I've bitten the bullet and ordered up an HP Tuner rig (Standard), and I suspect I'm going to get told I'm a chump. Someone probably should have just come to me and confiscated $500 before I got a chance to waste it. Maybe there's some truth there.
Target car: 1997 Cavalier 2.2 OHV with 4-speed auto.
Drivetrain modifications on said car: None, unless boat-anchor wheels count. Hint: they don't.
Ok, so not so great a start. It's the oldest and least powerful car that HP Tuners is on speaking terms with. About the only upside is the 4-speed is electronic. So what the heck am I thinking? Here are my goals:
1)
Clear my friggin P1336 Code. Apparently HP Tuners can run the Crank / CASE / Relearn procedure. So can my GM dealership, but I suspect the fee for shop time would be a decent portion of the cost of my new toy.
2) I'd like to muck with the idle speed for two reasons. One, to help take the shudder out of my warm idle especially with the A/C. This became borderline ridiculous after installing an aluminum TTR lower engine mount. Two, to help out my possibly tired alternator, which hates to produce usable power at anything under 800 rpm.
3) I'm sure I can find some interesting things to try with the trans line pressure and torque management. Hell, even setting more aggressive shift points under partial throttle would be somewhat satisfying.
4) I'm well aware that my stocker isn't likely to see worthwhile gains from spark or fuel management on my stocker, but the possibility is there, once I'm reasonably confident I won't eff something up.
5) If I get bored, I can always sell the thing. It's not like my lone Cavy uses all the license credits.
I'm open to feedback on whether I'm delusional for taking this route. I'm sure I could have just let this old horse finish it's days with a stock tune, but that wouldn't have been nearly as much fun. Plus, I'm a sucker for computer stuff.
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Well if you learned what to do and got on a dyno I think you and others would be surprised of the power increase on a stock car.
FU Tuning
You seem like you have buyers remorse. Did you do any research on the HP Tuners? Its a popular program around here, and through the GM world. You made a good choice, even for the things you plan on doing. It is one of the cheaper ways to modify a stock ECU. Really, alot of people buy it just to mess around. Others, like me, bought it for the obvious performance reasons.
1. I dont think the case learn that you speak of is for that purpose. I remember somone saying its for the HP Tuner scanner? Im not sure, but im pretty sure its the not crank sensor variation learn procedure. I doubt that a dealership would charge much for such a simple procedure.
2. You can advance the timing at low idle speeds a degree or 2 to get a smoother idle. As for the alternator... it it cant make voltage under 800 its time for a new one.
3. You can pick up quite a bit of messing with the shift points and such. But you also risk your transmission. Maybe a little firmer shift pressure will be the safest route.
4. You can pick up a bit just off of advance. The stock tables are kinda on the safer spectrum for advance. You could gain a bit of power by increasing it throughout, just becareful of spark knock.
5. If your a performance enthusiest and like GM's, you can use this program on many GM vehicles. They are even expanding into newer Fords. Its well worth the scan tool and logger. Not to mention you can tune your buddies vehicles for extra cash. If you wanted JUST a scan tool, i would have suggested Auto Enginuity. It can do your variation learn, along with most of the tests the TECH 2 can do.
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you can access the case re-learn procedure through it. And congratulations of your new buy. I for one Love HPT.
If it wasn't for hpt, I would still be rockin DTC's and stuck with my 6500 rev limiter, also I wouldn't have my car running since im using my stock map sensor opposed to the gm 2bar.
yay for hpt
CheesyPackerFan wrote:You seem like you have buyers remorse. Did you do any research on the HP Tuners? Its a popular program around here, and through the GM world. You made a good choice, even for the things you plan on doing. It is one of the cheaper ways to modify a stock ECU. Really, alot of people buy it just to mess around. Others, like me, bought it for the obvious performance reasons.
I don't know if I would call it full-on remorse, but I have at least come to terms with the fact that it was an unnecessary, more than a little impulsive purchase. Certainly I've spent some time looking at what it can do, and certainly I bought it in part because the idea of tinkering amused me.
CheesyPackerFan wrote:1. I dont think the case learn that you speak of is for that purpose. I remember somone saying its for the HP Tuner scanner? Im not sure, but im pretty sure its the not crank sensor variation learn procedure. I doubt that a dealership would charge much for such a simple procedure.
You might be right that it wouldn't be super-costly, but I doubt I'd get away without an hour of shop time on the sheet, even for a 5-minute procedure. I'm convinced that the crankshaft variation relearn and "CASE learn" are the same thing, as per
this, and other discussions on the HPT forum. The only nagging question is whether it works for my car.
CheesyPackerFan wrote:2. You can advance the timing at low idle speeds a degree or 2 to get a smoother idle. As for the alternator... it it cant make voltage under 800 its time for a new one.
Yeah, I've been looking into some different high-output alternators. That will likely be a soonish thing, or at the very least a new stock unit. It's getting pathetic to have my volt gauge bounce around whenever I pull up to a stop light. Good to know the timing might help idle smoothness, though I may leave more sensitive adjustments alone until my comfort level rises.
CheesyPackerFan wrote:3. You can pick up quite a bit of messing with the shift points and such. But you also risk your transmission. Maybe a little firmer shift pressure will be the safest route.
Sounds fun. I tried out an Autotrans Interceptor last year, but couldn't get it dialed in the way I wanted. I think all the settings HTP has should keep me busy.
CheesyPackerFan wrote:4. You can pick up a bit just off of advance. The stock tables are kinda on the safer spectrum for advance. You could gain a bit of power by increasing it throughout, just becareful of spark knock.
Sounds promising. Again, probably not until experience increases.
