First off let me just say in the last 3 years I've known 2 people who have commited suicide. I'am not trying to make light of it or offend.

I find it intriguing and a great unknown, much like death itself. The whole experience leading up to that point and final moments have always peaked my curiosity. It may sound sick but I would love to observe a person hours prior and in the act itself--not for any kind of gratification or pleasure, just to learn from a distance.


Anyways the whole point of this is that I was moved by not a 'suicide note' but more like a play-by-play.


There is an extract in Geo Stone's book, regarding the finale during CO suicide. It is the translation of a note written by a Japanese suicide while their car was filling with carbon monoxide and credited as being extracted from Suicidal Carbon Monoxide Inhalation of Exhaust Fumes, Investigation of Cases by S. Tsunenari, et al, as originally published in The American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology 6(3) (September 1985), pp. 233-39:

[At 6:15 PM.] The inhalation of exhaust gases is begun.

[After seven minutes.] My eyes and throat are slightly irritated. Put on a bathing towel. There are tremendous water drops on the door glass. The tank is full of gasoline.

[After eight-and-a-half minutes.] Slight shortness of breath. Ha-ha-ha. The powers of Nissan's engines are great!

[After ten minutes] Swallowed a cup of sake. I could not control myself to stay in the cabin {of the mini-van} at this level of shortness-of-breath yesterday.

[After eleven minutes.] To the mistress of a grocery store; "Yes, you were right. The size of this hose, 30mm in outer diameter and 25mm in inner diameter, fits the exhaust pipe perfectly.

[After twelve-and-a-half minutes.] Swallowed another cup of sake. I wish I could have a can of beer. I wonder what the concentration of carbon monoxide is now.

[After fourteen minutes.] Breathing can only be done by mouth.

[After fifteen minutes.] Water is pouring out of the hose.

[After sixteen minutes.] Goodbye, Mum and Papa! [And a list of six others.]

[After seventeen minutes.] Still I am living. It is asthmatic breathing. Now, I will sleep.

[This was the last entry.]


Thoughts, feelings?

I put this in the War Forum instead of O/T because in hopes of a serious discussion.

Kinda sad when you think about it as to what made him want to do this, and why he wanted to log it down. Then again, I've been to the point where I've wanted to do this, and have made attempts. People caught me though so i got into a lot of s*it for it.

idk that seems kinda werid.


i mean ok you lose it for a moment and pull a trigger, bam your dead it takes a a milisecond, for 15 minutes u have to come to your senses, and try and get out, and i dont see how anyone who wants to kill themselves be controled and clam enought ot take notes.


-Borsty

Intresting fascination. Not that i find it sick and twisted--it's a natural curiousity IMHO in response to a complete @!#$ up world.

There are really 3 types of suicidal people i've run into (or been )

One type, is the ones that think death and suicide and all that are glorious. While i couldn't even begin to expound on the why they believe it as such, i think part of it is the fact that it's severely downplayed or trivialized--especially since from such a young age we're protected from the grim reality. After all, how many of you that are parents that look/post here would take your 3-5 year old to a funeral and then even begin to try to explain the reality of death to them--and i'm not talking about the "They're in a better place now."

The second type is the attention whore--the one that bandies around the fact they they are going to kill themselves, announces it loudly, and expects people to come to their rescue--whether or not the problems they face are real or not. They also tend to have the dramatic types--either by saying, "Listen to <xx> track of <xxx> CD..." for their suicide note or does something somewhat elaborate--they want their story told.

The last type are the ones that find the reality they live in being so difficult in that place and that time, that they feel they need a way out and that there is no other way out at that given moment. They know the hard reality (maybe not the extent), but they don't see any other choice.

Of course, one could be a combination at varying levels of all three.

I will not include those that wish to commit suicide based upon medical or physical anguish--or those that can't stand living as a burden to someone else because i find those a special case

I find it an intresting phenominon in Western "culture". Moreso how we deal with it. First off, it's "Illegal" in most cases. While i'm not going to debate the moral implications because that's a relative measure based upon a personal POV (point of view) that has little bearing on someone else's POV, legally, i'm amused by it.

