WHy do so many Non CHristians keep bringing up the fact that they are not CHristian or that they hate seeing people talk about Christanity?
If you dont like it why do you keep bringing it up. Can you not ignore it?
Now I understand that if a Chrsitian were to shuve it in your face then you have a reason to express your opinion.
BUt why must some people feel a need to make fun of someone elses beleifs? Does it make the person feel better about themselves when they make fun? Do you think a CHristian will just stop beleiving because they are made fun of? SHould I start making fun of non beleivers in hopes that they will join my side? I dont think so.
You will never see me shuve me beleifs apon any of you. I feel thats the wrong way to go about doing it. THat just pushes people away.
You will also never see me making fun of whatever things you beleive in, practice, ect.
Its not my place to judge.
I am all that is man
Well, I think that most of us are just pissed because we lose a half-day of cartoons on Sunday...
J/k
I don't force my belief system on others... I merely rebut what in flapped in my face. Personally, I'm not going to snip at anyone's ideals (unless they're blatantly ignorant or harmful to others), because doing so would first, lower me to someone else's level, and second, leave my beliefs open to the same attacks.
I have no problems with Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Pagans, or what not as long as they don't ask me to do anything other than tolerate their ideals, because while I find them interesting, I don't buy it for a minute. The second you start telling me to approve of them, or worse, join in, then I get pissy, I admit it. I just get ticked because it's as though someone who has (insert religious tome title here) in hand expects me to 100%, reject everything I've learned and follow their way because it's the "right" way. I deal with these people like I deal with telemarketers: If I'm that interested, I'll call okay? If I want it, I'll look for it, I don't need someone rattling off at the mouth (or fingers as the case may be) about religion X because, frankly, I've studied it... and if I found it that interesting or if it called to me, I'd follow.
Other than that, I'm not going to say that anyone is right or wrong (theologically speaking of course), I'll impart what I know, and leave you to make your own decisions, because you're a grown-up and can deal with outside facts that may take the shine off all things religious, but if you truly believe, what I tell you will not diminish that belief, because... it's you choice. Just like it's my choice to not follow your ideals if I so choose.
I respect your right to follow whatever you want to, and you respect my right to follow whatever path I want... Why? because we're our own people... I draw the line at condemning people because they don't share a certain view of reality... that's just plain ignorance. I may be a bastard, but I respect your right to do what you want.. Just don't ask me to join in mmkay?
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
I like that GAM.
Got a little story. Its my post so Im telling it.
ONe night I was walking into a pool hall with a group of guys.
THis "Bible Thumper" came running up telling us that if we went in we were all going to hell. ONe of my friends went off on the guy and I just asked my friends to keep walking in and ignore him.
I ask the "Bible thumper" what his problem was. ANd asked if his way of spreading the word of God actualy worked. He had nothing to say.
I apologized to my friends and we went our merry way. THey said that type of guy is the reason for there not wanting be a CHristian. They thaught thats the way you had to be.
Its sad really and it hurts me to see those types.
I am all that is man
GAM.... I love you. j/k man, you have some good ideas though... I suppose that would be the elder in you?
But I think it's senseless attention-leeching going on. Maybe one post, but that many is quite ridiculous. People want to be heard, so I guess they just feel like throwing their opinion out there.....
-Jason
Well, there are attention whores in every area... it's a need to be heard etc...
In my mind, a lot of people that thump the (insert religious tome title here) and spout condemnation need to get acquainted with the phrases:
- "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar"
and
- "There's a time and a place for everything. "
Again, I'm not going to get down on any one religion because there are blowhards from all of them and they all think they're right... again, I preach only tolerance because in the end, they're all more full of shjt than a whale with no ass hole, and we're all equal pains in the ass in the eyes of whatever deity we so choose to worship.
Knowing that, why make yourself more of a pain in the ass with people that can actually "connect" with you? (and not in a meaningful way)
I've known a muslim that has interrupted a nice conversation I was haveing with him to pray to Allah, and that's fine... did he get upset at me for not making praise as well? No... Why? He respected my ideals, and let him on his own to follow his ideals... I've asked about it, learned what I could... I don't follow it, and I don't understand it all, but as long as no-one is getting hurt and you feel the religion, who am I to argue? Same thing with devout Christians... I know lots, and for the most part, there's no animosity because I don't choose to follow the same path... They make their decision, I make mine, we're here on the same earth, so why let something like what way you worship God become a stumbling stone? I'd go on, but really, for the Jews, Hindus and Buddhists I know.. it's the same thing.
