ok, i need to know.
i have a 2000 cavalier with a 2200sfi motor.
3speed auto. ...idk if u need to know that, lol.

but i have a long ram AEM intake on it,
and i have an 4" fart can on the stock piping.

my car runs like crap now. no engine lights on, no service light.

its getting 16 MPG in the city when im light on the pedal, like a grandma.
even worse when i romp on it.

the exhaust sounds weird too, like it comes out in puffs, not real smooth.

when i rev it, then let it go, the rpms dip way down sometimes
and it feels like it will almost stall out, but doesnt.

do i need a tune?

or if u know what it could be, plz let me know!!!
i cant seem to figure it out!!!!!!!!!!

Whens the last time you had a tune up?

sounds to me like you are running HELLA rich...

If those are all the mods you have on the car i REALLY doubt you need a tune...

If i had to take a shot in the darm based just on what you said here.... i would guess that the O2 sensor in you exhaust manifold is shot, or on its way out.... and is reading a false LEAN... which is making the car run rich.

When i was tuning my car, if i went too rich on the tune, it would act just like you described above.

If you know anyone with HP Tuners, have them plug your car in and take a look at your NB O2 readings and see if they look normal.

That would be my first check....

you could also disconnect the harness for the 02 sensor... and then the car would be forced to run in open loop.... If it runs better without the O2 sensor than it did with it... then that pretty much confirms my suspicions.

LarryMartin830 wrote:Whens the last time you had a tune up?

whut exactly u define as a tune up??

about a year ago, i put in NGK irridium spark plugs, and 8mm ACCEL wires.
i have also put on the AEM long ram, and exhaust around the same time.
i change my oil evrey 4 months, being i dont put alot of miles on the car.
just about 2 months ago, i sea foamed the whole engine. put some in the TB,
the line, and some in the gas tank. once a month i put a fuel octane booster,
and every 3 months i put in a fuel system cleaner into the gas. about 3 months
ago i put on a new serpantine belt. and the last oil change i put in some stuff in the
oil to fill in scratches, and get compression back for the cylinders. lastlt a month ago, my O2 sensor failed,
the one in the exhast mani, and i replaced it.

idk if thats a tune up, or just maintanenece.
but i hope thats whut u ment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ken soggs wrote:sounds to me like you are running HELLA rich...

If those are all the mods you have on the car i REALLY doubt you need a tune...

If i had to take a shot in the darm based just on what you said here.... i would guess that the O2 sensor in you exhaust manifold is shot, or on its way out.... and is reading a false LEAN... which is making the car run rich.

When i was tuning my car, if i went too rich on the tune, it would act just like you described above.

If you know anyone with HP Tuners, have them plug your car in and take a look at your NB O2 readings and see if they look normal.

That would be my first check....

you could also disconnect the harness for the 02 sensor... and then the car would be forced to run in open loop.... If it runs better without the O2 sensor than it did with it... then that pretty much confirms my suspicions.

i just replaced the one in the exhaust manifold, could it be the one in the cat???
...i still gotta replace that one!

the rear O2 only monitors the effectiveness of the cat. has nothing to do with fueling... So i doubt that is your problem... and i understnad that one is more $$$ anyway... so dont replace it if you dont need to.


Check your O2 sensor... if it is indeed newly replaced, it could have vibrated itself loose... if it isnt in tight enough fresh air could be seaping in and causing the sensor to read lean, and forcing the car to go rich...

Could also just be a bad new sensor... that happens too ya know.

If you would like, i have 2 cavalier engines sitting in my garage... we could yank an O2 off of one of those and pop it on yours and see if it helps any....

But check your wiring connections... tighten the O2 into the manifold, check your air filter (clogged air filters can cause a rich condition)

If i am not mistaken there is a guy that lives near you with HPT on his laptop and a pretty sweet Cavalier... you should hunt him down and see if he wont help you out.

