I think... that all politicians (which most have additional income as opposed to the outrageous amount of pay they get while in office)... should only be offered at MOST an additional $20,000 to $25,000 a year. And they SHOULD HAVE to be present for a vote, unless they are working at their other job. Only those with no additional incomes should be offered more (maybe $35,000 to $40,000 a year)... and they should NOT be able to get car allowances, housing allowances, and other stuff they get for free that the rest of the public has to pay for themselves.
Pennsylvania has the second highest paid "government" in the US, second only to California. (This was in the paper)...
They should be granted cost of living increases no more than the average US Citizen gets... which would be a set percentage every year.
Recently, our wonderful PA congressman and senators gave themselves up to a 64% pay increase... alot making more than $80,000 a year... and most have additional incomes from law firms, farms, and other businesses in addition to that. They are required to state where they get anything over $1500 a year income from... but not how much. And to top everything off... they are not supposed to be allowed to get their pay increase until the next reelected term... but they are taking their pay increases early as "vouchered expenses"... some getting up to $120,000. Some did turn down the raise and vouchered expenses... and there has been a suit filed regarding this.
Now granted there are some actual good, honest politicians out there... but most care more about who lines their pockets than "of the people, by the people and for the people". This is rediculous.
Some argue... "well we need to make the wage more attractive to get qualified people into office"... ok... well then how about this.
Let ordinary citizens who want to run for office, run for office. Set up a fund to help them run for office... you know... people who actually give a crap about giving the people what they actually want... instead of hollow promises. If someone actually cares about representing the people... by all means let them run!!!
Sorry this pay increase in PA just really ticks me off. PA has a state budget problem to begin with and is in trouble... what a way to show you care about the people and the state then to give yourselves up to a 34% pay increase and take it now through "Vouchered expenses".
What is everyone else's thoughts on this and other related things?
IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. As long as theres a buck to be made there will be corruption.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
I think I'm as pessimistic as jack on this one.
I'm also not sure I agree with your ideas, but to be fair, I have no real alternative ideas, either. At least one of us is thinking.
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jackalope wrote:IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. As long as theres a buck to be made there will be corruption.
One can dream can't they??
AGuSTiN wrote:I think I'm as pessimistic as jack on this one.
I'm also not sure I agree with your ideas, but to be fair, I have no real alternative ideas, either. At least one of us is thinking.
I can appreciate that.
I can't think of any other way to even try to keep corruption out of politics... except for taking away one of the reasons it's there to begin with...
I'm just angry at the outrageous pay raise PA congressmen gave themselves... who in the hell outside of politics gets a 64% pay increase?!?!?!?! I guess it's that things are way out of hand... there HAS to be a way to fix it... buuuttttt.... I don't think it's likely either...
HOLY CRAP !!!!! AGuSTiN and I agree !!!! WOW look its snowing outside.
I wish politics could be like for founding fathers had thought it could be but as long as
someone can make a buck it will never happen.
Why else would someone spend millions of dollers to get electid to a job that only pays a hundred grand a year if your planning to get big bucks for elsewhere.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
jack : Here's one you'll like...
Campaign reforms: This includes Presidential, congressional, and senatorial candidates,
- Each candidate is allowed to have no more than 30 persons working on their election team. No one on a team may aid another candidate in a concurrent election.
- No campaign may have more than $100,000 available for funds, and at the conclusion of the race, any remainders are to be returned to the contributors.
-No campaign may advertise on broadcast media for their candidate more than once an hour during the election.
-No campaign may address any other campaign or candidate (that's what debates are for).
-No non-campaign advertisements which attack or praise any candidate may be broadcast or printed during an election campaign for one year prior to the actual election.
-There will be no aired or printed advertisments on the day of the election. All signage must be taken down or covered.
-Television Networks may not charge any campaign for air time, and they must give equal representation to EVERY campaign (ie, if the Green or Rhino Party airs no advertisements, then the RNC/DNC may not air any as well).
-Each Candidate must participate in each debate for their precinct, Death is not excuse enough to miss a debate.
-Every Candidate must fill out an application form for candidate, and must alone write, in legible and concise writing, a minimum 500 word/maximum 750 word essay entitled "Why I want to be President/Senator/Congressperson." Spelling or grammatical errors will be penalised, more than 4 errors in spelling/grammar AND logical thought or sentence progression will default the candidate from the race. All submissions will be printed (with Red marker corrections) in all precinct news paper publications.
