Only problem is that they will be paying it back with interest.
It's also only going to be 15 billion now.
What about the money that was thrown at the banks with no strings attached??
KFLO wrote:It's also only going to be 15 billion now.
technically less then that. ford doesn't need any right now. they just want some on reserve incase the economy gets even worse.
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KFLO wrote:It's also only going to be 15 billion now.
That's only what's been allocated for now. They will be getting more when Obama gets settled in office.
I dont think they should get anything, make them rethink everything and stop paying their higher-ups ridiculous amounts of money. They have cars that compete evenly with foreign markets, they just need to rethink some other things.
03 Sunfire - Sold.
CorKey wrote:I dont think they should get anything, make them rethink everything and stop paying their higher-ups ridiculous amounts of money. They have cars that compete evenly with foreign markets, they just need to rethink some other things.
I didn't think Wall Street should have gotten anything either, but we all know how that turned out.
KevinP (Stabby McShankyou) wrote:
and I'm NOT a pedo. everyone knows i've got a wheelchair fetish.
mitdr774 wrote:What about the money that was thrown at the banks with no strings attached??
word.
it's funny to hear people bitch about a LOAN of money to the big 3 as opposed to a no strings attached "here ya go" to the banks with no payback, as well as no need for a plan as to how they are going to use the money and turn things around.
yeah i hate how people call this a bailout. its not. its a loan. BIG difference. they released the money to the banks so fast they couldnt regulate where it went or what was done with it or even the numbers on the bills. its just vanished. this LOAN is all going to be trailed and traced.
Well according this article, the Auto companies won't be getting anything thanks to the UAW.
Quote:
$14B auto bailout dies in Senate
By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS and KEN THOMAS, Associated Press
WASHINGTON – A $14 billion emergency bailout for U.S. automakers collapsed in the Senate Thursday night after the United Auto Workers refused to accede to Republican demands for swift wage cuts.
The collapse came after bipartisan talks on the auto rescue broke down over GOP demands that the United Auto Workers union agree to steep wage cuts by 2009 to bring their pay into line with Japanese carmakers.
Majority Leader Harry Reid said he hoped President George W. Bush would tap the $700 billion Wall Street bailout fund for emergency aid to the automakers. General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC have said they could be weeks from collapse. Ford Motor Co. says it does not need federal help now, but its survival is far from certain.
The White House said it was evaluating its options in light of the breakdown.
"It's disappointing that Congress failed to act tonight," a White House statement said. "We think the legislation we negotiated provided an opportunity to use funds already appropriated for automakers and presented the best chance to avoid a disorderly bankruptcy while ensuring taxpayer funds only go to firms whose stakeholders were prepared to make difficult decisions to become viable."
The Senate rejected the bailout 52-35 on a procedural vote — well short of the 60 required — after the talks fell apart.
The implosion followed an unprecedented marathon negotiations at the Capitol among labor, the auto industry and lawmakers who bargained into the night in efforts to salvage the auto bailout at a time of soaring job losses and widespread economic turmoil.
The group came close to agreement, but it stalled over the UAW's refusal to agree to wage cuts before their current contract expires in 2011. Republicans, in turn, balked at giving the automakers federal aid.
Reid called the bill's collapse "a loss for the country," adding: "I dread looking at Wall Street tomorrow. It's not going to be a pleasant sight."
"In the midst of already deep and troubling economic times, we are about to add to that by walking away," said Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., the Banking Committee chairman who led negotiations on the package.
Alan Reuther, the UAW's legislative director, declined comment to reporters as he left a meeting room during the negotiations. Messages were left with Reuther and UAW spokesman Roger Kerson.
The stunning disintegration was eerily reminiscent of the defeat of the $700 billion Wall Street bailout in the House, which sent the Dow tumbling and lawmakers back to the drawing board to draft a new agreement to rescue financial institutions and halt a broader economic meltdown. That measure ultimately passed and was signed by Bush.
It wasn't immediately clear, however, how the auto aid measure might be resurrected in a bailout-fatigued postelection Congress, with Bush's influence at a low ebb.
Congressional Republicans were already in open revolt against Bush over an auto bailout deal the White House negotiated with congressional Democrats, passed by the House passed on Wednesday.
The momentum flagged even amid evidence of deepening economic meltdown. The government reported last week that the economy had lost more than a half-million jobs in November, the most in any month for more than 30 years.
Good! I think they need to suffer for building @!#$ty cars and making terrible decisions UNLIKE foreign car makers that are staying afloat.
And on a side note... I don't think the banks should have gotten that huge bailout either.
You or your company makes mistakes tough @!#$ don't make the tax payers pay for it.
Mr. Kleindl wrote:Good! I think they need to suffer for building @!#$ty cars and making terrible decisions UNLIKE foreign car makers that are staying afloat.
And on a side note... I don't think the banks should have gotten that huge bailout either.
You or your company makes mistakes tough @!#$ don't make the tax payers pay for it.
I'll be goddamn glad I don't have a brand new GM car when they go bankrupt. It's going to be a blood bath if they go under. Far worse than anyone has said, far worse.
Jut because they file bankruptcy does not mean they will fold. They will have to restructure just like so many other companies have had to. Will also give them a chance to force the UAW to accept a fair wage for what they do. The import plants down south dont have the UAW and the employees are still being paid damn good money.
A popular refrain in Congress is about 2.4 million+ jobs will lost over 27 different states. The idea that jobs will be lost if automakers go bankrupt is rediculous. Yes there will be cuts, but the entire auto industry will not shut their doors for good. Reality check, they will file bankruptcy to reorganize. just like many other companies that are alive and well have done. Bankruptcy isn't death. Kmart didn't disappear when it went bankrupt. Neither did Fruit of the Loom, Texaco, Continental Airlines, Delta, or United.
