Repair damaged clearcoat without repaint? - Exterior Forum

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Repair damaged clearcoat without repaint?
Thursday, March 15, 2007 12:26 PM
Last summer I removed my car's side moulding pieces, and definitely do not regret the cleaner look it achieved. Unfortunately the process resulted in some minor knicks and scratches, and worse -- the clearcoat layer came off with it. I can hide the defect pretty well with a fresh coat of wax, but the area seems to attract dirt. I'm also concerned that I'm taking off a little bit of the paint each time I clean it, since I get a tiny bit of 'red' on the rag each time.

Now, is there anything I can do here that will strike a balance between a complete repaint and doing something totally half-assed? I've got a can of Duplicolor Truck/Van/SUV clear top coat. I know spraypaint and cars don't mix, but is it possible I could get away with cleaning, applying rattle-can clear, and doing some fine sanding? Any comments and suggestions would be appreciated.






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Re: Repair damaged clearcoat without repaint?
Thursday, March 15, 2007 12:44 PM
put down the rattle can and step away.............................
if you say the clear came off then the door was repainted factory clear isnt going to come off , sounds to me like the car might have to be repainted
take it to a shop and get some estimates


can i haz bondo
Re: Repair damaged clearcoat without repaint?
Thursday, March 15, 2007 12:49 PM
The car has been in the family since it was new. If there has been a repaint, it's news to me. Also, I've got a couple of small spots were I can see the bare metal. There doesn't appear to be more than a single paint layer.



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Re: Repair damaged clearcoat without repaint?
Thursday, March 15, 2007 12:55 PM
big daddy wrote:put down the rattle can and step away.............................



x2





Re: Repair damaged clearcoat without repaint?
Thursday, March 15, 2007 2:02 PM
I sort of figured that would be the consensus, and I completely understand.

However, the rest of the paint is beautiful for a 10-year old car. I very much doubt I can either afford or justify major repainting when I suspect I'm going to see rust take hold in the next few years anyways. I've blown my money on mods or upgrades that I can take with me to a new car, or sell easily. Professionally painting a car that is worth next to nothing simply isn't a good investment.

With that in mind, I sort of figure with clearcoat, "how much worse could I possibly make it?". It's currently a trough that collects dirt, and will probably make a lovely rust stripe within a few seasons. I might sand too much and damage the color coat -- well, that wouldn't be the first place I've had to touch up. It might not come out completely smooth -- but it will probably be an improvement. As much respect as I have for those of you with showroom paintjobs, and the people with the skill to provide them, my goal is simply to deal with imperfections that draw attention from more than 10 feet away. I'm not fooling anyone closer than that anyways.

So, once the weather stays above freezing for any length of time, I'm probably still going to try something on my own. I'd still welcome any advice on how to reduce my odds of royally screwing it up, or suggestions on a better DIY procedure.



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Re: Repair damaged clearcoat without repaint?
Thursday, March 15, 2007 6:26 PM
cant teach you how to be a body man/painter online sorry its not going to happen, i could sit here for an hour typing and typing it will do ya no good
this needs hands on experience not cyber experince


can i haz bondo
Re: Repair damaged clearcoat without repaint?
Friday, March 16, 2007 4:14 AM
Here's a close-up of what I have to contend with. The cleaner area in the middle is where I quickly rubbed off some of the dirt and salt with my finger. The edges of the remaining clearcoat are slowly receding and peeling, which would no doubt make for a difficult area to clean up enough to get a good bond.



I was thinking in general I might:
- Clean
- Sand
- Prime any bare metal, sand, repeat
- Touch up, sand, repeat, polish
- Clear, sand, repeat, polish

In any case, I'll likely have picture updates on this situation, regardless of what I end up doing. This event is scheduled for warmer weather. Those who "told me so" are welcome to attend.



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Re: Repair damaged clearcoat without repaint?
Friday, March 16, 2007 4:50 AM
seriously just take it to a shop and have them paint that area. you doing it yourself is only going to make it worse. if you dont know anything about painting, dont rattle can it. just take it somewhere. its better to spend the money and have it done right then save money and having to keep redoing it. in the long run you'll probably spend the same amount anyway.



