If there's one thing that bugs me in old car ads it's seeing "VERY RARE" or "ONE OF 42" in big bold retarded letters.

Firstly, rarity doesn't equal desirability. I'll use myself as an example. A few years ago I sold my 1975 Mercury Meteor coupe. It had that crappy 351M engine and it had blown for the second time and I was tired of it. This car was essentially a 1975 Mercury Marquis but with a non-flip up headlight LTD front end (sort of). They only made them in Canada and mine was black on black. It was not unreasonable to say, taking into account the harshness of Canadian winters and Ford's propensity to rust, that this might have been the only one left in that color scheme.

Know what I sold it for? 500$ That's all it was worth in my opinion. I can get a 1973-78 Mercury Marquis coupe with a 460 (much better engine than mine) and fully equipped with leather interior (none of which my Meteor had) for 2000-3000$

Yeah it was rare, but nobody wants the damn things. Most guys struggle to give them away. Maybe when all the Caprices/Impalas/Grand Villes/Centurions/Delta 88s are all used up by the wagon wheel crowd they might go up in price. Though I doubt it, because there are still plenty of Chrysler New Yorkers/300s, Dodge Monacos and Plymouth Furys to go around. All of which come with sweet big blocks that are light years ahead of Ford's tepid engines.

This also comes into play with the 80's era musclecars, which everyone and their mother has kept in fairly good shape. Yes, a 1987 Buick GNX is rare, but out of the 547 they made, there remains what? 541? It's the same with a lot of cars like the Pace Car replicas and such. If everyone keeps it, then it stops being rare. In fact, being no rarer than when it was new.

Secondly, rare according to what criteria? Original production or current existance? Because a lot can happen to cars in 40 years. Technically speaking, a 1968 Plymouth Satellite Station Wagon is a LOT rarer than a 1968 Plymouth Roadrunner. Oh yeah, Plymouth made 20 times more wagons than they did Roadrunners, but how many of those wagons do you think are left today? Know anyone who kept one? Ever seen one at a car show? In fact, when's the last time you saw one for sale? (NOTE: You all probably have seen the occasional example, but my point is simply that now the Roadrunners outnumber the wagons 20 to 1.) However, despite the wagon being arguably rarer, what would you buy?

Thirdly, unless it's properly restored, rarity is meaningless. Oh, so it had the super rare AM/FM Stereophonic radio huh? All I see is a brand new radio with an MP3 player now. Oooo... it was painted Phantom Pink with a green Interior? But it's been repainted red with a black interior now. OH MY GOD! An original Mod Top Cuda! Oh... without the Mod Top. It's the same thing than if someone took a totally trashed 1971 Hemicuda and rebuilt a plain jane 6 banger Barracuda using the former's parts. Oh yeah, it'll look like a Hemicuda but it won't be one. So don't try and sell the thing for the same price as an original. Rarity means the desirable original parts on the original car. If I can build it myself, it no longuer qualifies as "rare".

Rarity is a measurable quality, agreed, but I think too many people toss that word around without thinking. It's like when you see RESTORED or ORIGINAL when the car boasts 17 inch wheels and a custom interior.

It's just one of those things that makes me grind my teeth into stubs when I see it. Anyone agree?

I agree. I made some cookies this morning.

MyZ24owns_my_Nissan wrote:I agree. I made some cookies this morning.

what kind ?


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1996blackHB wrote:

MyZ24owns_my_Nissan wrote:I agree. I made some cookies this morning.

what kind ?

Obviously rare cookies. I mean really, how many could possibly be made? And when there's one one left, that cookie is a collector's item. If he eats it, it would look like $#!* if you tried to restore it from original parts...


2010 Honda Fit LX

COOKIES!!!!!!!!!!!!! *snatches plate and devours them*

URP!

ahhhhhhhhh...

Dude, you got 10 times what you should have for that old POS. Be happy

I blame barett jackson for bringing the car collector game to the attention of the masses. It seems to me that they created thier own market.

My father's favorite saying.....

Bull@!#$ baffles brains.

The 90's era Thunderbird folks live in that same "rare" bubble.

I admit the Super Coupes are in fact getting harder to find, but the ones you do find are usually pretty friggin' rough looking. And i refuse to pay $5000 on a so called "rare" car that is beat to hell just because they are getting harder to find. When we're down to 500 left total then they may have a point but i still can find anywhere from 5 to 10 for sale locally on craigslist, ebay, or auto trader daily...so not so rare...yet.

I really laugh at the douchebags selling fox body mustangs for like $10,000 to $8000, or last generation f-bodies, for that matter. They are neither rare or remotely worth that much.



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Jookycola wrote:

I really laugh at the douchebags selling fox body mustangs for like $10,000 to $8000, or last generation f-bodies, for that matter. They are neither rare or remotely worth that much.

I'm not laughing! I've been looking for a project car for awhile now and it's an ultra rare 86 Camaro for 6K that has an engine that knocks(BUT it's matching #s!), or an 87 ragtop Mustang for 5K(1 of 500, complete with leaking top, and non shifting transmission).....

Pisses me off. It's become very difficult to find anything worth starting a build on because everything is either over priced or just a POS.

To that same effect, anything that remotely gets decent mpg is still high in my area. 88 Civic with bad interior, some rust, and 200K miles is selling for 2200 Firm.

IMO any non V8 Camaromustangfirebird from the 80's shouldn't cost more than 3000$ even if it does have a V8 now. I saw a Mustang convertible the other day that had been converted from a 4 banger to an 8 cylinder and the guy wanted 10 grand. It was a hellishly nice car but why pay that when I can get a genuine (but rough) GT Convertible with every option for 6 to 7 grand?

Insanity.

When the 4 banger is swapped with a 351 Windsor its a different story. And you want the hellishly nice swapped on because you dont wanna do work on it. You just wanna tool around town honking at the chickys and blaring your 1980s hair metal. You arent paying for the car in that situation. Youre paying for what the owner thinks his time working on it is worth.

I really hate the people who restore cars and leave them to sit in the garage. Like my father for example. Bought relatively nice 69 Z28 Camaro with the 302 and 4 speed. Its the car hes always wanted and he restored it. Back to all originality except the wheels. And guess what? The bitch sat in the garage. He was afraid to drive it. He put 4 years of his life into that car and he was too afraid of chipping the paint or hurting the motor etc to drive more than a few times per year. It drove me crazy.

I dont car how much a car is worth, it is meant to be driven.

TheSundownFire wrote:When the 4 banger is swapped with a 351 Windsor its a different story. And you want the hellishly nice swapped on because you dont wanna do work on it. You just wanna tool around town honking at the chickys and blaring your 1980s hair metal. You arent paying for the car in that situation. Youre paying for what the owner thinks his time working on it is worth.

I really hate the people who restore cars and leave them to sit in the garage. Like my father for example. Bought relatively nice 69 Z28 Camaro with the 302 and 4 speed. Its the car hes always wanted and he restored it. Back to all originality except the wheels. And guess what? The bitch sat in the garage. He was afraid to drive it. He put 4 years of his life into that car and he was too afraid of chipping the paint or hurting the motor etc to drive more than a few times per year. It drove me crazy.

I dont car how much a car is worth, it is meant to be driven.

Especially taking into consideration that a 1969 Z28 Camaro isn't all that rare. They made over 20,000 of the damn things. Not super common, but it isn't the holy grail either. In fact, back in the late 80's/early 90's guys would use 1969 Z28s to make replica COPO Camaros because they had most of the equipment save for the big block 427, and that wasn't hard to swap in.

Because the high end cars tend to have a higher survival rate than low end cars, there may be as many as half of the damn things on the road. That means that, even today, a 69 Camaro Z is more common than a 2008 Challenger SRT8. Hell, GM never made more than 20,000 Camaro Zs a year between 1993-2002, except in 1994 where they made 36,000. Every other year hovers between 10 and 17 thousand of them produced. So they're just as rare.

Know what I think is happening? Most of those cars are owned by old guys that are doing the exact same thing your dad is doing. They're hoarding the cars in their garages, never driving it, never touching it, so it merely appears that the things are rare. Once these baby boomers start retiring or dying in a few decades the market is gonna be flooded with the things. Not just Z's either, but Roadrunners and R/Ts and Chevrolet SS454s, ect... Then you'll see prices take a header.

already has in a way, i been watching some auctions lately and the car aint going for what they use to at all

I think your definition of rare and the working definition of rare as it applies to collectible cars are two birds of far different colors.