First off, there is a population problem. While I don't think it's alright for someone else to decide who lives and who dies (that's nature's job), surely one can and should be allowed to end their life if they wish--for whatever reason. One can try to stop them and talk them out of it, of course, but in the end, the descsion should lie with that person. Moreover, I find it amusing that we try to keep incarcerated criminals from committing suicide. I would like to know why. While I don't think that, say, posession of Marijuana necessitates the death penalty, if someone's in prison for 20 years or so, and decided after 10 that they can't take it and wants to kill themselves, why can't they?

And again, the medical reasons i'm not including, because that will be debated as long and as hard as the Linux vs. Microsoft debate on the tech side of things. But my opinion is that they should be able to commit suicide if they want to.

The flipside of this is the question, "What about the next of kin?" The problem is that for most people they can't, won't, or haven't faced death, and don't want to. Who does? I've faced it and I don't relish the thought of facing it again--even though I know i will, and should probably do it with dignity be it my death, or a loved one's. But still, the living don't like facing it and can't come to grips with the loss. However, everything that is alive will die, everything that has lived has died, and everything that will live will die--so IMHO it's better to accept this as a fact of life--you will lose those you love--be it homicde, suicide, illness, natural causes, or whatever. Moreso, you will end up estranging your loved ones when you die. There's not much you can do about it.

But then there's the nagging question--in regards to suicide: Could I have done more to prevent it? In my opinion--no. Suicide is the berdun of the person that is suicidal--them and them alone.

My $.02


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

The thoughts of suicide are not entirely unreasonable for some, and for others they're irrationally paranoid about it.

Look at it like this... there is a law on the books in Canada and most American states that forbids Suicide. I think the point would be moot if you completed one.. and if not, you need HELP not jail.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

Keep, nicely put. It's kind of funny because people say those who commit suicide are selfish. I was reading an excerpt that talks about putting a warning on the glass [so nobody else drinks out of it again] when you mix tap water with Potassium Cyanide to consume.

The stories are quite interesting. Some of the failed attempts don't come off like a lack of trying or commitment--but I don't understand some peoples reasoning. If you can shove 100 misc prescription or illegal pills down your throat, put a plastic bag on your head; secure it with a rubber band around your neck and hope you die by asphyxiation before liver failer. Why the hell can't you shoot 3 grams of heroin straight and go out in one helluva trip? You'll never feel heart and respiratory failure that way.


exodus: If you don't mind me asking how were you going to do it?


keep take a gander http://www.satanservice.org/coe/suicide/guide/#I.A

a bullit is much easier.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

try it let me know how it works for you.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

I more think that the people trying to stop people from committing suicide are the selfish ones...

At least in the medical scenarios. After all, I'm not about to debate the morality of it, or the moral implications, but really, in a lot of cases, the reason why people don't want their loved ones to commit suicide are laughable IMHO. I mean really, I doesn't matter how loved ones die--they do and they will. I think a bigger problem is coping with death than suicides, because humanity in general has an irrational fear of it.

I'll check out your link when I get home, Sizz-a-rino

GAM: that's my point. I think people need to look at the why people are compelled to do the axct of suicide and look less on the act itself. Otherwise, how is that going to stop you?

Still, i think if you're in jail, what';s the problem with offing yourself?




Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

true if inmates want to eat a bullitt hey great that way they are no longer a drain on the
already over crowed prison system.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Instead of making more prisons, why not more schools? Is it surprising that over 60% of the prison population is functionally illterate and incapable of minor mathematical calculation?

BTW...

Bullet:


Bullitt:






Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

^^^^hahahaha Nice one.


I think that religion may have a major role to play in the suicidal tendencies. Although loved ones may seem 'selfish' according to KOTL but, they may just be protecting them (in their eyes) from an endless suffering in hell.


People should be allowed to commit suicide, IMO. If it is their wish to die then so be it. I will not stop them, I only think that they should do it peacefully and quietly and not go out in blazing 'glory.'