I find that people that have to press their religious ideals on others are either consumed with needing to "save" everyone, or really have that little common respect for others... To give a for-instance, I worked with Compaq, and one of my instructors was a born-again Christian... Nice guy, decent speaker, and he half-way knew his shjt (not a remarkable feat, but still, kinda rare with the Compaq training staff). Now, I'm on the job for a few weeks, and he passes by my desk, and leaves me a flyer about his prayer group... I'm say, "You can give this to someone else, I don't follow an organised religion." He didn't get the hint... he started lecturing me... I tuned him out... I was working. He then said that I'd be going to hell if I rejected God (Catch more with honey than vinegar). I told him I do not reject God, I've never met him, her, it, or them: I reject your interpretation of a tome that is incomplete and has been adulterated since the outset. He was more than a little aghast. I then told him to minister elsewhere, because I'm WORKING (Time and place for everything).
To condense 2 years into a sentence, I still treated him the same way I did when I met him because other than that one incident, he's still a decent person... I told him afterwards about a few of the books I'd read about the bible, and the time of Jesus, and gave him the books to read himself... Did he give up his faith in God, no, and I would have probably felt like shjt if he had because I forced him to it... No, he still believed, but he learned a lot of the back story behind God, the Devil, Satan (<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679731180/qid=1113448941/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/103-2028600-7586241?v=glance&s=books&n=507846">not the same thing</a>
, and the bible... He still believed, although, he got the picture about forcing your ideals on others (parenthetically, he'd never learned about the Jesuit missions to Mohawk and Iriquois tribes and their... nasty demise). If others are interested, they'll want to learn.. that's the way to know if you believe, or if you're just acting in a show.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Quote:
WHy do so many Non CHristians keep bringing up the fact that they are not CHristian or that they hate seeing people talk about Christanity?
The same can be said for Christians. Why must non-believers of the faith be forced to listen and abide by the doctrines of Christianity???
I say "forced" because, how many national holidays are centered around the Christian faith??? Easter and Christmas come to mind. How many national holidays are centered around Beltaine??? Or Imbolc???
How many times do you see a picture of Jesus or a religious sermon televised during Easter??? Have you ever seen a Wiccan coven celebrating the ancients and the cycle of life durin Samhain shown on tv ever???
Do you see information about church groups and meetings posted around a community??? How would the "normal" populace react if an announcement of a pagan gathering to celebrate the miracles of the god and goddess during Beltaine???
Until you criticize others for sharing their beliefs, remember that those of other, poly-theistic religions, must hear about your beliefs on an almost daily basis. They would also catch serious flak from some for sharing their beliefs in the same way that is perpetuated by Christians as a whole.
Tolerence is essential to complete understanding and acceptance. You can listen to a Wicca tell of his rituals and Book Of Shadows, and accept that his beliefs are different from yours, but if you were to just criticize and push your beliefs onto him, nothing but resentment and confusion has been accomplished.
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Both Christmas and Easter are timed to coincide with pegan holidfays.. SO there... Now you must read about the founding fathers of the religion and why they timed Christian holidays to fall on pegan dates. Something to do with lions... hmmm...
Easter? Ever heard of Eastress (sp). The godess of fertility? It's a spring rite, as Christmas fall very near the winter solstace.. Curious..
PAX
OK, here we go...how about this:
GAM says that as long as he has to do nothing more than tolerate us, then he's fine. Roofy says that he's fed up with Christianity being shoved in his face, and what about giving equal face time to the other religions (or something along those lines).
We Christians have it good. Those of us that don't agree with the "in your face" method of ministering can sit back and say that because we don't agree with it, then you can't lump us in with the group that does and see us as all the same. So it's people like me that GAM can, at the very least, tolerate us. At the same time, Christianity does have those people that are so emphatic about Christianity that they will do just about anything to ensure that the US doesn't go to hell (according to our beliefs). While I fully agree with the end result, I don't agree with the method.
So....(still following me?), Christians, especially the ones who don't get in your face and scream damnation, are able to be tolerated by most of the population, while at the same time we don't have to listen about other religions getting shoved in our face....mainly because of the other side of the spectrum. We have the best of both worlds.
...and since I'm not the most proficient at writing down my thoughts in the most organized fashion, I hope that all of you got my point. That Christians have it good.
By the way, this post is merely an observation. If you want to get upset, go ahead, but don't blame me.
I can only speak about what I know, so I won't try to explain the non-Christian perspective. All Christians, regardless of their "sect" are called upon to witness for their faith. In the words of the Bible, "Go out and spread the good news of the Lord!" Some sects interpret this to mean actively going out and preaching to anybody that will listen, a very "in your face" type of proselytizing. Others believe that they can better get the message out by their actions and the way they live their lives.
I prefer the latter to the former because I believe that it's disrepectful to try to force your beliefs on others. The bottom line in my mind is that regardless of your beliefs, as long as we treat each other with respect and dignity that's all that really matters. It's about how you conduct yourself, not about how you worship or who you worship with or even if you worship at all.
If people spent more time worrying about how they were living their lives and less time worrying about how everybody else was living the world would be a far better place. Treat others how you wish to be treated!