Re: Repair damaged clearcoat without repaint?
Friday, March 16, 2007 6:16 AM
What should I look for in a quote to repaint those areas? They would probably have to do the entire door and rear quarter, wouldn't they? Probably several hundred dollars, especially if they do a proper base/clear process, no?

I guess the real question is-- would repainting those areas professionally be any more costly if I do f*** it up first? Seems like $30 of supplies and some wasted time would be a small price to pay for some experience, good or bad. If I get lucky, wonderful. If not, I'm faced with the same problem.



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Re: Repair damaged clearcoat without repaint?
Friday, March 16, 2007 7:19 AM
put the side moldings back on and call it a day.

then... when u have enough money to get some paint work, take em back off and have the work done.

i know it sounds bad n all because u love the way it looks w/o them, but IMO, it would look better with them at this point.




Re: Repair damaged clearcoat without repaint?
Friday, March 16, 2007 8:04 AM
go with some newer cav molding. and walk away!


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Re: Repair damaged clearcoat without repaint?
Friday, March 16, 2007 8:16 AM
Makes sense -- I did keep the molding, so I could do that. I'd just need to find some good 2-sided tape I guess. Then again, I could still have my fun to mess up the paint, and cover most of the mistake with the molding anyways. Oh, decisions, decisions.

Anyways, thanks for the input guys. Even if the only suggestion I got was "don't".



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Re: Repair damaged clearcoat without repaint?
Friday, March 16, 2007 8:30 AM
i say experiment on a little part of it, and make sure the molding covers it up.

nothing like trial and error.
Re: Repair damaged clearcoat without repaint?
Friday, March 16, 2007 8:45 AM
Are you sure that you have removed all of the tape? When you run your hand from top to bottom of the car door, when you come into contact with the suspected "missing clearcoat" does it feel like a bump or a dip? From the 1 picture provided and the fact that it collects dirt fast, it is telling me that you have not gotten all of the 2 sided tape off of the car. Use goo-gone or similar product and prepare for some really sore fingers and blisters !
Re: Repair damaged clearcoat without repaint?
Friday, March 16, 2007 9:10 AM
Chris Easton wrote:Are you sure that you have removed all of the tape? When you run your hand from top to bottom of the car door, when you come into contact with the suspected "missing clearcoat" does it feel like a bump or a dip? From the 1 picture provided and the fact that it collects dirt fast, it is telling me that you have not gotten all of the 2 sided tape off of the car. Use goo-gone or similar product and prepare for some really sore fingers and blisters !


thats what i was thinking too. from that close up pic it looks like there is still adhesive left. mine looked the same way until i took some adhesive and label remover too it. if in fact it is the clear though i would just put the moldings back on. your car has seen alot of sun and had some years on it, a painter would have to do one hell of a blend job on the car and you still would probally tell that door was resprayed.



Re: Repair damaged clearcoat without repaint?
Friday, March 16, 2007 9:11 AM
Chris Easton wrote:Are you sure that you have removed all of the tape? When you run your hand from top to bottom of the car door, when you come into contact with the suspected "missing clearcoat" does it feel like a bump or a dip? From the 1 picture provided and the fact that it collects dirt fast, it is telling me that you have not gotten all of the 2 sided tape off of the car. Use goo-gone or similar product and prepare for some really sore fingers and blisters !

Thanks for the suggestion -- and don't believe I didn't try it! I actually got into trouble in a couple of spots when I struck bare metal. Goo-Gone softened the remaining paint to where it was rediculously easy to scratch and chip. The area is definitely a dip, and I remember having to deal with long strips of plasticy-clear material that was still stuck to the adhesive of the molding. The stuff peeled away like skin after a sunburn, and littered the floor. The color coat that remains is still relatively unprotected.



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Re: Repair damaged clearcoat without repaint?
Friday, March 16, 2007 10:11 AM
Chris Easton wrote:Are you sure that you have removed all of the tape? When you run your hand from top to bottom of the car door, when you come into contact with the suspected "missing clearcoat" does it feel like a bump or a dip? From the 1 picture provided and the fact that it collects dirt fast, it is telling me that you have not gotten all of the 2 sided tape off of the car. Use goo-gone or similar product and prepare for some really sore fingers and blisters !

