Theres a company called trifecta thats been doing tuning for the 2.2 eco cobalts and other models that may not be supported by hp tuners. They are adding things like launch control and many other things not included in the original pcm programming. So if theres some interest maybe they can give us all a solution thats better than going with standalones, untuneable gm flashes or faking 2 bar.

This is the link to the website
http://www.trifectaperformance.com/



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85

I've heard some great things about Trifecta.
A friend of mine with a Solstice GXP with the 2.0L turbo engine had a tune with Trifect and the no lift launch control is sweet.
He also gained power over the HPTuners that was originally tuning his car.
So far it looks to me that if you've got a 2008 or newer Eco turbo, Trifecta is the way to go from what I've seen personally in Houston and locally.
Nice stuff and look out HPT, you've finally got some competition.


Misnblu.com
Newbie member since 1999
Thank you Dave and JBO!

meh given the choice id still take hp tuners, but thats not an option for everyone



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85

James are you talking about chad cause I thought his was from a different company.

There a supercharged 4 door balt out here in houston that has a trifecta tune and the damn thing is a bat out of hell.

Rodimus Prime wrote:Theres a company called trifecta thats been doing tuning for the 2.2 eco cobalts and other models that may not be supported by hp tuners. They are adding things like launch control and many other things not included in the original pcm programming. So if theres some interest maybe they can give us all a solution other than going with standalones, untuneable gm flashes or faking 2 bar.

This is the link to the website
http://www.trifectaperformance.com/

I fixed up that post for you there^

Standalone ftw...there is nothing better. HPT is a band aid that you never seem to own.....credits......wtf is with that? F-that!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Saturday, April 18, 2009 10:59 PM

"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous

HHR support...wohoo!


PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO

Joshua Dearman wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:Theres a company called trifecta thats been doing tuning for the 2.2 eco cobalts and other models that may not be supported by hp tuners. They are adding things like launch control and many other things not included in the original pcm programming. So if theres some interest maybe they can give us all a solution other than going with standalones, untuneable gm flashes or faking 2 bar.

This is the link to the website
http://www.trifectaperformance.com/

I fixed up that post for you there^

Standalone ftw...there is nothing better. HPT is a band aid that you never seem to own.....credits......wtf is with that? F-that!

First off, I don't recommend Trifecta as its a "mail order" tune... Now in the real world, Standalone units would be the best for our platform, but not many people can get past emissions and want to pay the $$ for a good unit. As for HPT and the credit system, I don't see what is so wrong with it? I own many Model Year licenses. I think what they charge for their product is more then fair. Once the "credit" or "license" is purchased for your vehicle, it is yours forever... HPT is by far anything close to a "bandaid" as you call it. The Jbody PCMs suck (as for tables in them), but the LSJ/LSx stuff is a very superior product. To be honest, I feel there is more HPT can give us, but I am also happy that we atleast have some type of support. Mail order tunes suck. There are too many variables that are needed to be taken into the account, and a spot on tune is more than likely not going to be achieved....



P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq

Josh, Chad had a mail order tune.
He sent his PCM off, they tuned it, and sent it back.
I'll have to ask him about it but I thought that was what he was running.
When we were at the LoneStar bash, the yellow Sky there also had a tune in which he carried it over to Chads car for some extra punch to his GXP and a couple of things that were not in his tune from when he sent it off.
Again, not sure of the exact company that did the tune but I thought it was the Trifecta tune.
I also read Chads tune with HPT and couldn't see any VE logs or PE tables in which they got to play with if it would've been HPT that did the tune originally.
I'm still studying his tune and lost his data log when we went for a drive a week ago so I can't play with that either.
Next time Chads in town, I'll use one of my credits for his GXP and see if I can't do something with his tune.
I'm a damn newb with this so it's to be expected about losing his histogram. lol

ImPhat, I'd rather have HPT than nothing at all. I was going to originally go with MegaSquirt but decided to go with HPT instead.
I'm pretty happy with it even though we don't get to play with all the good stuff that the Eco engines do. But it's better than nothing.