When you hear rare with a collectible car, it is rare because the factory made a limited amount of this car. IE an LS6 454 Chevelle with a 4 speed and a drop top. Somewhere along the line of color scheme and model options you will find that this car is 1 of 1000 just to throw it out there. The desirable options and limited production numbers = valuable rarity.

On the other hand, Ford made 100,000 4-door @!#$boxes of different names. Just because yours was special and survived longer than 90% of the other 4-door @!#$boxes does not drop it down to being 1 of 10,000 or less.

I swear sometimes you post just to see your name on the forum.

I'd like to get another VW bug, but Jesus Christ what people try to sell them for.

Knoxfire Esquire wrote:

TheSundownFire wrote:When the 4 banger is swapped with a 351 Windsor its a different story. And you want the hellishly nice swapped on because you dont wanna do work on it. You just wanna tool around town honking at the chickys and blaring your 1980s hair metal. You arent paying for the car in that situation. Youre paying for what the owner thinks his time working on it is worth.

I really hate the people who restore cars and leave them to sit in the garage. Like my father for example. Bought relatively nice 69 Z28 Camaro with the 302 and 4 speed. Its the car hes always wanted and he restored it. Back to all originality except the wheels. And guess what? The bitch sat in the garage. He was afraid to drive it. He put 4 years of his life into that car and he was too afraid of chipping the paint or hurting the motor etc to drive more than a few times per year. It drove me crazy.

I dont car how much a car is worth, it is meant to be driven.

Especially taking into consideration that a 1969 Z28 Camaro isn't all that rare. They made over 20,000 of the damn things. Not super common, but it isn't the holy grail either. In fact, back in the late 80's/early 90's guys would use 1969 Z28s to make replica COPO Camaros because they had most of the equipment save for the big block 427, and that wasn't hard to swap in.

Because the high end cars tend to have a higher survival rate than low end cars, there may be as many as half of the damn things on the road. That means that, even today, a 69 Camaro Z is more common than a 2008 Challenger SRT8. Hell, GM never made more than 20,000 Camaro Zs a year between 1993-2002, except in 1994 where they made 36,000. Every other year hovers between 10 and 17 thousand of them produced. So they're just as rare.

Know what I think is happening? Most of those cars are owned by old guys that are doing the exact same thing your dad is doing. They're hoarding the cars in their garages, never driving it, never touching it, so it merely appears that the things are rare. Once these baby boomers start retiring or dying in a few decades the market is gonna be flooded with the things. Not just Z's either, but Roadrunners and R/Ts and Chevrolet SS454s, ect... Then you'll see prices take a header.

The only thing that made it special was the color. It was called Burnish Brown. Its one of those colors that would look god awful on a new car but just looked slick as !@#$ on his car. In the 5 years he owned that car and the numerous shows we attended we only ever saw one car other that was VIN matching that color.

And I agree with you. I never see a Camaro on the street thats older than 4th gen. But based on the numbers i should see tons.

the whole one of whatever does apply to alot of highly desireable cars like the GNX for example, they are even individually numbered



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85

In my office we pedal a lot of rare antique car stuff. There are quite a few pieces that I doubt will ever sell, and we have an expression that "the only thing rarer than the item is the buyer for it". As an example, if anyone wants an original Duesenberg car owners manual, we have two. They run about $1000 a pop. I think everybody who actually has one of these cars already has the manual, but if they didn't, it would be pocket change next to the car they probably spent upwards of a million-plus restoring.

I think every rare item has an interested buyer -- even the rare garbage. You just might not be lucky enough to meet up with them.




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It all boils down to supply and demand.

Who doesn't want a 1st gen camaro, mustang, chevelle, corvette, e body mopar, etc...... The prices on those cars have exploded in the last decade. Something can be rare and still not worth anything if their is no market for it, so the 1 of 42 built with this color combo can be worth a lot or worth nothing depending on what it is.

I honestly think that barrett jackson has ruined the old car hobby for most of the regular joe's that are trying to get into their first old car now, because people watch these top end cars sell for outrageous money and they think their plain jane rusted out 69 6cyl camaro is now worth 30k.

Am I a hoarder? Hell yes especially with NOS stuff, and with cars that are good deals because I don't see the market on these cars dropping for a long time, if ever