How's that for electoral reform?
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
It would be great Gam but you know as well as I that BOTH parties would hire super attornies to find loop holes in what ever sort of reformes are put into place. Sorry but I've seen so much s--t come from the white house that it should be painted brown.
Its a shame but I seriously don't think anything can be done to fix this.
Some of your idaes sound a little familer, Why is that ?
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
i think i;ll sooner win the bronze in womens gymnastics 2008...
for corruption to leave pollitics, first the prob would have to be identified publicly before addressed. for that to occur, one side would have to admit their own wrong doings, exposing themselves as well as others.
even if things dont reform....
i;d personally love to see in 2008
Quote:
-Television Networks may not charge any campaign for air time, and they must give equal representation to EVERY campaign (ie, if the Green or Rhino Party airs no advertisements, then the RNC/DNC may not air any as well).
mainly because alot of democrats and republicans especially fit into the constitutional party better than their current, but most dont even know much about it.
Damn Event I never knew. Good luck in '08.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
i'm gonna stick the landing like peter north and rocco sifredi at a womens convention
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:jack : Here's one you'll like...
Campaign reforms: This includes Presidential, congressional, and senatorial candidates,
- Each candidate is allowed to have no more than 30 persons working on their election team. No one on a team may aid another candidate in a concurrent election.
- No campaign may have more than $100,000 available for funds, and at the conclusion of the race, any remainders are to be returned to the contributors.
-No campaign may advertise on broadcast media for their candidate more than once an hour during the election.
-No campaign may address any other campaign or candidate (that's what debates are for).
-No non-campaign advertisements which attack or praise any candidate may be broadcast or printed during an election campaign for one year prior to the actual election.
-There will be no aired or printed advertisments on the day of the election. All signage must be taken down or covered.
-Television Networks may not charge any campaign for air time, and they must give equal representation to EVERY campaign (ie, if the Green or Rhino Party airs no advertisements, then the RNC/DNC may not air any as well).
-Each Candidate must participate in each debate for their precinct, Death is not excuse enough to miss a debate.
-Every Candidate must fill out an application form for candidate, and must alone write, in legible and concise writing, a minimum 500 word/maximum 750 word essay entitled "Why I want to be President/Senator/Congressperson." Spelling or grammatical errors will be penalised, more than 4 errors in spelling/grammar AND logical thought or sentence progression will default the candidate from the race. All submissions will be printed (with Red marker corrections) in all precinct news paper publications.
How's that for electoral reform?
See now THAT idea I like. Opens up for more people to run... and if you would add that to some of the ideas I had (or something along those lines)... that COULD potentially get rid of at least a good chunk of the corruption that takes place.
Like I said... it'll never happen... but it's nice to dream...
The only way corruption will be out of politics is if politics are outlawed.
That's the sad thing, no matter how utopian an idea for government is, someone will screw it up.
It's nice to dream, but you'd have to change human nature first.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
just because ours is more "just" doesn't mean it's perfect.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
[quote=Keeper of the Light™]just because ours is more "just" doesn't mean it's perfect.
true...
the majority of any corruption comes from humans which all humans have flaws.... some more than others.
greed is a main staple in most all countries political systems.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:
- No campaign may have more than $100,000 available for funds, and at the conclusion of the race, any remainders are to be returned to the contributors.
$100k can go really quick on signage alone. Seems a bit low to me.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:
-No campaign may advertise on broadcast media for their candidate more than once an hour during the election.
Make it once every other hour and I'm sold on this one.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:
-Every Candidate must fill out an application form for candidate, and must alone write, in legible and concise writing, .... All submissions will be printed (with Red marker corrections) in all precinct news paper publications.
Red marker corrections are to be done by a college professor (or equivalant) from a neutral, English-speaking country other than country of elections. Said corrector is randomly selected by lottery, once said neutral country has at least 5 volunteers for the lottery. No one corrector may be assigned to consecutive elections.
FallenAngel wrote:
Let ordinary citizens who want to run for office, run for office. Set up a fund to help them run for office... you know... people who actually give a crap about giving the people what they actually want... instead of hollow promises. If someone actually cares about representing the people... by all means let them run!!!
