I apologize, but hopefully this won't take long.
Feel free to call me a newb, because I am.
Car: 1997 Cav 2.2 OHV with 4-speed auto, 150,000 KM, with no drivetrain mods whatsoever.
Changes: I'm taking my HPTuners experience slowly. Things I've done:
1) Obviously back up the stock program to several physical locations (i.e. underground nuclear bunker)
2) Increase target idle speed: No problems, shouldn't affect current situation that I can see
3) Remove both engine and transmission torque management as per the directions in
Shifted's Guides on the
HP Tuner Forum.
Issue: With no other changes to engine or shifting parameters, the removal of torque management causes extremely hesitant and sluggish shifts. This is apparent at any speed or throttle position, however it is most obvious during a WOT 1-2 shift, which sticks against the rev limiter for over 2 seconds before finally dropping into the next gear. I've seen the other threads about WOT shifts, but the impression I got was that these symptoms aren't caused by these changes alone. That said, clearly many things are inter-related and I probably can't make such a simple generalization.
My working theory is that standard line pressure in the transmission isn't forceful enough to handle shifts without some torque reduction. Does this sound like the next place to look, or should I just re-enable torque management and chalk this up to a tired tranny that shouldn't be messed with?
I apologize if my question reveals a lack of research. I hope to rectify this with time. Thanks in advance.
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Im having the exact same issues man
I flashed my stock tune back on and just disabled what you did
Same problem
My Tranny isnt tired at all
This is a nagging problem for me also
Haha maybe
Im hoping someone has some good insight about this though
Its really frustrating
how about slowly take away the % Reduction till it shifts bad...than put a little back in till it shifts like normal....in the Retard vs. RPM vs. % Torque Reduction.
OR
adjust the shift pressure and shift time tables...do not touch FMC
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
honestly, as far as i know nobody has ironed out just EXACTLY what causes the cut at WOT for the limiter...
it COULD be the torque management stuff...
but, you can try what i did and max out the values in the traction control section. it has no adverse side effects, my car has been beat on for 4 weeks now and driven a lot with zero issues. shifted beautifully the second i maxed those values.
and believe it or not, for some odd reason the traction control still works just like it normally would, odd i know, but by maxing those values it worked.
to max the values just type all '9's in there and hit enter, HPT will automatically input the max value. easy as pie.
z yaaaa wrote: you can try what i did and max out the values in the traction control section. it has no adverse side effects, my car has been beat on for 4 weeks now and driven a lot with zero issues. shifted beautifully the second i maxed those values.
I hunted around for that section, by the name you referred to in with in your other tread. Is it the one I screen grabbed here?
If that's the case, then they appear to be pre-maxxed in my stock tune (or close to it -- the "enable" is maximum less one. Perhap there's a reason for that.)
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yep, thats it. but in mine there was like 3 or 4 more areas/values you could see/change.
idk, im sorry, i have a bad memory and no longer have the HPT i was barrowing
Should be 5 sections that can be adjusted there:
RPM min
Enable VSS
Disable VSS
Enable RPM
Disable RPM
On my friends car the only settings we have played with so far was RPM min. Set it to 5000RPM's and traction control does not kick in until then. We have not tried to set it higher, because no realy reason to.
FU Tuning
Apparently my calibration is unusual then. I only have the two fields shown, with the maxed out values as factory. Either this is a limitation of my calibration, or perhaps a sign that the coder at HPTuners didn't quite get everything pulled out in time for my update.
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Geeky wrote:Apparently my calibration is unusual then. I only have the two fields shown, with the maxed out values as factory. Either this is a limitation of my calibration, or perhaps a sign that the coder at HPTuners didn't quite get everything pulled out in time for my update.
I just looked at 2 97 4 speed auto tunes I have. First one was a 2.2 4 speed. It looked just as yours with the same settings. The other was a 97 Z24 2.4 4 speed. Same fields different settings.
I'm thinking that the 2.2 because of the lessor power levels has trac disabled. It appears that 97's are missing many fields.
FU Tuning
Ill have to look into what i have for these settings
John Higgins wrote:I'm thinking that the 2.2 because of the lessor power levels has trac disabled. It appears that 97's are missing many fields.
Seems like it. Something that puzzles me though is whether these settings are supposed to affect "normal" traction control function, since I know for a fact I have a working TCS when it comes to gravel and ice conditions.
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do you have yours set on 'advanced'?
john- so you just raised one table and it didnt hit a cut? but your TCS no longer worked...?? thats weird, like i said, all my values in that table are completely maxed and my TCS still works the same as it always did.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Friday, July 11, 2008 7:35 AM
z yaaaa wrote:do you have yours set on 'advanced'?
john- so you just raised one table and it didnt hit a cut? but your TCS no longer worked...?? thats weird, like i said, all my values in that table are completely maxed and my TCS still works the same as it always did.
Yes, but I never messed with some of the other settings in the tranny (like shift MPH, or shift RPM). The owner of the car and I did not see a reason to raise it soo high that it would never come on, because traction control could be handy on the street in wet roads. As for the track he runs drag radials, if he is spinning at 5000RPM's then that run is no good anyways. For that matter at lower RPM's than that.
From what I have read, it seems making tranny adjustments is just as shifted once said. You can't change just one section, but everything has to be adjusted to work together. Just as tuning the motor adjustments, driving, adjustments, driving is needed.
FU Tuning
Here is what mine is set at
Can you recommend any changes?
At the top of 2nd gear i hit a small peak and then it would shift hard into 3rd
Like to get that worked out
max em all, it wont hurt. then if it works, you know you have a solution to use if nothing else you find fixes the issue.
you can always tweak them down lower after you've got things to shift correctly.
just try it, you will freak out when your car actually doesnt hit a freaking cut and goes into the next gear without lifting.
Sweet man i shall do that and give it a whirl maybe tonight
Let you know what goes down
As an update, I'm happy (for the moment) with my current setup after doing the following:
- Re-enable torque management for both engine and transmisssion
- Halve all "desired shift speed" values (i.e. tranny attempts to shift twice as quickly)
- Increase all "non redline" partial throttle shift value speeds by 20 percent. (Revs stay a bit higher)
Since I'm not trying to win drag races, this gives me a more snappy-feeling transmission for every day driving without excessive abuse or shift harshness. Allowing torque management to function seems to keep the transmission happy during WOT shifts, though I realize this wouldn't be ideal for those trying to squeak out every ounce of speed. The faster shift rate doesn't sacrifice smoothness for everyday driving, but is noticeable in car response.
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