____________________________________________________________________

Madjack wrote:Like I said before, building an engine like ours (2.2 or 2200) is a painstaking chore , since there is so few custom made parts. It's frustrating to me too, but that's what I like about doing this engine, it's the challenge.

thats great! thanks i always said i kant spell. anyway schools are a great idea but you have to relize the mentality of certain minority groups. they look at sucsess in school as being stupid. i know sounds backwards but it s true. if your good
in school and live in most inner cities then youve sold out to "the man" or whatever
there calling the school system and teachers these days. but this is for a different post. not haveing a proper ed. is just an excuse. if these kids were actualy taught instead of just being pushed thru school things might be different. but for the dumb ones allready there who want a BULLET give it to them. maybe we can start over and do better with the next generation. if not oh well try try again.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

I don't see how preventing one's suicide necessarily constitutes selfishness. In some cases, you are right. But not all suicidal preventions are self focused. If a delusional and mentally ill patient comes strolling into our ED and is yelling that he is going to kill himself, should we permit this? Thus, a major issue - competency. You might argue that it is irrelevant, but I think each individual should be consciously aware of what he/she is saying, competent, rational, and autonomous. Prevention should be taken when the individual has no rational understanding of what he/she is saying. This is not necessarily selfish. It is focusing on the individual since there is a lack of competency. We all have our 'moments' where we act irrationally or are unable to control our emotions. Does that mean in these instances the thought of suicide is rational and permissible? In short, people can live their lives as they want. But I don't think people need to take their lives without any rational thought behind it.

My $.02

Sizzy (Teh Sizzah!) wrote:
exodus: If you don't mind me asking how were you going to do it?

I slashed the hell out of both of my wrists with a razor. I thought I was alone, but my girlfriend at the time came over just to "see how I was doing". So not only was my feeling of being alone and uncared for wrong, I also got caught and into major @!#$.

In that respect, bob, i look at it like i look at religion:

You're permitted to offer to help once, after that, if they're not intrested, you have to aquiesce to the fact that you can't save them. It's like this, if i walked into a room and someone i knew, or even didn't know, had a gun to their head, yes, i would try to tlk them down or stop them from redecorating the walls with grey matter, but i woukld try to find out "why". Aside from the "Dealing with death", the big suidice issue is what causes people to think as such.

On the medical aspect of things, it is selfish--to force a loved one to live in torment than let them go gracefully because you can't deal with death.

J2nr:
Again, with religion, it's a degree of solicitation--once, to see if there is common ground, and if not, be on your way and if nothing else, pray for their soul. I still think that forced intervention is selfish no matter what the reason.

Jackalope/GAM:

Ford--the other white meat


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

Cowards, and selfish pansies.. That's what they are.

If people can live in conditions as found in south east Asia, or sub-saharan Africa, what is soo bad.. Ooo you lost you big house.. oh, you're in some pain.. Oh my, you girlfriend cheated on you? WTF is wrong with you. These people need to be bitch slapped into the real world. Life isn't so bad. Just grow up.

Anyone who wants to take their own life has a mental problem, the same as anyone who wants to take someone else's life.

Whiney greedy, selfish, boo hoo cry babies who need to grow up.

Suicide is a cop-out. A way to avoid dealing with your problems. So many people have it soo much worse than 99% of those who attempt suicide it's rediculas. They need mental help. They need couselling or whatever, but most of all, they need a reality check. Sadly, many suicides are simple hormonal problems found in teenagers. How many of you who have attempted it, or just thought about it (I'm in that group) were teens at the time? I bet a lot. As a teen, you don't have the life experience to know better and your body chemistry is messed up. Of course someone should stop you. You will change your mind later, and if you were successful, uyou wouldn't have that opportunity.

Now buck up and make something usefull of yourself. Try helping others, nothing feels quite as good as that.

PAX

Ah, thats a brutal attempt. Well atleast you were proven wrong and have obviously recovered.

Everyone has the right to live therefore everyone has the right to die. Thats something no one can take away from you. The only time people go to an institution is if they get caught or fail.

I think suicide should be legalized and we should have places where people can go to get assistance. Dr. Kevorkian had it right and was a saviour to many. But no, no, we can put our pets out of their misery but not our people. I say as long as you sign on the dotted line and are declared capable of making an informed decision more power to you.

jackalope- So how much crack did your mom do when she was knocked up with you? Just because you're a bitter illiterate 32 year old man who can barely remember to put pants on because you have the mental capacity of a rock, doesn't mean you have to be rude and suggest I shoot myself. I think thats your low self-esteem talking and perhaps you should take a bullet to the brainstem. I certainly hope you haven't used your mighty retard sperm to spawn other useless beings in this already handicapped society. I want to see a person who 'kant' spell go keyboard ape@!#$, this should be good dance for me monkey dance!