Thats what it looks like to me too.



Re: Repair damaged clearcoat without repaint?
Friday, March 16, 2007 10:56 AM
The area is definitely lacking a layer of material -- it's not anything extra that was left behind. I can rake my fingernail over loose material at the top edge, going upward. Or the bottom edge, going downward.




Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Friday, March 16, 2007 11:58 AM


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Re: Repair damaged clearcoat without repaint?
Friday, March 16, 2007 12:54 PM
factory clear doesnt come off? what about on the B-pillars? mine started at the top and was working its way down, looking to get some pillar covers from izntrbl come summer.
Re: Repair damaged clearcoat without repaint?
Friday, March 16, 2007 4:30 PM
Factory clear doesn't come off...? Tell that to my old 93 LeSabre that lost most of its clear over time. The paint was also well maintained as well.
Re: Repair damaged clearcoat without repaint?
Friday, March 16, 2007 7:24 PM
go with the 03' and up molding. they look better, and its probably your best bet man. for the cheap way of doin' it!


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Re: Repair damaged clearcoat without repaint?
Saturday, March 17, 2007 10:25 AM
Geeky wrote:
Anyways, thanks for the input guys. Even if the only suggestion I got was "don't".



There's a reason for your responses being "don't". This is long, but I'm going to explain everything to you.

Allow me to explain why rattle cans are the devil.

So you have this can in your hand, with paint in it. Ever stop to think why the shelf life is so long? Rattle can paint, when sprayed, never REALLY dries. It'll dry to the touch, but it doesn't really dry like automotive grade paints do. Here's a story.

When I was working at the body shop that taught me everything I knew, we had a 2002 (pretty new at the time) Chevy S10 extreme truck come in on a lease and had been sent to auction. The guy that leased the car tried to fix a 3 - 3 1/2" dent in the lower passenger side of the cab by filling it with body filler (not pulling the dent out), and using the "factory color" paint in a spray can. Now pay attention, this is why rattle cans are a no no....

I WENT THROUGH FIVE, YES FIVE GRINDER DISCS JUST GETTING THE DARN PAINT OFF!!!!!

That's not including the 3-3 1/2" of body filler under that I had to strip out to fix it the proper way. The reason rattle can paint doesn't REALLY dry even though it seems dry to the touch is because if it did, the shelf life would be very very short, thus leading to wasted cans of paint.

There is absolutely no way you're going to get that to look decent by just painting the part where the clear is off... you're going to have to repaint the whole door... period. Why you ask?

Picture it like this... paint thickness is measured in microns. Let's say you only paint/reclear/whatever the part under the moldings. Not only did you use rattle can stuff, but... ok let me explain it this way.

Let's say the paint thickness on your door is 5 microns (just pulling a number out of the air here). You "paint" and "reclear" the area under the moldings, unless you have the tool and means to measure the paint thickness, you're not going to get it to be the same thickness, and it's going to stand out like Paris Hilton in the ghetto. (like a sore thumb) Even if you did manage to get it to be the same thickness, since the clear wasn't sprayed on all at the same time, you're going to be able to tell VERY easily.

Even the most experienced of painters are going to have a hard time just painting one part of a door and making it look good... if not having it be damn near impossible. Even when "blending" areas that are painted, a professional painter still re-clears the whole panel. For example:

Let's say you have a dent at the part of your fender up against your door. When a painter "blends" the fender into the door, he/she repaints the fender, and then "blends" the paint into the first part of the door touching that fender. Even though the first 1/4 of the door has fresh paint on it, the remaining 3/4 of the door gets a nice new shiny clear coat.


ANYTHING automotive is something that you should not cheap out on. If APC made an engine replacement for your car... would you buy it... or get something that's going to be more reliable but cost more?

Bottom line, you get what you pay for. If you cheap out on the work, you're going to get just that... a cheap looking car. If you save up the money and do it the RIGHT way, you won't be disappointed. Look at my sticky at the top of the forum for some ideas on what to look for when going to a shop.

Shop around, get estimates, and MAKE SURE THE SHOP GUARANTEES THEIR WORK!!!!! As long as they guarantee their work, if something happens to the paint... they are responsible for fixing it on their dime. Make sure their guarantee is in writing, and also note that guarantees do not apply to rock chips and normal wear and tear on paint. If it peels off, that's covered. If the clear coat clouds up, that's covered (unless you didn't follow their post paint waxing instructions... i.e. DO NOT WAX for at LEAST 90 days after paint).


That my friend is why you're getting the "don't do it" replies. If it bothers you that much (you especially want to get that taken care of ASAP if there's bare metal showing... that's going to rust in no time, molding on or not), put the moldings back on and get it into a shop ASAP.

Keep in mind, odds are with it being red and the paint that old, they're probably going to have to blend your doors. Maybe not, but it's still a possibility. Red is one of those colors that fade quite easily, oh.... Yes red paints are more expensive than other colors, but a reputable shop is not going to charge you extra for the paint. (just another FYI)

The colors that "age" the worst IMHO are:

Red: fades pretty easily over time
White: fades and stains easily over time (most people don't notice because it's gradual... same for reds fading)
Black: believe it or not black fades as well. My 1st Sunfire was black (and stayed that way up until it was stolen)... it had half arsed body work on the drivers door, and when we fixed it and threw some paint over it temporarily until I was done fixing the fender, the black we sprayed on was black (durrr), but the black on the fender looked navy blue or something compared to the new black.

Red and white of course being the worst for "color matching". A lot of people don't realize there are literally probably hundreds of shades of whites to begin with... and you also have to consider the many "variances" of the same color. Variances are "shades", btw. The longer a color has been in production, the more variances it's likely to have because the likelyhood of everything being exact is not good... even if computer mixed. The tints and pigments used to mix paints could have a slight differences to them, ... there's many reasons for this.

Anyway, hope that helped, and hope you take it to an actual shop and get it fixed the right way.




Re: Repair damaged clearcoat without repaint?
Saturday, March 17, 2007 10:56 AM
Oh yeah, and how long a factory clear coat or paint job lasts also depends on how well it was maintained. The better maintained, the longer it will last.

It irks me on how many people don't regularly wax their cars because they don't feel like it. Wax has a purpose, it helps protect the paint. And also, just continually waxing the car without stripping the old wax off every now and then isn't good enough. Every now and then you need to strip the old wax off and put on a nice new coat of wax. Clay bars are good for this, it does strip your old wax off... and you NEED to wax afterwards. If you've never taken a clay bar to your car... you'rre missing out. My BRAND NEW 06 tC for example... a few months after I got it I clay bared and waxed the car... and even on brand new paint, it looked 50 times better than it did off the lot brand new. Simply amazing. The finish on my car (minus the factory orange peel which I'm not worried about because it's normal) looks like a freaking mirror.



The pic doesn't do it justice...





Re: Repair damaged clearcoat without repaint?
Saturday, March 17, 2007 12:23 PM
Fallen Angel wrote: [Red and white of course being the worst for "color matching". A lot of people don't realize there are literally probably hundreds of shades of whites to begin with... and you also have to consider the many "variances" of the same color. Variances are "shades", btw. The longer a color has been in production, the more variances it's likely to have because the likelyhood of everything being exact is not good... even if computer mixed. The tints and pigments used to mix paints could have a slight differences to them, ... there's many reasons for this.

Anyway, hope that helped, and hope you take it to an actual shop and get it fixed the right way.


Dont forget Silver



P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq

Re: Repair damaged clearcoat without repaint?
Saturday, March 17, 2007 4:58 PM
Thanks to Fallen Angel for all the typing. I'm not oblivious to the advantages of hiring a qualified painter, and I realize the reasons you provide are good ones. As I said, my car is getting to the point where the bigger problem will be the body-work required before a skilled painter would even touch it. The door sills and fender wells could already use some serious help -- and if I'm going to keep the car for the long term, a complete repaint is definitely in the cards. (Not to mention an engine swap -- mine is getting a bit tired, I think). So, in the short term I'm not afraid of a few cover ups. They'll either become someone else's problem when I sell, or they'll succumb to the sanding wheel if I get a repaint.



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