They were reorganized into more efficient, sustainable businesses. Out of this creative destruction new jobs emerged. Reoganization will allow GM and the rest of the big 3 to "reorganize" and make the company better. There is a reason that over 61% of Americans object to a bail out of the big 3. UAW workers get paid above the American average and fully paid benefits. A bailout is Robin Hood in reverse. It's taking from everyone and giving money to people who already earn above average and more than they are worth. Would you be willing to let your taxpayer money help bailout the NFL and the players, or the screen actors guild?
UAW workers are over paid period. It's not "why shouldn't we get paid a fair wage"? (and obvious scripted answer from ALL union workers) It's not a fair pay, they make twice as much as the average American and for what...because they graduated high school? whoopty doo!
These companies and the workers are all greedy overpaid whiners. They ran these great companies into the ground with greed and now rather than face the reality of their circumstances they run to mommy and beg for help hoping to save their boated paychecks. i say it's time to show some tough love and not give them a bailout or loan or anything. it's time to reap what they have sowed. Bankruptcy reorganization, it's the only way to make them feel the pain of their irresponsability, greed, arrogance and mismanagment. And at the same time allow them to change and better themselves. Use common sense. Really I think the only car maker that will go under will be Chrysler, and they build the crappiest cars of all of them. i say good ridance to them.
"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net
"and obvious scripted answer from ALL union workers"
Not true. I know I get paid very well for what I do. Sometimes it is a little tough, but a lot of my problems are a carry over from the dealer days when I had weeks that I made far less than minimum wage. I also expect that in teh upcoming contract negotiation wage concessions will be made and I will be taking a pay cut.
Very true. UAW workers all use that same line to defend why they deserve to be grossly over paid.
I am a union worker, but i have the common sense to know we are way over paid. If the company is stupid enough to agree to it and can afford it I'm all for it. But if they faced going out of business and it would cost me my job...i'd gladly take a fair and ACCEPTABLE pay cut. Domestic non-union Toyota workers make enough to live on and are not complaining. So yes UAW workers can afford to live on $20 and hour, if they can't then go find another job where someone is dumb enough to pay a GED graduate $30 to $40 an hour for meanial...in the real world that does not exsist. The Big 3 UAW workers are about to get a huge dose of reality.
"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net
Totally agree with Jookycola. I think UAW just pulled a very stupid move, and now they're gonna be up @!#$ creek cause of it.
Quote:
Watching you parade around my bedroom in a thong was a little like watching sea lions mate.
being a gm employee and a uaw member i will say i am not over paid. i was a honda tech before gm! and as far as a GED getting u in good luck with the 6 month testing process that goes with it. hell when they we hiring here back in the day 7500 referral's were taken and only 825 passed the drug screen and the testing knocked it down to my group of 43 that got hired! our parents worked hard in piss poor working conditions got the pay increased the air cleaned jobs safer (yes i work with a guy called three finger bob) these people gave their whole lives and some lost their life to get where we are now! and for those who think that we don't work hard have you ever driven home with your elbows because you cant close your hand after installing door pads all day long? throwing up all knight after doing the gas fill job. anyway just stop spouting lies about the big 3 and the UAW please!
and toyota employees make more than us! coin for coin.
see ya!
banks fail = economy takes a dump
big 3 fail = detroits economy takes a dump (which it has been doing thanks to granholm & kwame)
either way, bankruptcy, loan, bailout, whatever you want to call it, regardless of what happens thousands more are going to be let go.
so why not go bankrupt and start over? its exactly what jooky said up above, it happens, companies still go on.
my opinion, i vote for bankruptcy
.
Two wrongs don't make a right. Unless you're Chuck Norris.
Then two wrongs make a roundhouse kick to the face.
novaracer wrote:being a gm employee and a uaw member i will say i am not over paid. i was a honda tech before gm! and as far as a GED getting u in good luck with the 6 month testing process that goes with it. hell when they we hiring here back in the day 7500 referral's were taken and only 825 passed the drug screen and the testing knocked it down to my group of 43 that got hired! our parents worked hard in piss poor working conditions got the pay increased the air cleaned jobs safer (yes i work with a guy called three finger bob) these people gave their whole lives and some lost their life to get where we are now! and for those who think that we don't work hard have you ever driven home with your elbows because you cant close your hand after installing door pads all day long? throwing up all knight after doing the gas fill job. anyway just stop spouting lies about the big 3 and the UAW please!
and toyota employees make more than us! coin for coin.
spin, spin, spin.
Thanks for the sob story. Yes you ARE 110% over paid, you build cars not save lives.
And show proof that non-union toyota workers are paid more than a UAW worker,
unless you meant that as a joke.
"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net
And UAW folks, stop trying spin it to make people feel sorry for you that you're overpaid as a means to justify why you should still be overpaid. I work hard too, went to college and suffered though stressful classes, worked full time and paid my own way. I save lives everyday as a Registered Nurse. I work 12 hour days 4 to 5 times a week. I'm union too and even WE STILL pay our own insurance.
I get paid well but i went to school and learned a trade and SAVE LIVES.
You graduated high school and put padding in a car seat, or sit and watch TV all day in a job bank. You're over paid, don't justify it to me or anyone else, all of us that work hard and struggle everyday with normal average pay don't feel sorry for you and your bloated paychecks.
it's like listening to George Clooney cry he's going broke on $20 million a movie. realize the average American rolls their eyes when a UAW nutswinger tries to make excuses why they deserve to be over paid..when you don't. Change and reality are coming home to roost at the Big 3. time to realize you all bit the hand that feeds you.
"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net