This I have to agree with, but to a point. Wouldn't want every Hillbilly JimBob running "cause that thar prez-ee-dent dun gone and blowed up my moonshine makin' con-trap-shun." Tie it in with the application form to prevent as such.
Kardain: The whole Idea of a LOW budget is to keep Signage, and name plastering to a bare minimum.
As for the corrections: WAY Too much going on there. In the case of Dubya, I think a Highschool teacher could have cut it to ribbons, but that's assuming he doesn't have an ear piece and some whitehouse dick feeding him lines.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Would you prefer to languish in the current system in it's antiquated and futile state or maybe try making it better?
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
my ideas to get corruption out,
One, Longer terms with no chance of re-election. Meaning, once someone gets electetd, they won't have to look out for corperate sponcers interest.
Two, give them an extremely nice salery, 200k+, but prohibit them from having any outside income.
Three, Assign them an independent accountant who accounts for EVERY dime they recieve and spend. And the accountant stays with them for 5-10 years or so years after they leave office. (make sure they don't get any kickbacks after they leave office) also, any gift worth $50 or more must be made public knowledge.
Four, All of there stocks have to be exetrely diverified. No more than 4-5% of their wealth can be in one company, or even sector of business.
I'm sure their are more, but i just can't think of any right now
Promise that forever we will never get better at growing up and learning to lie
Longer terms? 5 years tops.
Salary: $0 you're getting everything paid for and you must put all your finances in zero-interest/zero risk trust.
Accounting: make their entire financial record available... SQUEEKY clean.
Gifts: I already covered that with the $100,000 limit.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
I would move up more around 8 years or so for the term length. We want someone in there free from owing anybody anything. Plus, it would be pretty inefficient having completely new people every 5 years, learning the ropes, contacts, yada yada yada.
When you say $0 Salary, you mean, they get free housing, food, vacation, cars, schooling for kids, and so on? I think it would be cheaper just to give them a salary of 200k. Let them live on it.
And yes about keeping there finances public, but they should have a personal accountant keeping track of how much every dinner cost, every round of golf, every time a tank of gas is bought. That way, he can not be bribed in any way.
You are talking about campain contrabutions. When I say gifts, I mean things like a company paying for a round of golf and dinner. How they paid for a vacation house... stuff like that. Basically, keeping corporate influences down as much as possible.
I don't know enough about politics to put a limit on campain contrabutions.
As for freezing all their assets? It's their money, let them do what they want with it, just as long as it doesn't influence any choices they make on the job.
Promise that forever we will never get better at growing up and learning to lie
True, but, other than whitehouse staff, which are turned over almost yearly and are paid a pittance (except for upper echelon staff), you could just employ the same people from a secretarial pool year after year... ie, change the elected, not the staff.
I say zero Salary because they get way too much to begin with, accompanied by the perks... I figure, give them the perks, and let them enjoy the power, but don't pay them money.
Accountants... great idea... I don't think I was disagreeing, but it would be telling to reveal all the books. That way you know who he/she owes from the way on up.
Campaign contributions are basically the candidate asking for money from people and corporations to help them run to get voted. At it's essence, it's legalised bribery. I wouldn't make it out to be anything less, but it's not like you're buying them out. Corporate "contributions" are the things that really worry me. Gifts, well, during campaign etc.. I'd say no gifts because I distrust those kinds of things.
I'd say freeze the money because that way, a: they have no incentive to jigger things for the benefit of their portfolio, and b: it'd be a positive thing because it keeps their nose clean and their electorate doesn't have to second guess the candidate's decisions.
We could do away with most of these and destroy the party system and let reps vote the way their constituents want them to, but that would be a little hippy liberal of me to brooch an ideal of the FIRST president
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Jinxed perfection can't exist, but it doesn't mean that we can't try to strive for it...
Hell, if everyone on this board thought that way, no one here would have modded their cars--nothing would get done.
Nothing's perfect, but everything can be be made better.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
[quote=Keeper of the Light™]Jinxed perfection can't exist, but it doesn't mean that we can't try to strive for it...
.
soooo true...
its like people say we are completely free.... total freedom or complete freedom would be anarchy....
we strive to have as much freedom as possible, but there has to be some checks and balance there.