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Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
damn was going to add more
its also easier to ridicule a person when you see them as a group of people and not as a single seperate person. kind of why most people who do post on here wouldnt say allot of things they say if it were a one on one conversation. its allot easier to rip on god lovers versus ripping on esb himself. even though that wont stop some for personal attacks because its so easy to do on the internet.
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WOW great replies so far. No one is going nuts.
Roofy----who is forcing you to celebrate CHristmas and Easter? WHo is forcing you to look at pics of Jesus? WHo forces you to watch tv shows about him?
Many times I find myself surounded by non CHristian things, people who worship other Gods, ect. I dont go crazzy. I put myself in that situation so I simply make the choice to myself out of it.
Ive been at car meets talking with a group of people. I end up finding out that they are all Pagans. DO I feel like im being forced to listen to them? No I can simply walk away.
Nothing is being forced on you.
I am all that is man
Just live your life the way you want to- Christian or not, and let it be.
You may as well argue about blacks and whites, USA and Canada, coke and pepsi. Nonsense, complete nonsense.
If you dont believe in God, fine. I do. You may not love Jesus, but I do, and I love you too regardless.
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I like blacks and whites
Never been to Canada but have seen pics and it seems pretty
I like COke and Pepsi
And I love you Steveo
I am all that is man
steveo wrote:If you dont believe in God, fine. I do. You may not love Jesus, but I do, and I love you too regardless.
Just as long as you on't get any on me...you know how hard it is to was it out of clothing???
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The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Noone is "forcing" me to celebrate those holidays, but what if I wanted to go to Wal-Mart??? Or the Post Office??? You get the point.
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Walmart only closes on holidays because it HAS to. If it didn't, old Sam would have it open every stupid day of the year.
Corporations only worship denominations of Money.
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because its funny
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Quote:
what about every store that generally closes at 9pm and doesnt open till 8am ? you'd thnk that would touch a nerve allot more then two days out of the year........
Hence, that's why we have Wal-Mart Super Center!!!
Anyways, my point I'm trying to make is, wether they want to or not, Pagans, Atheists, and the like don't have the luxury of spreading the word of their religion, or lack of. Most tv networks have an unwritten rule that they stay away from alternative religions or beliefs that go against the ingrained psyche of most Americans, even FOX. They are directed by an overly opressive, mindless, faceless organization that somehow dictates what we can and can't watch on our own TV's. (Read: FCC) Even the thought of open and flamboyant homosexuality on tv and in the media was relatively taboo until the mid 90's.
Since the "election" of Bush in 2000, the American populace has gradually been indulated with his administration's warped sence of "moral values" He even said that Wicans and other Pagans shouldn't be allowed to practice their religion in the military!!! They're good enough for him to send off to Iraqistan and Afghaniraq, but if they want to worship their beings of choice, they're looked down upon!!! What kind of "moral values" is that???
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Morality comes from Morons.
The Moral, religions, and conservative right....isn't. (not that the immoral, irreligious, and liberal is any less wrong).
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The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
aj87hatch wrote:I can only speak about what I know, so I won't try to explain the non-Christian perspective. All Christians, regardless of their "sect" are called upon to witness for their faith. In the words of the Bible, "Go out and spread the good news of the Lord!" Some sects interpret this to mean actively going out and preaching to anybody that will listen, a very "in your face" type of proselytizing. Others believe that they can better get the message out by their actions and the way they live their lives.
I prefer the latter to the former because I believe that it's disrepectful to try to force your beliefs on others. The bottom line in my mind is that regardless of your beliefs, as long as we treat each other with respect and dignity that's all that really matters. It's about how you conduct yourself, not about how you worship or who you worship with or even if you worship at all.
If people spent more time worrying about how they were living their lives and less time worrying about how everybody else was living the world would be a far better place. Treat others how you wish to be treated!
Best post ever. People get upset because you get people who try and force you to believe in their certain sect, when really, I don't believe that disrespectfulness and "believe it or you suck" mentality will get anyone to believe.
I think I like this thread. It's one of the most respectful and mature posts in the War Forum in a while.
Quote:
How many times do you see a picture of Jesus or a religious sermon televised during Easter??? Have you ever seen a Wiccan coven celebrating the ancients and the cycle of life durin Samhain shown on tv ever???
What can I say - supply and demand.
So you can't go to Walmart on Christmas - so what? Go to Walgreens etc instead. What is/isn't open any particular day isn't mandated by and religion, it's the individual choice of companies as to if they're open or not. Usually companies CHOOSE not to be open on Christmas for one reason - because a signifigant number of their employees strongly desire that day off.
But still I think what should/shouldn't be a Federal holiday should be put to a vote(as this is supposed to be a democracy).
I've never heard of this "part throttle" before. Does it just bolt on?