Misnblu.com
Newbie member since 1999
Thank you Dave and JBO!

ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000 wrote:

Joshua Dearman wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:Theres a company called trifecta thats been doing tuning for the 2.2 eco cobalts and other models that may not be supported by hp tuners. They are adding things like launch control and many other things not included in the original pcm programming. So if theres some interest maybe they can give us all a solution other than going with standalones, untuneable gm flashes or faking 2 bar.

This is the link to the website
http://www.trifectaperformance.com/

I fixed up that post for you there^

Standalone ftw...there is nothing better. HPT is a band aid that you never seem to own.....credits......wtf is with that? F-that!

First off, I don't recommend Trifecta as its a "mail order" tune... Now in the real world, Standalone units would be the best for our platform, but not many people can get past emissions and want to pay the $$ for a good unit.

Ok, MANY people have passed CA emissions testing with the MS and others. All you have to do is leave the factory setup running with resistors....the simplest thing ever.

ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000 wrote:As for HPT and the credit system, I don't see what is so wrong with it? I own many Model Year licenses. I think what they charge for their product is more then fair. Once the "credit" or "license" is purchased for your vehicle, it is yours forever... HPT is by far anything close to a "bandaid" as you call it.

How about:
1. Crappy support
2. No customer support that gives a $hit about our platform....if it's not an F-body question it gets thrown to the bottom of the pile again and again.
3. You NEVER own the damn thing...always have to buy credits for different cars....dumb

HPT is a bandaid...big power has been made but not very pretty. Serious power will not be possible with HPT.

ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000 wrote:The Jbody PCMs suck (as for tables in them), but the LSJ/LSx stuff is a very superior product. To be honest, I feel there is more HPT can give us, but I am also happy that we atleast have some type of support.

Why are so many people ok with getting $hit on? Just because it's the only PCM tuning method doesn't mean it has to be used....

ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000 wrote:Mail order tunes suck. There are too many variables that are needed to be taken into the account, and a spot on tune is more than likely not going to be achieved....

Agreed.




"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous

^To add, you know a full standalone can be had for less than the baseline HPT as well right?


"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous

Joshua Dearman wrote:^To add, you know a full standalone can be had for less than the baseline HPT as well right?

What standalone? Plug and play?



FU Tuning

The MS for example can be had for less than $250.00 which can already run boost which is a 1 up on the factory setup right there. Not to mention COP and the grocery list of other features you can't do on a factory setup. Plug n' play? Don't get me wrong, that's nice for a computer mouse but what does that really serve in the aftermarket automotive market? Then add $65.00 and you can run up to 44lbs of boost + have isobaric correction and for $25.00 have a boost controller......I just don't see how anybody can compete with that. O and I was wrong, for ~$15k you can actually own the HPT......that is so gay.

I don't like to deal with companies that don't give their all, I wont settle for less and I don't have to. HPT doesn't care about you, they want you to pay the bill and like it.....smile back. O, and if you have a problem, stuff it. Sorry but I can't work with them.....F-that.


To add, the MS is relatively plug n' play for the J aswell with the 7X reluctor decode native if you want to look at it that way. You can literally just attach wires and start tuning.





Edited 4 time(s). Last edited Sunday, April 19, 2009 5:16 PM

"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous

From my understanding MS requires wiring, so HPT is worth it to me. I own my HPT, and can tune my car for life. They can't take it from me it is mine. I also don;t want to have to build something like a Standalone. either.



FU Tuning

Joshua Dearman wrote: How about:
1. Crappy support
2. No customer support that gives a $hit about our platform....if it's not an F-body question it gets thrown to the bottom of the pile again and again.
3. You NEVER own the damn thing...always have to buy credits for different cars....dumb

HPT is a bandaid...big power has been made but not very pretty. Serious power will not be possible with HPT.