ken soggs wrote:the rear O2 only monitors the effectiveness of the cat. has nothing to do with fueling... So i doubt that is your problem... and i understnad that one is more $$$ anyway... so dont replace it if you dont need to.
Check your O2 sensor... if it is indeed newly replaced, it could have vibrated itself loose... if it isnt in tight enough fresh air could be seaping in and causing the sensor to read lean, and forcing the car to go rich...
Could also just be a bad new sensor... that happens too ya know.
If you would like, i have 2 cavalier engines sitting in my garage... we could yank an O2 off of one of those and pop it on yours and see if it helps any....
But check your wiring connections... tighten the O2 into the manifold, check your air filter (clogged air filters can cause a rich condition)
If i am not mistaken there is a guy that lives near you with HPT on his laptop and a pretty sweet Cavalier... you should hunt him down and see if he wont help you out.

well, i would just forget the rear O2, but i bought the both of them together, caz they were on sale at the time.
so i just need to get around to putting the rear one in. and i mite try tightening it down.
but u r right, i have heard of some new O2s coming out of the box already bad!!!!

i can say, i dont think i have cleaned the filter yet, after being on for a year, its past due time.
but do u think that could really make that big a difference in gas milage???
its just a pain with the long ram, and ive been lazy! i dont wanna pull off the bumper!
but i will clean that too! hopefully its nothing serious!

i really doubted it needed a tune either, but ya never know, lol.
thats y i had to ask! lol
good info tho!

and hmm, i think yur right, i think there is a guy somewhere around me with HPT.
i just cant seem to remember his name, lololol

i'll give u a call sometime!!!

IBTL


___________________________________________________________________

Hahn Stage II - Mitsu TD06-20g |3" Turbo-back Exhaust | 61mm Bored TB |
HP Tuners | Innovate WB02 | Spec Stage 3 | Team Green LSD | TurboTech Upper | Full Addco Sways | Sportlines & Yellows |

BlackEco wrote:IBTL

The Idle Blinking Toggle Lamps!!! of course! why didnt i think of that. Yeah, change those and your golden!

whuts the Idle Blinking Toggle Lamps?????

can it be fixed? lol.

and with those mods,
is there a slight tune to be better than stock?

Great, a guy that doesn't know what he's doing is trying to help somebody that doesn't know what a tune up is.

Plus, why the heck do we get those post in the tuning forum?? Maintenance is not precise enough?



Gilles
2.3 Ho

Great and a guy that just signed up 2 weeks ago, and has no right chiming in, offering no help to anyone...
jumping in with his highschool mentality of "maybe if i start picking on people i will look cool and people will like me".

Yes, this probably does belong in the maintenance forum, but doesnt mean we cant help him.
Posts like yours dont help anyone, and just give the people who use the forum properly more garbage to sift through to find the info they are on here for.

Mfk-223 wrote:Great, a guy that doesn't know what he's doing is trying to help somebody...

Would you care to justify this? perhaps site some of your own qualifications.

ken soggs wrote:Great and a guy that just signed up 2 weeks ago, and has no right chiming in, offering no help to anyone...
jumping in with his highschool mentality of "maybe if i start picking on people i will look cool and people will like me".

Yes, this probably does belong in the maintenance forum, but doesnt mean we cant help him.
Posts like yours dont help anyone, and just give the people who use the forum properly more garbage to sift through to find the info they are on here for.

Mfk-223 wrote:Great, a guy that doesn't know what he's doing is trying to help somebody...

Would you care to justify this? perhaps site some of your own qualifications.

Hum, let's see.

Hum, a post I did in 2002
That's 6 years ago.


Your join date : Sunday, January 20, 2008

The first post you made here

Guess what, same date.

So next time you try to be a smart ass to me, think twice nooby.



Gilles
2.3 Ho

Um, i was not asking you to prove who is more of a "nooby". Cuz i honestly dont care.

I was asking you to qualify who you are to say I dont know what i am doing, and how you have any right to say such things.

But you know what... i dont care about that either. So unless you have something useful to offer to the forum, please keep your commentaries to yourself or the "off topic" section.

I dont see either of your posts being any more "tuning forum" appropriate than ChevyBoi89's....



Back to the subject....

chevyboi89 wrote:i can say, i dont think i have cleaned the filter yet, after being on for a year, its past due time.
but do u think that could really make that big a difference in gas milage???
its just a pain with the long ram, and ive been lazy! i dont wanna pull off the bumper!
but i will clean that too! hopefully its nothing serious!

If you have your aircleaner in your bumper, and drove the car all ohio-winter long, and havent cleaned it for a year, It would not suprize me at all if that filter wasnt so caked with salt and road grime that you could hang it on a tree and use it as a salt-lick for the neighborhood deer.

