Why people have problems with HPT - Tuning Forum

Forum Post / Reply
You must log in before you can post or reply to messages.
Why people have problems with HPT
Thursday, January 10, 2008 6:53 AM
Alright, I've gotten a TON of emails, PM's, and I've seen a couple posts. So no, Rawkfist, this post wasn't inspired (just) by your post...

I want to give people an insight into why they have problems with HP Tuners, and hopefully they can use that information to better diagnose, fix, and get support.

The MAJOR problems that people have:

1. Calibration Not Supported
So, you went to HPT's site, you saw that your particular engine/make/model was supported, got excited and dropped $500-$650 on this great tuning device. You wait the week or two for it to come in the mail, excitedly run out to your car to plug it in, you download your calibration and you're ready to start tuning. After it gets done downloading and you save the file, a box comes up and says "Calibration not supported - please email tech support" or something to that effect. @!#$!!! Profanities coming out of your mouth would make Tommy Lee blush.

So why wasn't your calibration supported when it CLEARLY said on the site that it was?
Well, during the on-going life cycle of a vehicle, the manufacturer is CONSTANTLY tweaking the ECU operating code. Each time the code is tweaked and moved into production, it gets a new Calibration ID (also called CALID). This calibration ID is what HPT needs to recognize in order to know the position, size, and capabilities of your particular ECU, because tweaking one or two lines of code in the routines may push one or many of the tables down the memory map. When HPT reads the file from your car, all it gets back is a binary file that is unintelligible unless you know where each set of information is, and how its laid out.

Ok, so now you emailed tech support, why does it take so long to get a response?
Because they want to get it ready before they send it to you first of all. They need to add the calibration information to the current "in-development" beta and release it for production. The beta may include other features that are half-tested or "just-coded" and they need to make sure that those particular features or fixes do not blow up the new beta when its released. Your CALID probably isn't the only thing being rolled into the stable beta, so be a little patient, it takes time to get a program out that works.

2. Every time I change something, it gets worse
Frankly, its because you don't know what the @!#$ you are doing. 9 times out of 10 this is because you tweaked something hoping to get performance out of it, it didn't work or it worked a little, you tweak it more or you tweak something completely different, those tweaks don't play well together so you end up tweaking other @!#$ until you've screwed up the thing so bad that anything you do just makes it worse. 90% of the people on this site don't have the skills necessary to tune their own vehicle. Now, HPT is a simple to use program, but it has powerful repercussions if you don't know how all these things interact. If you are new to tuning, and you want to tune your own car, you're going to have to live with the fact that you ARE going to screw things up. HPT has a learning curve and newbies need to understand that when something doesn't work, then you GO BACK TO STOCK and try again. Keep a new copy of the file EACH time you make a change. That way you can know what works, and what doesn't work, and always go back to the last thing that did work. Also, pick up some books on engine theory and EFI systems, you need to know the concepts of how things interact before you can make a good decision on changing how they do.

3. It doesn't work and tech support isn't helping much
I'm willing to bet there's over 75,000 lines of code at least in this program. When you email Tech Support and say "its not working", thats like calling up the author of a novel and just saying "you spelled a word wrong". The more information you can provide, the faster and more accurate response you are going to get. For example, lets say you are having problems downloading your ECU... First, check your car... if you are having electrical problems in your car, HPT isn't going to be able to help you with that, and its NOT HPT's fault. After you've gone through all your fuses and you've verified that a code scanner works (just go to Autozone and have them scan your car), then you may have a problem for HPT. First you note your HPT version number. With the scanner connected to your car you hit the "Info" button on the about screen. You save that text and include it in the email. Now you email tech support, give them the version information, that saved text, and a CLEAR description of your problem. Include what kind of computer you are using, what operating system, (XP, Vista, 2000, 98, etc), and the steps you took to make sure it was a problem with HPT and not with the electrical system in the car. If the HPT Scanner works, let them know that. Tell them if the "high speed mode" is turned on or off. Just remember, give them MORE information than you think they'll need to fix it.

4. I spent $XXX on this program and they won't even support 2 bar!
Unfortunately thats not HPT's fault, thats GM's. You have to understand first, that our ECU's have all the processing power of a TI-92 calculator, if that. The code required to add 2 bar support may be more memory or processing power than the ECU has to begin with. The ECU was designed to do one job, and you're complaining that HPT can't make it do something it wasn't designed for. I saw one complaint correctly blaming GM, but for some reason stating that they "didn't have the foresight to put the ability to have these features in the ECU". I almost @!#$ my pants, you're blaming GM for not putting the ability for you to run boost or nitrous oxide on an economy car that was meant to be an entry level grocery getter for lower middle class young adults? Why not blame the founding fathers of the US for not setting up a savings account for national debt?

But then you say "well the 2000 has the ability to run a 2 bar, why can't we just put that code on the 99-, Eco's, and 2.2's"? Its not really that simple. There's additional code in the 2000 ECU's that deals more with other things not related to those ECU's. You can't just cut out those pieces of code and hope it works, then make calibrations and maps for every other available calibration on the market. Then the next question that comes to the more informed is "well HPT is making custom OS's for the V8's and V6's, why no love for the L4's"? Even if they could make us a custom OS, the amount of time and effort they would need to put into it versus adding features for the better selling V8's and V6's would be a VERY poor business move on their part. I'm willing to bet that just by adding the L4's to their line up that they barely broke even on cost versus sales.

5. It worked on my laptop, and now it doesn't
I've seen this happen about 3 times, even once personally. The problem here is not HPT, its your laptop. For some reason the FTDI drivers get corrupted and it will communicate with the cable, but not with the car. I personally verified this is the case by wiping my computer clean and trying again, and it worked. If this is the case, un-install all the FTDI / HPT drivers (both channels) and reinstall them. If that doesn't work, try the cable on another computer to verify the problem is not with the cable and is with the software. If it doesn't work on another computer, the cable may have to be sent in for repair, I've gone through this.

6. HPT doesn't support X feature that I see in this other car's calibration
Most likely, thats because the feature just isn't there in your ECU. If you think you're missing a table, or some constant, then email support and ask about it, but be sure to include your CALID and the version of software you are using.


The biggest thing I want to get across here is that 95% of the time when you have a problem with HPT, its not HPT, its the person using it or the car. Don't take it personally, but perhaps there's something you are overlooking. Its easy to climb into the car, not get a connection to the vehicle, immediately blame HPT, get all pissed off, start making forum posts, emails, and PM's about all the failures of HPT when all along it was a blown CIG or DLC fuse.






4cyltuner.com - Information Source For 4 Cylinder Tuners
Buy stuff from CarCustoms Ebay! Won't be disappointed!


Re: Why people have problems with HPT
Thursday, January 10, 2008 8:10 AM
Good info as always Shifted!

at least 50% of the posts in the tuning thread are about things mentioned in this thread. i experienced a "not supported myself" at first, i assumed that i wasnt going to be able to tune my car after all that money and time. i did a little bit of searching and found the answer that its merely that HPT probably hasn't seen my calibration yet or i was using an older version.

as for features not being supported, this is constantly changing. i find with my car, all the important tables are there to toy with, but some of the PIDs that would be beneficial to log (such as calc'd torque) are not available to me. me and shane noticed though, with updating to newer versions that some of these PIDs do become supported and can be logged.

best thing to do is to keep software updated (unless updating stops it from functioning, in which case do as shifted said and go back to the last setup that worked). also, the more that you contribute to the tuning world, the more it can grow. pitch in what ever info you can and upload your tunes to the repository.



1997 RedR - ZedR
Re: Why people have problems with HPT
Thursday, January 10, 2008 9:28 AM
Shifted You are the man. Great info as always.



FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!

Re: Why people have problems with HPT
Thursday, January 10, 2008 9:43 AM
Excellent and very true read as usual shifted.

I haven't had any problems with anything but the scanner personally...which WAS the cars fault (not that I posted a complaint thread about it).

I just have to applaud you, and the few others who are willing to share some of your tuning knowledge amounst us commoners. I am sick of reading threads about peoples BAD expieriences with HTP, and would like to see some more about why it is good and what works well on our cars.

I also agree with whitegoose, the more people contribute, the more it grows....but if you are only contributing negative, it is not helping at all....
Re: Why people have problems with HPT
Thursday, January 10, 2008 2:44 PM
ive had multiple people, friends and shops, yell at me, tell me hpt is crap, cant do this, cant do that. i get soo annoyed and i go off, i tell them its not hpt's fault its our pcm, the shop was like why cant u just do this and this, im like the pcm cant support it, it doesnt have the ability. same with a buddy i was helping tune his turbo 2.4 grand am, he couldnt understand that its not hpt's fault, i told him time and time again that it is in the pcm, the pcm doesnt have the capability to do this or that.

i ran into the calibration error, emailed hpt just like the window that popped up told me to do and i was on my way, havent had a prob since.



Re: Why people have problems with HPT
Thursday, January 10, 2008 3:07 PM
Well it sounds to be like the problem is EBKAC...we ran into this alot when i worked as in IT..

Error between the Keyboard and Chair




Good Job Shifted



Re: Why people have problems with HPT
Thursday, January 10, 2008 8:07 PM
Well said Ron.... I could not agree with you more!!!!



P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq

Re: Why people have problems with HPT
Thursday, January 10, 2008 9:42 PM
I'm glad i am reading all these posts before i make any moves to purchase this software. Thanks for the info!



Re: Why people have problems with HPT
Friday, January 11, 2008 6:48 PM
I say there needs to be on the market an aftermarket generic GM PCM, that can interface w/ HPTuners. With dropdown menus detailing what GM motor you are using, which wiring harness you are using, and what additional external input/outputs you are using. Then BLICKITY BLOW!

I'd pay an extra $1000 for that.


-Trailblazer SS - not so custom 6.0L - custom intake - custom tune
- (1) 2.4L on an engine stand (1) blown trans (2) good quad trans (1) eco trans = party

Re: Why people have problems with HPT
Monday, January 14, 2008 10:24 AM
Great post!

HPTuners is the best thing to happen to GM FWD in a long time, but it certainly has limitations compared to what other platforms are using to tune. For the cost, simplicity of install (none, have you ever tried soldiering in some of the piggyback's out there?), and capability, it has really opened up these platforms for all but the most elaborate setups. You can build a system that can be tuned easily with HPTuners, but you would have to plan it that way so that you are not trying to work beyond its capabilities, not many do.


15.3 @ 89.97mph - '01 SFGT
'98 Acura 1.6EL Sport 5M Y7/Y8 mini me
Forum Post / Reply
You must log in before you can post or reply to messages.

 

Start New Topic Advanced Search