1. Crappy support? Please give more detail... I agree there is more to be had as far as support of more parameters, I constantly get into bitching arguments with Bill at HPT about it... Check their forums!

2. I don't necessarily disagree with you on this one. Fact of the matter is, the LSx is the bread and butter. I tune quite a few of these also. The tables that are available those PCMs is rediculous. Alot of it really does not need to be in there.

3. You DO own it. I don't see how you can say that you don't. The credit system is more than fair. Hell, they give you 8 credits starting out. That is enough for 1 model/year and another car on top of that (*if you are purchasing model/year for our platform)... With the HPT system you are able to USE it , since you OWN it on other platforms. It does not COST you ANYTHING to by another system, just a flat ONE TIME fee to gain access to that vehicle.... With MS, you only get to tune ONE car, the one that its hooked up to. MS can be nice, I have used it before, but it is nowhere near the best/nicest option out there. So many people bitch about HPT, but it seems that MOST of the ones bitching, not all of them but most, are the ones that either have no idea what they are really talking about, or just are not knowledgable enough to know how to make it work... Still disagree 100% about HPT being a bandaid though. I was able to tune Fetter's car to 487whp (dyno dynamics/heartbreaker #s) with ease. Translate that to Dynojet #s (+18% ) and you have roughly approx 574whp. I know I can get more out it with HPT also, but I also was very conservative with his tune and did not want to push it as we were on pump gas. To me, his car is making more than "big power" as you put it, as very few people will actually be able to build what he has or even afford to, especially on this site. There are honestly too many sh!t talkers that THINK they have something, but in reality its nothing more than a kit they had to ask 100 questions on this forum just to get the damn thing installed.... Not trying to offend anybody, but seriously, look at the boost/tuning forums. Most people on this site are lucky to see 300-350whp. Granted, that is on the SC reflash, but still very impressive, and all done with HPT. Hell, I put down almost 300whp on a stock bottom end LN2 using HPT. Must be one hell of a bandaid...



P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq

1. More detail = complete lack of give a $hit...what more do you need?

2. Exactly, either care as much or don't offer our platform IMO....why insult people?

3. I just hate the whole idea of continuously paying if you wanted to help people or anything with different models of cars......I can't accept that. If the hardware is mobile, why should you have to constantly pay to keep using it? That's like a CD you can only listen to 10 times before you have to pay again.

Also, your argument with MS is true, but your missing the fact that it can literally SPANK the factory functions...added value there. I too have used HPT, motec, MSD, MS, Spectra, and AEM...MS is by FAR the best option if your willing to learn how to use it to the fullest. It comes down to experience to like the MS.

Fetter is the exact person I used as my example of "Big power". Not to bring his name into this but he himself says it's a band-aid. He is looking for more out of his car and is going to be using a Spectre EMSPro (aka. megasquirt)

Sorry, I never classified the HPT's size of a band-aid....super-dooper size if that works for you.

I can walk up to ANY car with even a $150.00 MS1 and run massive options(staging, WI, Boost controller, Staged N2O, ect)....yeah, your leaving it in the car, but look at what you gain. When you compare HPT to that....HPT fails.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Sunday, April 19, 2009 8:01 PM

"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous

Joshua Dearman wrote:
Fetter is the exact person I used as my example of "Big power". Not to bring his name into this but he himself says it's a band-aid. He is looking for more out of his car and is going to be using a Spectre EMSPro (aka. megasquirt)

Actually, that is not 100% accurate. He is still on the fence about using it. I have also never heared Brandon say its a "band-aid", Myself and him both agree he is beyond its capabilities, but the reason for that is for what his future plans are for the car. I told him a long time ago that there is only so much I can do on the "safe" side. BTW, since you say you ahve used MoTeC, How did you like only having 8 hours of datalogging before having to buy the "simple password"... I have used all the same stuff you have, and probably a dozen more. MS is a cheap or less expensive option for many, but its nowhere near the best. The thing that mostly turns me off from it is the lack of SFI. Batch fire just does not cut it in all builds. I personally think TEC3 or DFI is the way to go, IF you can afford it...



