some serious anti-tank stuff from 76mm to bazookas
3. Soviets didnt have a gun to match the above...
Troops: The Soviets only won because they outnumbered the Germans by 3-4:1 by the end of the war... if you throw 1000 tanks at 200 you WILL win eventually... The US also had more troops but the advantage wasnt nearly as great... the US troops were better trained and equipped by this time of the war... the quality of the German soldier decreased as the war ended and most of the time they didnt have enough men to use some of the cool shiznit they built toward the end
Assuming they (meaning Rommel, Goerbels and Eichmann) had been permitted to wage war the way they thought they should have, the Volge would have been crossed and held, N. Africa would have been looked after, and that would have allowed the Itallian fleet to get out into the Atlantic...
Russia would have been starved of their oil, and munitions factories in the Ukraine and Ural (Not to mention, the Northern Fleet would have been kept at bay), and would basically have been on the run with the same wholesale "the gun goes forward" slaughter-fest tactic that they used to stop the inital advances.
I'm assuming that:
a: Hitler gave broad powers to the Wehrmacht in order expedite the processes of war, and
b: The tech R&D groups hadn't had their projects frozen in 1943.
Taesch:
True, but assuming the North African Theatre had been won by the Germans, the Itallian fleet and the German U-Boat wolfpacks would have ripped to shreds the British supply lines... No British Isles for the US troops to stage on, no European theatre. There aren't enough islands (at least, of sufficient size) in the Atlantic to support a Pacific-style war.
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I've been Studying Bush And his War Intelliegnce. What if someone was to Say, Bush has remarkably taken the role that hitler once had, Minus the Killing And Extremism(racism). With the Authority the Us has in this Very Very Small World, Bush has alot of Influence. Why is he Still in Iraq? We got the People We Needed. I believe Him to be there Because They have Oil. And i Read He might Be Invading Venezuala. Keep in mind they are like 6th Overall in the world for Oil Production. All the While, Use terrorism as a ScapeGoat. too far fetched or is it? canada Pulled out of Iraq a LONG TIME AGO.
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did you know that the Japanese Navy, in a last ditch attempt at saving Okinawa
was going to beach there prized Battleship the Yamato ... the idea was to use
it's huge guns as artllery. of course It was sunk before it got there
that is true, although that was one of the few capital ships Japan had left by then... they were in kamikaze mentality by that point. They had converted the third superbattleship into a carrier only to have it sunk by a submarine on its first foray... Hitler screwed Germany militarily over and over but Japan was screwed once the last plane left Pearl Harbor...
Brandon Badger wrote:I've been Studying Bush And his War Intelliegnce.
War on intelligence??? HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
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canada Pulled out of Iraq a LONG TIME AGO.
Yeah... 1992.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
"Taesch:
True, but assuming the North African Theatre had been won by the Germans, the Itallian fleet and the German U-Boat wolfpacks would have ripped to shreds the British supply lines... No British Isles for the US troops to stage on, no European theatre. There aren't enough islands (at least, of sufficient size) in the Atlantic to support a Pacific-style war. "
more so, had patton not had eisenhower pulling him back so the brits could win a battle every now and then, the war would have been mutch shorter.
also i really dont think the german\ italan navy could have stood up to the US navy, we had lanched the Iowa class battle ships,
worse case, we cripple there navy, make a beach head landing in italty, move north.
its all what if, but i think the us and canda, with all there resorces, would have been able to beat the axis.
Chris
"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."
Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry
