I am comparing the two so i figured it would fall under the J Body vs catagorey.

First off i would like to say that i have owned two cavaliers and was a hardcore J body enthusiast. I bought a 2002 Z24 and began modding it. Well, at 33,000 miles my tranny went (the only motor modifications were intake and exhaust) under stock power. I had it replaced by GM and 1 week later it went again and this time i did not go above 3,500 rpm for that whole week. Had it replaced again, 1 month later it goes once more even though i never raced or drove it hard. GM replaces it with hesitation saying it was my fault. Well, shortly after that the ECU dies. I had it fixed and sold it. I understand i may have had a lemon and not all cavs are like that so i am not generalizing. Anyways, besides the mechanical failures the interior was horrible, The dash rattled and certain interior peices even came off.

So to get to the point, I have been working on hondas for 2 years and this made me realize how much better their cars are. They are built much better (ex. the doors dont fling back and hit you in the head when you open them, the gas cap does not sink in, the interior is nothing fancy but it holds up.) As far as Honda's motors, i shouldnt have to tell you they are reliable. But as far as building a motor for race use they are more sufficient for making hp and not blowing up. (i am not saying they are break proof also to avoid confusion i am not refering to the sohc motors.)

All i want to know is why do i constantly see people hating on them. Sure alot of idiots drive them but there are way more honda enthusiasts then j body so it should be expected. I dont dislike any car because of the company, if it is fast then i have respect for it. But i am just tired of seeing people post pics of some crappy honda and saying stupid things generalizing all honda enthusiasts to be F&F wannabes. I think its funny that you guys mention honda so much when the import community never mentions anything about the j bodies. I am not saying J Bodies are crap, they can look great and be fast. I just want to know why you hate on a proven reliable car, and proven strong motor for modification. (I am trying to keep from this turning into a flame war, remember that i like J Bodies, I just want to hear valid reasoning.)

Here is an example, the thread had nothing to do with Honda then someone posts this.

honda people are the most arrogant i have ever met, they just plain piss me off, they think their cars are all badass and everyone elses suck, even when they get beat, they just make up excuses
and oh yea btw
On your Honda SI they forgot the H and T

i think the thing is
1 you are comparing base models
2 the cobalts build is quite a bit better
3 the cavaliers interior you are comparing was implemented in 1995


my cavs body and engine was fine
only squeak i got was due to the motor mounts which went away when i installed the crank pulley

i think most of the hating is for the people not the car

and you dont hear it but most of us do

ooo you drive a cavalier blah blah blah

i know ive heard it

the j's can be just as reliabe, and be just as strong

i think hondas reliability has suffered in resent years from my friends

the 80 and early 90's hondas last a long time
but there are still alot of 80+early 90s cars from alot of car companies

^^^^ ...some are soo ingnorant...i had a young(er) guy (16/17) outside of a football game ask me what year my Honda Civic was i topd my tank off..closed the lid and drove off in dismay..

Sappy96 wrote:
i think hondas reliability has suffered in resent years listening to stories from my friends

we need an edit button

Honda makes EXCELLENT cars and trucks. I hate some honda drivers.........usually when you think of "rice" you think of a poorly done civic hatch. I think thats why people end up hating honda.


I need a sig

why all the jbody hate ? this is a pointless thread as everyone will always have an opinion...you only need to know that and live with it.



15.891 @ 88 mph stock, still getting @!#$ty launches...

EcotecSunfire wrote:Honda makes EXCELLENT cars and trucks. I hate some honda drivers.........usually when you think of "rice" you think of a poorly done civic hatch. I think thats why people end up hating honda.

i dont know about excellent trucks

if you want a truck thats a car sure

J Body hate? I used to drive a cavalier and most people liked the idea that i was building an original car. I got alot of props for it more so then hate.

As far as the Cobalt goes, i cannot say anything because i know nothing about it.

I understand everyone has an opinion, the reason i posted this was to see why their opinion was honda sucks.

there is a lot of jbody hate. whenever I go to car shows, and I tell people I have a sunfire, they don't believe that it can beat their imports, they all say it's just a sunfire... I think most people think the sunfire is a @!#$box. Well I tell myself that aside from the engine and trans, the rest of the car (suspension, tires, interior) sucks, but I changed the suspension and tires and I don't care about the interior, so I really think I have a great and fun car for less than the price of a new import



15.891 @ 88 mph stock, still getting @!#$ty launches...

there is a lot of jbody hate. whenever I go to car shows, and I tell people I have a sunfire, they don't believe that it can beat their imports, they all say it's just a sunfire... I think most people think the sunfire is a @!#$box. Well I tell myself that aside from the engine and trans, the rest of the car (suspension, tires, interior) sucks, but I changed the suspension and tires and I don't care about the interior, so I really think I have a great and fun car for less than the price of a new import

I can see what your saying, but from the looks of your sig it is just a sunfire. I garuntee that if you rolled up slammed with a FMIC smiling at them they would give you props.

2 the cobalts build is quite a bit better

How is this? What makes it better?

Brett Cykala wrote:2 the cobalts build is quite a bit better

How is this? What makes it better?

have you been in one?



j-body vs. ?????

nvm, ill assume not
the interior is much nicer
even for a stripped down rental car that i had
the plastics are nicer, closer gaps

just an all around better looking car

id say better than that altima i had to drive before



j-body vs. ?????

No, but i have driven an eco tec powered cavy, how is the cobalt better?

ok, so you were saying the cobalt was better than the j-bodies...I see, i thought it was aimed at hondas and i was curious.

well
i havent been in a brand new honda
but the 03 civic ex interior wasn't all that compared to the cav
both had cheap plastic
im sure i got better bang for the buck tho



j-body vs. ?????

Yeah, the interior is nothing special in the newer or older civics. It just seems to me that it holds up better.

hasnt held up better than any other car per say



j-body vs. ?????

I personally hate Hondas because of their lack of torque and arrogance of the owners. Every Honda owner I know thinks their Honda is the most bad ass '91 Civic Si Hatchback with an aluminum wing bigger than the rear bumper, a body kit designed for an Integra poorly put on with 3M tape or zip ties, an intake bigger than their 1.8 liter engine, "Steal-me-sticker" galore, exhaust tips bigger than their brakes, altezza taillights, "Type-R" badges on cars that really aren't, "V-Tec" stickers on cars that aren't, neon having, POS cars.

That being said, the only reason I really hate the cars themselves, is due to the lack of torque. Hondas torque numbers are lamer than a game of marco pollo with Hellen Keller, and yes, I did steal that from the season premier of Family Guy that showed last week.

They also seem to have a proplexity for putting car audio equipment from Wal-Mart and Best Buy in their cars, and being that I work at an independetly owned stereo shop as both a salesman and installer, this also makes me mad, but that's not just Honda owners, that's a lot of people, it's just more usual in Honda owners because they spent so much money on their stickers and wing that they can't afford decent stereo equipment.

That's my word, and if you don't like it, I couldn't really care less, but it's the way I feel about Hondas.

It seems like no one is that interested in the thread. I figured i would have been called out by now. The boards seem to have slowed down since i use to post here.

-reply to David Horton

Where do you live at? I see crap hondas but most the people i know and hang around drive very nice ones. Torque is important but the hp makes up for it along with the tall redline, you will pull of the line. But the Honda will catch and pass you. (not directed at you personally, just a for instance.)

a stock cobalt is better than a stock J because of a few things:

a. VERY nice interior.... individual gauges, and a very well put together dash and console.

b. more room - very comfy, roomy interior.

c. better handling - the stock suspension on a J body reminds me of tits: soft and squishy. a cobalt is much tighter... less body roll.

d. smoother acceleration, even in the manual: the drive by wire system does wonders. you cant do that nasty little first gear bucking thing by tapping on the gas.

only real downside... doesnt look as cool as my sunfire... plus, it has the 2.2 eco, but weighs alot more. very poor acceleration.

-david horton

By the way, your points are pretty biased. You will see just about every type of car riced out, not just civics. Car audio wise, its like you said, alot of people put @!#$ equipment in their car. Usually the riced out cars and bad audio equipment are owned by lower income people who buy the pep boys intake rather than an HKS Racing suction intake. Due to a $300 dollar difference.