GM Press Release
Munich/Stuttgart/Detroit - The BMW Group, DaimlerChrysler AG and General Motors Corporation today signed a "memorandum of understanding" governing the formation of an alliance of equals for the joint development of hybrid drive systems. The three global automakers are cooperating in order to pool their expertise for the accelerated and efficient development of hybrid drive systems.
Objective: Development of a two-mode hybrid drive system
The objective is to jointly develop a two-mode hybrid drive system that reduces fuel consumption while not compromising vehicle capability. While the base two-mode hybrid design will be common, each company will individually integrate the hybrid system into the design and manufacturing of vehicles in accordance with their brand specific requirements.
"The participation of the BMW Group has allowed us to gain another expert partner for the development of this advanced two-mode hybrid system," says Tom Stephens, Group Vice President at GM Powertrain. "This cooperation paves the way for extensive hybrid collaboration among the three companies. We also continue to discuss additional partners for this alliance."
"By pooling the development expertise of the three automakers -- BMW Group, DaimlerChrysler and General Motors -- we are making it possible for all companies to bring to market appealing vehicles with convincing performance, comfort and environmental features for the benefit of our customers," says Dr. Thomas Weber, DaimlerChrysler Board of Management member responsible for Research and Technology as well as for Development at the Mercedes Car Group.
"The creation of a shared technology platform for hybrid drives will allow us to more quickly integrate the best technologies on the market and will therefore exploit and strengthen the innovative potential of all participating companies," explains Prof. Burkhard Göschel, Board of Management member for Development and Procurement at BMW AG. "Because the technologies will be adapted to the individual vehicle models, the participating brands will retain their distinctive characters."
Joint development center
In Troy, Michigan, the new "GM, DaimlerChrysler and BMW Hybrid Development Center" will develop the overall modular system and the individual components: electric motors, high-performance electronics, wiring, safety systems, energy management, and hybrid system control units. In addition, the Hybrid Development Center will be responsible for system integration and project management.
A key factor in ensuring optimum development is the focus on a high bandwidth architecture system that can be adapted to the needs of the various vehicle concepts and brands. The extensive sharing of components and production facilities, and the collaborative relationship with suppliers, will enable the alliance partners to achieve significant economies of scale and associated cost advantages, which will also benefit customers, thanks to an outstanding cost-to-performance ratio.
The two-mode concept
Two-mode hybrid technology further enhances the performance, fuel efficiency and range of conventional hybrid drive vehicles. In city driving and in stop-and-go traffic, the vehicles can be powered either by two electric motors or by the combustion engine, or the two drive systems can be used simultaneously. Regardless of which type of operation is chosen, the drive system's fuel saving potential is exploited to maximum effect.
When traveling at high speeds, for example on rural roads and highways, the two-mode system switches to a different driving mode. The two-mode system provides a number of benefits even when driving at such constant speeds. Because the hybrid drive's full power is available when climbing steep inclines, passing other cars or hauling a trailer, fuel consumption can be reduced and performance increased even when operating in the second driving mode.
GM and DaimlerChrysler signed binding, definitive agreements on August 22, 2005. BMW Group today signed a "memorandum of understanding" with the intent to enter into a definitive agreement with GM and DaimlerChrysler later this year.
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-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----
Oooops
Tittle should say: "GM/BMW/
DC join forces"
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-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----
First there was Ford and GM working for a new tranny, then GM, BMW, and DC join to make a hybrid... Something smells fishy and it ain't your momma.
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As long as DC reliability problems don't slither on over to GM vehicles it sounds like a win win situation for all makers.
On a side note you might want to check out the latest Consumer Reports, Hybrid vehicles seem to not be making the EPA mileage with the prius only getting 35mpg's in the city.
i thought car and driver was up to something..
This reads to me like "We've ignored hybrid technology for so long that we need to work together to catch up."
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spikej wrote:As long as DC reliability problems don't slither on over to GM vehicles it sounds like a win win situation for all makers.
More like i hope
GM and DCX's reliability problems don't slither over to BMW. GM is just as much piles of junk as any chrysler.
And i totally agree with Brew-san.
"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net
As long as GM is not working jointly with any other company on fuel cell's i'm alright. I think fuel cells are the last thing that can truly save GM and they need it completely to themselves to get them out of the position they're in right now. Hopefully they can survive long enough to stay independently on it.
It's a fact that GM vehicles have some of the most reliable engines on the road. All you have to do is drive down the street to see that. How many 70-80's cutlass's, montecarlos, grand nationals, and other various old GMs do you see.... I know there are a ton around pittsburgh. Although you don't see too many K cars from chrylser, or old crown vics from the 80s. Cause they've blown up. It's a fact that typically GM vehicles will rust before the engine fails. MY family has owned GM vehicles for ever, and barely take care of them, and no problems. My dad had a 98 S10 with the 4.3 V6. He bought it with 80k miles, and sold it with 140k miles, changed the oil 3 times, and never even washed the damn thing., and every morning it started up like the day it was bought. My mother had a 97 Monte Carlo with the DOHC 3.4L V6, bought it with 40k miles, sold it with 100k, changed the oil about every 15-20k miles, and never had a problem with it. I just hope I have the same luck with my Cavalier, but to be safe, I change my oil ever 3000 miles.
^^^ Really? and the 2.4 LD9's....they were what?....the bomb? NOT. the worst engine design ever. Great power, power design. GM sucks.
"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net
You really think the 2.4 was the worst engine design ever? I still don't see too many of them blown up. I've heard of more problems with the SRT4 than with the Z24 Cavaliers. Besides, that motor was replaced by the ecotec, and go ahead, try to tell me that the ecotec motor sucks...
right, the worst ever...
cmon now
u must be retarded or something
^^^
cmon, it is just one guy from bmw
My mom owned a 325ci, and had loads of reliability problems, and now she's getting a 5 series... Apparently hasn't learned her lesson.
I'm still trying to tell her to go with either another Grand Prix, or a CTS.
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jkhd03cav wrote:You really think the 2.4 was the worst engine design ever? I still don't see too many of them blown up. I've heard of more problems with the SRT4 than with the Z24 Cavaliers. Besides, that motor was replaced by the ecotec, and go ahead, try to tell me that the ecotec motor sucks...
Yes the worst ever. I said it right. It was so bad in fact GM hurried the ecotec into it's cars to replace the LD9 as soon as possible to curb rising warranty claims and lemon lawsuits. not too many companies put in brand new "base" powerplants into aging platforms they plan to replace in 2 years anyway. It was a horrible design, any good mechanic will tell you. Poor heat dispersion, Ran too hot, burned too much oil, and so on. It had power.....but power doesn't make a motor good. Too many j owners could agree the infamous "rod knock" that signals your engine is blown is far too common. for every one JBO member that back the 2.4's reliability, there is 3 that don't.
The Ecotac however is a great motor. I have no complaints.
"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net
JAMMIT wrote:jkhd03cav wrote:You really think the 2.4 was the worst engine design ever? I still don't see too many of them blown up. I've heard of more problems with the SRT4 than with the Z24 Cavaliers. Besides, that motor was replaced by the ecotec, and go ahead, try to tell me that the ecotec motor sucks...
Yes the worst ever. I said it right. It was so bad in fact GM hurried the ecotec into it's cars to replace the LD9 as soon as possible to curb rising warranty claims and lemon lawsuits. not too many companies put in brand new "base" power plants into aging platforms they plan to replace in 2 years anyway. It was a horrible design, any good mechanic will tell you. Poor heat dispersion, Ran too hot, burned too much oil, and so on. It had power.....but power doesn't make a motor good. Too many j owners could agree the infamous "rod knock" that signals your engine is blown is far too common. . for every one JBO member that back the 2.4's reliability, there is 3 that don't.
The Ecotec however is a great motor. I have no complaints.
sure its common if you let the oil get too low and then take a corner too fast....but who's problem is that then. If you keep the oil line where it should be on the ld9 you'll be fine
96 cavi'/WI j's
i think the 2.4L is the weakest of the J motors, the OHV 2.2 run forever, although slow as hell
but the ecotec is well rounded, i enjoyed driving a cav with one
anyway on topic.....i hope these 3 can come up with something worth wild....i think it might turn out pretty good, gm's drivetrains are the best out of the 3, and BMW has the best tecnology out of the 3 so who knows, maybe they will come out on top of this whole hybrid stuff
Quote:
Yes the worst ever. I said it right. It was so bad in fact GM hurried the ecotec into it's cars to replace the LD9 as soon as possible to curb rising warranty claims and lemon lawsuits. not too many companies put in brand new "base" powerplants into aging platforms they plan to replace in 2 years anyway. It was a horrible design, any good mechanic will tell you. Poor heat dispersion, Ran too hot, burned too much oil, and so on. It had power.....but power doesn't make a motor good. Too many j owners could agree the infamous "rod knock" that signals your engine is blown is far too common. for every one JBO member that back the 2.4's reliability, there is 3 that don't.
the only problem with that is that there were Ecotec(L61) running in Saturn L200's in starting in 2000. that was one slow rush. lol
LS doesn't count. they hurried the Ecotec into EXSISTING LD9 paltforms even though all the platforms were all slated for redesign/replacement in 2 or so years. GM knew the motor was junk and wanted them off the market as soon as possible. The Saturn LS was the first car in NA to run the Ecotec. Once it was proven to be a good powerplant they decided to bump the crappy and costly LD9 from they're entire lineup.
"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net
well in the ld9 was a derivative of another engine, correct?
like the 2.3ho and all that?
which was from the late 80's early 90's, so it was time for a change
JAMMIT wrote:
Yes the worst ever. I said it right. It was so bad in fact GM hurried the ecotec into it's cars to replace the LD9 as soon as possible to curb rising warranty claims and lemon lawsuits. not too many companies put in brand new "base" powerplants into aging platforms they plan to replace in 2 years anyway. It was a horrible design, any good mechanic will tell you. Poor heat dispersion, Ran too hot, burned too much oil, and so on. It had power.....but power doesn't make a motor good. Too many j owners could agree the infamous "rod knock" that signals your engine is blown is far too common. for every one JBO member that back the 2.4's reliability, there is 3 that don't.
The Ecotac however is a great motor. I have no complaints.
Jammit,
The Ecotec engineering started in the mid 90's and saw life for the first time in June 1999 on the Saturn LS 100-200 and later on the Opel Vectra. Looking at this engine and its keypoints and you will see lots of LD9, Saturn 1.9L, and LN2 features in it.
The reason they replaced the motor was not because it was the "worst engine ever" but for cost saving (on GM's part) in I-4 platform sharing 1.8L-2.4L and more to have a clean sheet design for future prospects i.e..Direct injection, Turbo, S/C, Hybrid, diesel etc. With it, they wanted to achieve a refinment in noise, so it compares with Japanese counterparts.
The Ecotec not only replaced the LD9 but Europe in some cases Opel's "Ecotec" design as well, Saturn dropped the anvil reliable 1.9L too and not to forget 2.2L OHV LN2 aswell. So now GM focuses on one engine and not 4 of them. Good move on GM.
As for LD9 problems. Heat dispersion I will give you that, since the block is a strong Iron and not aluminum. The 3rd bearing problem is because of lack oil, when oil is insuficient the oil pump will not supply oil to the necesary areas and friction will occur and something will snap, in this case the 3rd bearing. So just top-off the oil and you will be set. Water pump failure might be another LD9 problem some say. But I always say unless you have a air cooled Porche 911, Vw Beatle, Citroen 2CV, eventually the water pump will fail. The problem in the LD9 is replacing the pump, which on the Ecotec uses the same chain driven design.
Ecotec has had extravagant launch once it was placed in the Alero, Grand-Am, Cavalier, Sunfire. GM placed it on the drag races with good funding and have proved very good. But in real world situations, it had some minor faults aswell. GM recognizes on the the cylinder liners being eaten up as there is a TSB for it. Earlier Ecotecs (2003 and under) have had timing chains snaped, there have been 2 documented engine fire recalls and lastly computers on the Ecotec has a had a few problems where it would stall.
All in all both engines had their share of problems, but the LD9 or any other GM I4 for that matter was not replaced because they were terrible engines but reasons mentioned above.
In the end, I trust DC & GM over BMW's German engineering.
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