Keeper-

I still don't agree. I believe that there are times when suffering is outweighed by the good that would result for the patients. Likewise, they are not necessarily being tormented by continuing to live. Just because we go through hard times and appear tormented by the hardships of life does not mean that we should kill ourselves. My goal is to help people.

I think there is a lot of irrationality in human beings. In the case of suicide, there are instances where rational people contemplate suicide and proceed with it. Yet, I don't agree with allowing irrational people kill themselves. How do we know that their judgment is not just clouded by psychosocial struggles? If their judgment is clouded, I don't think they ought to kill themselves.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Quote:

I think suicide should be legalized and we should have places where people can go to get assistance.

I think wanting to commit suicide is an individual problem, something personal. I don't think there should be places allowed to "help" those who want to resort to that. After all, they are again, your problems.

Quote:

But no, no, we can put our pets out of their misery but not our people.

A person that is "on their last leg" is usually allowed to pass away. That goes with that saying of "pulling the plug". It's the same for a pet. If they are injured in a way that will prevent them from leading a life other than miserable, they are put out of their misery. Question though....Do you believe the life of a pet can be compared to the life of a human?




"Speak the truth, and leave immediately after"
"The urge to save Humanity is almost ALWAYS a false front for the urge to rule"
"He who knoweth things as they are and not as they are said or seem to be, he truly is wise, and is taught of God more than of men."

Quote:

I think wanting to commit suicide is an individual problem, something personal. I don't think there should be places allowed to "help" those who want to resort to that. After all, they are again, your problems.

Agreed we dont need to help them kill themselves, we just shouldnt stop it if they choose to do so. But they should have a means of doing it that isnt messy like eating a bullet.

Quote:

A person that is "on their last leg" is usually allowed to pass away. That goes with that saying of "pulling the plug". It's the same for a pet. If they are injured in a way that will prevent them from leading a life other than miserable, they are put out of their misery. Question though....Do you believe the life of a pet can be compared to the life of a human?

Of course if a person is bed ridden and unable to speak, then it would be the choice of the closest relatives to "pull the plug" and if they dont feel they can decide that then that person will live even though they want to die. Like if they had cancer or something.


____________________________________________________________________

Madjack wrote:Like I said before, building an engine like ours (2.2 or 2200) is a painstaking chore , since there is so few custom made parts. It's frustrating to me too, but that's what I like about doing this engine, it's the challenge.

Quote:

But they should have a means of doing it that isnt messy like eating a bullet.

And again, that is not the responsibility of anyone other than the person who wants to commit suicide. Don't involve anyone other than yourself since you're thinking only about yourself when you do something like that. If they can't supply the means themselves whether it be messy or not, then why should someone else be accountable for ensuring their success?



"Speak the truth, and leave immediately after"
"The urge to save Humanity is almost ALWAYS a false front for the urge to rule"
"He who knoweth things as they are and not as they are said or seem to be, he truly is wise, and is taught of God more than of men."

Quote:

Do you believe the life of a pet can be compared to the life of a human?

According to the PITA PETA brigade, yes.

Hahahaha wrote:If people can live in conditions as found in south east Asia, or sub-saharan Africa, what is soo bad..

That's like comparing Bill Gates to Hillbilly Jim-Bob-Billy-Joe-Cletus. You go live in the same conditions found in SE Asia or Mid Africa and see if you sing the same tune.

What I'm saying is that if those people are not sucidal, what the hecks a suicidal person's trouble.. All they need to realize is that whatever trouble they have, it is minor compared to a great number of other people's problems. Like I said before, many suicides are committed by teens who are in hormone flux and are just discovering some of life's bumps for the first time. Loosing that first girlfriend hurts way more than loosing the 5th. Of course they should be stopped, they just begun to live, it's no where near time to die. They need help living, not help dying.

PAX

Regarding Suicide,

READ: The Myth of Sisyphus by Albert Camus

One of the best books I have read in a long time.

It is an essay... 100pgs or so... on the roll of suicide in existential thought.





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