That alone could have started you down the "rich" road... and that could lead to fouled plugs that could worsen the situation... and then running excessively rich could have clogged or damaged your otherwise new O2 sensor to further complicate things.

Since you dont have HPT or a Wideband O2... I suggest you pull at least one of your sparkplugs and take a photo and post it up here or email it to me... or describe the engine-end to us.

An entirely dull black sooty plug means it is very rich. A silver and white "new looking" plug means you are too lean. A proper running car should have a milk-chocolate colored ceramic tip, a dull black (but not sooty) metal ring, and a side electrode that is black towards the bottom, but turns to a tan'ish color right where the electrode bends.

Im guessing your plugs will be nice and black, and will turn your finger black as well if you touch it...

If this is the case.... put the plugs back in... and disconnect your O2 sensor at the harness. Then drive it for a a lil while... If it suddenly feels like it drives better, it could very well be your O2 sensor... (disconnecting it forces the car into open loop, and will run off the preprogrammed tables. Which should make it run BETTER if it is a bad O2 sensor causing your issues.)
If it runs just as bad, or even worse with the O2 unplugged, then it is probably not the O2... and more than likely is a physical issue, like a clogged airfilter or possibly even another sensor (map, tps, etc)

You could also try to to disconnect your cold air intake... just run it with an open intake see if it runs any better.

If you can drive it for a a decent bit of time (maybe a day or so) you can pull the plugs again and see if there is any change in color.

Mfk-223, u need to chill man.

it in the tuning section, because im asking the "tuning/tuner ppl" here to see if i needed a tune.
it just got into talking about maintenance, because they said i dont need a tune.

wtf, yea, i mite not know whut a tune up is on a new car.
so whut???

on new cars, there is really no such thing as a tune up.
everything is supposed to last, just basic maintenance, like oil changes, and checking belts hoses, etc...

spark plugs are suposedly to last 200,000 miles or more.
other parts/things that need to be tuned like on a car from the 70's, dont need to as much as a new car.
my car only having 62,000 miles on it, doesnt need much of a "tune up"
...i should have had the tranny fluid changed, but thats about it.

and ken soggs has lots of great information, and knows alot.
where do u get that he is a "nooby"?

ChevyBoi89 wrote:Mfk-223, u need to chill man.

it in the tuning section, because im asking the "tuning/tuner ppl" here to see if i needed a tune.
it just got into talking about maintenance, because they said i dont need a tune.

wtf, yea, i mite not know whut a tune up is on a new car.
so whut???

on new cars, there is really no such thing as a tune up.
everything is supposed to last, just basic maintenance, like oil changes, and checking belts hoses, etc...

spark plugs are suposedly to last 200,000 miles or more.
other parts/things that need to be tuned like on a car from the 70's, dont need to as much as a new car.
my car only having 62,000 miles on it, doesnt need much of a "tune up"
...i should have had the tranny fluid changed, but thats about it.

and ken soggs has lots of great information, and knows alot.
where do u get that he is a "nooby"?

Seems you have a hard enough time forming sentences, your reading ability cannot be far from it.

Quote:

Engine management and tuning, stock and aftermarket systems can be discussed here. Information found here is mostly of very advanced nature and as such should not be approached lightly.

___________________________________________________________________

Hahn Stage II - Mitsu TD06-20g |3" Turbo-back Exhaust | 61mm Bored TB |
HP Tuners | Innovate WB02 | Spec Stage 3 | Team Green LSD | TurboTech Upper | Full Addco Sways | Sportlines & Yellows |

well sorry, that im a kid, and talk like im on AIM.
...that must really mean i suck at english.
and i cant read anything...

ok, so yur lil quote say engine management and tuning.
i had a question, i asked does my car need to be tuned?

this is the tuning section. no need to get yur panties in a bunch bro!

...all im doing is defending a cool guy that actually knows a fair amount
about his cavy. and a neighbor too me. he has given me lots of great advice.
because people like you and Mfk-223just criticize, and no one really appriceates it.

like ken said, Mfk-223's lil comment did not help me nor anyone
else that could be asking themselves the same question.

im not here to start problems, i just wanted an answer to my question....