P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq

Well, last week when I talked to him he is going to be using the eMSPro so........

Yes, the Motec is on the $hit list too....I'm just giving you reference of what I've used.
MS is SFI for 4 cyl....if you're so experienced you'd know that.(Sorry to do that to you but you wanted to pull the experience card)
Also, the Sequencer will do 8 cyl COP + SFI so.........

TEC3 is good, not many complaints, but I like the ability to make special circuits and program outputs and inputs to what I want...nobody but MS can do that. Other will let you run I/O events but not to the level the MS can.

ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000 wrote:Myself and him both agree he is beyond its capabilities, but the reason for that is for what his future plans are for the car. I told him a long time ago that there is only so much I can do on the "safe" side.

You should be a politician, how is this not EXACTLY what I said about HPT since the beginning just worded differently? Did I not say it can be used for big power but not serious power? I'm pretty sure I did and if I'm not mistaken that is exactly what you're saying ^here.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edited Monday, April 20, 2009 8:12 AM

"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous

You cannot compare a mail order tune on the LNF PCM to one on the Jbody PCM. The LNF has a MAF, WBO2 sensor, and two MAP sensors. Plus it has a @!#$load of PCM limits that will kick your ass if you do something wrong, so a mail order tune will either function awesomely or put you in limp mode, but the tuner would have to go out of his way to really damage your LNF.

The Jbody on the other had would be very hard to get good results with a mail order tune. We have minimal sensors/feedback from the PCM, and that's why a street tune with HPT will always yield better results on the Jbody PCM than a mail order tune.

I've tuned both, so I'm not just running my mouth...

Joshua Dearman wrote:Well, last week when I talked to him he is going to be using the eMSPro so........

Yes, the Motec is on the $hit list too....I'm just giving you reference of what I've used.
MS is SFI for 4 cyl....if you're so experienced you'd know that.(Sorry to do that to you but you wanted to pull the experience card)
Also, the Sequencer will do 8 cyl COP + SFI so.........

TEC3 is good, not many complaints, but I like the ability to make special circuits and program outputs and inputs to what I want...nobody but MS can do that. Other will let you run I/O events but not to the level the MS can.

ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000 wrote:Myself and him both agree he is beyond its capabilities, but the reason for that is for what his future plans are for the car. I told him a long time ago that there is only so much I can do on the "safe" side.

You should be a politician, how is this not EXACTLY what I said about HPT since the beginning just worded differently? Did I not say it can be used for big power but not serious power? I'm pretty sure I did and if I'm not mistaken that is exactly what you're saying ^here.

Dude, I don't know why you are trying to make this personal. I never once throew out an "experience" card toward you? I asked you a question about your thoughts about the MoTeC... Get the chip off your shoulder...

Another thing, I never once claimed to be the MS Guru. I will bet that you do have more experience with MS than me. I am not challenging that. I have used it in the past though. Its very easy to use, but I just don't thinks its the solution to all end... Last time I dealt with MS I found this to be very interesting...

Quote:

Sequential injection requires:

as many injectors as you have cylinder, with one dedicated to each cylinder (i.e., not a 4 injector TBI on a 4 cylinder).
as many injector drivers as you have cylinders,
and also requires a camshaft position sensor (a crank sensor is not adequate for a 4-stroke cycle engine).
MegaSquirt has just two injector drivers (that can handle up to ten injectors each), and no provisions for a cam sensor signal, so it would be difficult to make it into a sequential injection system.

The benefits of sequential injection are that:

you may get slightly better mileage and lower emissions at low engine speeds,
you can tune each cylinder's fuel amount independently (if you know how).

That was taken directly from MS site. If there have been updates, GREAT! I was not aware of them!

As for the politician remark, WTF mate? Did you not read all of my post? Currently the car runs great. As it sits, its making more power than 99% of the cars on this site! I would say he IS making SERIOUS power for an LD9, as only less than a handfull have came anywhere close. Most people consider 300whp big power, we are beyond that! For what he wants to do (IE: FUTURE/more boost/push the absolute limits of his engine), he is beyond the capabilities. Beyond that, this whole thread is pointless as it was made for Trifecta mail order tunes... I stated my feelings/opinions on the subject as you have also. I'm done having a pissing match about HPT vs MS, as there are plenty of other threads on it.



P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq

ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000 wrote:Dude, I don't know why you are trying to make this personal. I never once throew out an "experience" card toward you? I asked you a question about your thoughts about the MoTeC... Get the chip off your shoulder...

ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000 wrote:

Joshua Dearman wrote:I have used all the same stuff you have, and probably a dozen more.

O...you didn't? WTF is this then? If that's not a "I've done more than you have" statement I don't know what is. Very few if maybe no-one on this forum actually knows what I've done.

ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000 wrote:Another thing, I never once claimed to be the MS Guru. I will bet that you do have more experience with MS than me. I am not challenging that. I have used it in the past though. Its very easy to use, but I just don't thinks its the solution to all end... Last time I dealt with MS I found this to be very interesting...

Quote:


Sequential injection requires:

as many injectors as you have cylinder, with one dedicated to each cylinder (i.e., not a 4 injector TBI on a 4 cylinder).
as many injector drivers as you have cylinders,
and also requires a camshaft position sensor (a crank sensor is not adequate for a 4-stroke cycle engine).
MegaSquirt has just two injector drivers (that can handle up to ten injectors each), and no provisions for a cam sensor signal, so it would be difficult to make it into a sequential injection system.

The benefits of sequential injection are that:

you may get slightly better mileage and lower emissions at low engine speeds,
you can tune each cylinder's fuel amount independently (if you know how).

That was taken directly from MS site. If there have been updates, GREAT! I was not aware of them!

The MSII has always had that capability and has been out for a VERY long time. ^That is very old news, perhaps gotten from the MS1 site?

ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000 wrote:As for the politician remark, WTF mate? Did you not read all of my post? Currently the car runs great. As it sits, its making more power than 99% of the cars on this site! I would say he IS making SERIOUS power for an LD9, as only less than a handfull have came anywhere close. Most people consider 300whp big power, we are beyond that! For what he wants to do (IE: FUTURE/more boost/push the absolute limits of his engine), he is beyond the capabilities. Beyond that, this whole thread is pointless as it was made for Trifecta mail order tunes... I stated my feelings/opinions on the subject as you have also. I'm done having a pissing match about HPT vs MS, as there are plenty of other threads on it.

Until recently the J has had no real tuning support and nobody willing to run a full standalone. I'm not about to say he is making SERIOUS power, he is however making big power. Serious power would be for those that come even close to that of what others HAVE ALREADY RUN with obviously stand-alone's......quad4 salt flats racer comes to mind.


Also, don't post in here like I'm the one who started this, if you read my original post I corrected the OP in his lack of acknowledgment of other tuning solutions in his post. I then followed with a crack at HPT for it's pricing structure and just total lack. Your the one that got in here and started defending HPT like I kicked your puppy or something.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Monday, April 20, 2009 9:48 AM

"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous

Joshua Dearman wrote:
Also, don't post in here like I'm the one who started this, if you read my original post I corrected the OP in his lack of acknowledgment of other tuning solutions in his post. I then followed with a crack at HPT for it's pricing structure and just total lack. Your the one that got in here and started defending HPT like I kicked your puppy or something.