CheesyPackerFan wrote:5. If your a performance enthusiest and like GM's, you can use this program on many GM vehicles. They are even expanding into newer Fords. Its well worth the scan tool and logger. Not to mention you can tune your buddies vehicles for extra cash. If you wanted JUST a scan tool, i would have suggested Auto Enginuity. It can do your variation learn, along with most of the tests the TECH 2 can do.
If I wanted JUST a scan tool, I could stick with the $40 ELM327 unit I already got from Honk Kong on eBay. No doubt a lot of the additional tests of the Auto Enginuity unit would be useful, not to mention the ability to run the relearn procedure, but basically -- IF I was going to have to pay hundreds of dollars for a scan tool to run that procedure, I figured it might was well let me tune stuff too.
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Good thinking. Im sure you will learn alot. I tunned my turbo on my cavalier with HPTuners. Its a powerful tool. You could swing by a 3rd party auto shop that owns a Snap-On or OTC Genisis and have them do the relearn procedure.
Why do you want to do the relearn procedure? Usually you do that if you replace the crank sensor.
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CheesyPackerFan wrote:Why do you want to do the relearn procedure? Usually you do that if you replace the crank sensor.
I linked to my original problem in my first post. I was working on my stereo with the battery positive terminal pulled for safety, and when I hooked everything back up, I was suddenly getting a P1336 trouble code -- "crankshaft position system variation not learned". I'm not sure why, but I do know the relearn procedure is the only way to get rid of the idiot light.
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Where in Ontario are you?
I can always grab a Tech2 overnight from work, and do the relearn for you.
---Joey---
Joey James wrote:Where in Ontario are you?
I can always grab a Tech2 overnight from work, and do the relearn for you.
HPT will do the relearn..
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
HPT will do the relearn, and you should be happy with the results of getting your trans to shift how you want it to.
It is good you arent expecting huge gains from this on a basically stock motor, but you should feel a good bit of difference, especially when you get the trans working to your liking.
It is a very powerful tool, and fun yet nerve-wrecking to use the first time especially.
good luck, and have fun with it
getting the transmission dialed in on my car was the best part about getting it tuned with HPT. the 4 speed in my car no longer granny shifts and i dont have to put my foot to the floor to get it to down shift. honestly, good buy and you wont regret it unless you blow something up lol. do your research and data logging.
1997 Cavalier Z24 - 15.647 @ 88.02 MPH
whitegoose wrote:good buy and you wont regret it unless you blow something up lol. do your research and data logging.
Geeky wrote:I've bitten the bullet and ordered up an HP Tuner rig (Standard), and I suspect I'm going to get told I'm a chump. Someone probably should have just come to me and confiscated $500 before I got a chance to waste it. Maybe there's some truth there.
No data logging for geeky....
Geeky, if I were you, I would budy up with someone who did something similar. I did, got a few great friends, and great advice all in one.
Yeah, I considered going pro, but I didn't think I'd have enough incentive to install extra sensors and go through the logging process. For sure, I'm probably going to have to try and find someone else who worked on a stock 2.2 OHV and exchange notes.
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Geeky wrote:Yeah, I considered going pro, but I didn't think I'd have enough incentive to install extra sensors and go through the logging process. For sure, I'm probably going to have to try and find someone else who worked on a stock 2.2 OHV and exchange notes.
You can still do plenty of logging, you just can't log a wideband or other external sensor.
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
Thanks for the clarification, I knew I had read about logging wideband somewhere. Certainly a must if I was going to be tuning for boost or NOS, but I doubt I'm going to be trying anything that will leave my engine over-lean.
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You can log wideband, or any other sensor for that fact that uses a 5v ref. You just 'replace' a differnt sensor with yours. Either the EGR position if you dont have egr or the AC pressure sensor. Check out this link to HPTuners Forums.
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18320
Im going to be trying this soon. I have heard it works great for logging widebands withou Pro.
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I should have clarified also....you cant do any blind logging....you will have to have it connected to the laptop in order to log.
John Benham wrote:I should have clarified also....you cant do any blind logging....you will have to have it connected to the laptop in order to log.
thats the only way i ever log. buddy sits in the passenger seat with the digital dashboard up.
1997 Cavalier Z24 - 15.647 @ 88.02 MPH
Well, I feel special. I got everything in the mail yesterday, and tried this sucker out.
Good news: The scanner portion works brilliantly, and I was able to run a CASE Relearn (and thus sort my crank position trouble code) on the first try.
Bad news: I've been unable to license my car. I can do a VCM read and produce a file, but I've immediately informed by error message "File Not Supported. Definition Files Failed to Load. You will be unable to edit this file."
Good news: I sent the particulars and data to support, and got a response inside of an hour: "Thanks Josh, its a calibration we haven't seen yet. I'll have our engineer map it and send you an update as soon as its ready."
Hooray for being the first to hook HPT to such a crappy car.
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theres not one damn thing wrong with wanting to help your car out, no matter what engine it's got.
i for one think its awesome you would want to tune your car.
Riddle me this... riddle me that...
geeky did you get an update yet? i just got my hpt and its doing the same thing and i sent them my file too. still havnt heard anything thought........
SO_hardcore wrote:geeky did you get an update yet? i just got my hpt and its doing the same thing and i sent them my file too. still havnt heard anything thought........
Nothing yet. I was going to give them until early next week before prodding for a status update, giving a relatively patient 2-weeks of time before bugging them. It kind of sucks though -- I wasn't really given any time frame. I was kind of thinking a matter of days from the way the reply was worded, which obviously wasn't the case.
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yea i got an email yesterday say it will be at least a week and a half......
That seems to jive with the info I just got. I was told I was "next in the queue", and that I could be in an update later this week.
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Well, so much for that happening. I have to admit, it's understandable that the big engines would get all the love, but I'm a little miffed at sitting on this expensive paper weight for a month and getting nowhere.
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