When the hell did I blame you for starting this? Never once have i pointed a finger at anybody. You posted the systems you have used. I replied saying that I myself have used them also, along with many more. How the hell is that a "I've done more than you have statement " ??? As stated before, I'm done with this pissing match. I personally don't care. As far as I'm concerned, most the people on this site that buy these products have no idea what they are doing with it anyway. Your opinion on the "credit" system with HTP is exactly that, YOUR OPINION! I stated the facts to the credit system. To me and others I know, its a very fair system. You have not "kicked my puppy" by any means. I defended the facts and stated what I know it can do. If you are trying to prove something or make me look bad, I could care less. Your not going to hurt my feeling by any means....





P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq

ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000 wrote:As far as I'm concerned, most the people on this site that buy these products have no idea what they are doing with it anyway.

Agreed

ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000 wrote:If you are trying to prove something or make me look bad, I could care less. Your not going to hurt my feeling by any means....

Not at all, I have no reason too. I'm sorry if I came across that way.

It's just that many, many people, have no clue what is ultimately available for tuning solutions and even at cost effective rates as well.(not saying you)
MS is one of those that are very dynamic, as such, components and capabilities change almost monthly if not weekly. Lots of people read the capabilities once and never look back while broadcasting it's short comings without actually knowing.

ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000 wrote:I replied saying that I myself have used them also, along with many more.

^What does this mean? How can you make this statement without knowing me or what I've done? I appologize for somehow making this personal but I don't know how you can say this with any reasonable fact?

I'm sorry to thread jack......but to add to list thread that I have sidetrack'd....mail-offs suck.


"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous

Joshua Dearman wrote:

ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000 wrote:I replied saying that I myself have used them also, along with many more.

^What does this mean? How can you make this statement without knowing me or what I've done? I appologize for somehow making this personal but I don't know how you can say this with any reasonable fact?

What I mean is exactly what I typed. I made the statement based off of what you has wrote....

Joshua Dearman wrote:
Also, your argument with MS is true, but your missing the fact that it can literally SPANK the factory functions...added value there. I too have used HPT, motec, MSD, MS, Spectra, and AEM...MS is by FAR the best option if your willing to learn how to use it to the fullest. It comes down to experience to like the MS.

Based on what you had wrote above, i was stating that I also have tuned those systems also. Then I added the fact that I have tuned other systems in addition to those. I never once implied that because of that I was more superior than you. Sorry if you took it that way, but its the internet.. Take it for what its worth....





P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq

ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000 wrote:

Joshua Dearman wrote:

ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000 wrote:I replied saying that I myself have used them also, along with many more.

^What does this mean? How can you make this statement without knowing me or what I've done? I appologize for somehow making this personal but I don't know how you can say this with any reasonable fact?

What I mean is exactly what I typed. I made the statement based off of what you has wrote....

Joshua Dearman wrote:
Also, your argument with MS is true, but your missing the fact that it can literally SPANK the factory functions...added value there. I too have used HPT, motec, MSD, MS, Spectra, and AEM...MS is by FAR the best option if your willing to learn how to use it to the fullest. It comes down to experience to like the MS.

Based on what you had wrote above, i was stating that I also have tuned those systems also. Then I added the fact that I have tuned other systems in addition to those. I never once implied that because of that I was more superior than you. Sorry if you took it that way, but its the internet.. Take it for what its worth....

Tuche....I'm sorry, I have used a handful of other such as earlier mentioned the Tec3. I thought I finished up there with the elusive "ect." notion. Most recently used the PE (Performance Electronics). Have you ever used them? I've made it work, but it seems to lack some in the 'intuitive' department to its user defined I/O settings.


"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous

Joshua Dearman wrote:
Tuche....I'm sorry, I have used a handful of other such as earlier mentioned the Tec3. I thought I finished up there with the elusive "ect." notion. Most recently used the PE (Performance Electronics). Have you ever used them? I've made it work, but it seems to lack some in the 'intuitive' department to its user defined I/O settings.

I have not personally used that one, although I was watching over someone's shoulder when they brought one in for a few dyno pulls. He said it had its faults, but was better than the Emange he had on it..



P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq