well, this is out to the few old school V8 guys in here. im ditching the GTP... eventually. in the meantime, im starting to build a SBC that's going into... well, something. anyway, my goal is 400 whp. think i can hit it with this setup?
70-73 400 siamese 4 bolt block
stock forged crank
scat 5.7" i-beam rods (good to 750 horse, they say)
speed pro forged pistons with a 11.06:1 CR with 64cc heads
world 220 iron heads
weiand excelerator intake
some carb, thinkin in the 750 range?
found a comp cam with mid .540's lift i/e with somewhere around 230* duration i/e @ .050
not sure about headers yet, thinkin hedman shortys
and of course all of the other bells and whistles that penny and dime me to death
so, think it'll pull it off?
Andy
it's not how fast you go, it's how you get there that counts.
ZZP XP cam, 1.6 rockers, 105# springs, speedbuilt FWI, 3.3" modular pulley, TOG headers,
3" exhaust, flomatched injectors
'97 GTP 14.06@100.6mph pre cam w/ 3.5" pulley, I/E
shorty's = 100% worthless
youll most likely want 1 3/4" long tubes , that combo sounds about 450-500 range , and youll probably want a different intake if this is the part # your looking at - Weiand 7547-1(summits number)
the stealth air strike would be alot better on the low end where 400's like to work , that or go to a single plane intake like the team g
[quote=97cavie24ls(™)]shorty's = 100% worthless
the motor will be going into a third gen f-body. longtubes are a no go. trust me, i wish i could. they'll probably be mid lengths, but shorty's is just easier to say
Quote:
youll most likely want 1 3/4" long tubes , that combo sounds about 450-500 range , and youll probably want a different intake if this is the part # your looking at - Weiand 7547-1(summits number)
the stealth air strike would be alot better on the low end where 400's like to work , that or go to a single plane intake like the team g
well, the summit thingy said it works well between 2000 and 6500 rpm. im plannin on spinnin her just over 6K rpm, the cam makes power till around 6300. my thougths are, it should be easy to get torque out of a big engine like that at a lower rpm, im worried about being able to make power the whole height of the cam. but i'll take a looksie around and see what i can find
Andy
it's not how fast you go, it's how you get there that counts.
ZZP XP cam, 1.6 rockers, 105# springs, speedbuilt FWI, 3.3" modular pulley, TOG headers,
3" exhaust, flomatched injectors
'97 GTP 14.06@100.6mph pre cam w/ 3.5" pulley, I/E
carnivorous mouse wrote:Have you bought all this stuff already?
you can get a full aseembled long block with that much power
http://paceperformance.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=11555
http://paceperformance.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=57990 this motor with cam kit should do it
http://paceperformance.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=73032
http://paceperformance.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=18100
http://www.grannysspeedshop.com/ this mount with allow you to install a Ls1 where a SBC once was
there other companies that have mounts
In my opinion i think the Sbc is on borrowed time with all new motors out there
4.8 vortec 295hp
5.3 vortec 315
6.0 vortec 345 lots of low end power
Ls1 345
ls2 400
ls3 430(corvette)
keep in mind to keep costs down you can use Ebay for the long block
if you have your heart set on a motor that is SBC why not the Lt-1 it comes with 300 hp stock all you would have to do is use the carb manifold on it the engine mounts are the same to cut costs
also what are you putting it in? if its heavy cars either need steep gears or tame cams to be streetable
if its light weight and small its problay going to be cramped in there so your going to want to keep compresion on the lower side because over heating problems could happen. also another reason to go with lower compression would Pump gas isnt perfect bad gas, mislabled gas happens all the time it happen to me more then once
if you dont want to compromise on the block and you have your heart set standard Sbc then i recomend one of those performacne packages
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?SearchType=Engine&N=700+4294908216+4294840140+4294889107+4294925232+4294838998+115+4294858290
this should take out some of the guess work
may ask why your ditching the GTP?
is it not performing to your needs, well blowers can only do so much
so i figure you might like this
http://cartuning.ca/media.php#qtrvids
no, havent gotten anything yet. i do homework before i buy
key term here is wheel horsepower. i want 400+ to the wheels. most of those engines are under 400 at the crank, for the same price as i'll be building the 400 smallblock for. plus, i like big cubes. friend of mine went small cubes, high rpm motor, and it didnt do what he thought it would. so why fix it if it aint broke? time honored tradition of bigger is better
and of course, you can get assembled longblocks with good power, but i dont want to just buy a crate engine and stick it in there. it's not as fun.
you're right, the newer motors do make good power. but 300 horsepower isnt anything anymore. if im building a car, you'd better bet it's gonna beat a stock stang. and i dont consider 295 horse out of a 4.8L V8 good when my 6er made 240 stock.
as for the LT1... im not even gonna bother. sure, they make normal SBC power, but i've watched three guys in town have problems with them. and again, the SBC has always been a good engine, so why not?
it's going in a third gen camaro. not a light car, but not too heavy. it'll get a TKO 600 behind it, probably stick with 3.73's at the beginning, see if i can work with that so i can keep highway cruising rpm's down a bit. since 400's are a big engine and make good lower end, i shouldnt need to launch the thing at 6 grand just to get a good 60'.
i've looked at performance packages... i like the idea of a one off. more pleasing when it all goes together right.
there's a speedshop around 45 minutes from here. guy is notorious for great engine builds, and he'll be getting a call from me before i purchase anything so i can double check with him on the setup.
as for the GTP, i've had it for four years, and it's just time for something else. the GF and i already have a car. she's got a 323i. i need a truck of some type. but i cant not have a car! and it's about time i got a nice ol' rwd muscle car. i've gotta represent the lafayette motorstports group!
Andy
it's not how fast you go, it's how you get there that counts.
ZZP XP cam, 1.6 rockers, 105# springs, speedbuilt FWI, 3.3" modular pulley, TOG headers,
3" exhaust, flomatched injectors
'97 GTP 14.06@100.6mph pre cam w/ 3.5" pulley, I/E
Like the idea of a new Camaro being born. One thing I highly suggest if you ever plan on hitting the track with this car, or even a stop light to stop light against a stang, is a high stall rpm torque converter. That will give you the jump off the line against any @!#$ stang.
Another question, is this going to be carb or efi?
Carb = go with a Demon streetdemon with vacuum secondaries. They are a great carburator and i believe they have a 850cc but i dont know about a 750cc.
Stephen
hmmm. stall converter, huh? i like my 5 speed plan
and it will be carb. i dont need daily driver reliability. i need track friendly tuning and easy changes. i've not looked into a lot of carbs yet. i've been lookin at holly's they're pretty universal, and not as expensive as demons. i'll look into that one, though. thanks
Andy
it's not how fast you go, it's how you get there that counts.
ZZP XP cam, 1.6 rockers, 105# springs, speedbuilt FWI, 3.3" modular pulley, TOG headers,
3" exhaust, flomatched injectors
'97 GTP 14.06@100.6mph pre cam w/ 3.5" pulley, I/E
the other 2 intakes i mentioned will work better with the heads and cam that you choose the low profile intakes have never been that good , but you might have hood clearence issues to get a good size air filter on it , unless you go to a cowl style hood , which is a good idea any ways
going in a 3rd gen i think slp made 1 3/4" tube headers , any thing else is gonna choke some power from it
Headers for a 3rd Gen Camaro are pricey when looking for a quality set-up. I personally changed from a set of Hedman Shortys to Hooker Super Comp Long tubes w/ custom y-pipe and cut out and gained 2 tenths and 3mph in the quarter. Nothing else was touched on the car, not even the tune.
Long Tubes.........FTW !!!!
yeah, i know 3rd gen headers are restrictive. one of the drawbacks. but i want factory looks from outside, and i want to be able to drive the thing on the street. it'll be a street strip car, but more street than strip. i found a guy that did a true dual setup following the stock exhaust path. looks awesome, sounds great, and performs better than a single 3.5" (havent done the math for 4" yet, but i think it'll be just under). the car will have a cowel hood on it. for clearance and just because they look friggin cool on 3rd gens. i just saw the team g intake, it looks like a good choice. the stealths are usually dual plane, arent they? i dont remember. and im too lazy to look at my summit right now.
Andy
it's not how fast you go, it's how you get there that counts.
ZZP XP cam, 1.6 rockers, 105# springs, speedbuilt FWI, 3.3" modular pulley, TOG headers,
3" exhaust, flomatched injectors
'97 GTP 14.06@100.6mph pre cam w/ 3.5" pulley, I/E
the team g is a raised single plane , and the other was a raised dual plane and similar to the air gap intakes from edlebrock
Hahaha nice i didn't know if you had a manual or auto so I threw that out there lolz =D
And I wouldn't suggest going with a Holley carb as they have always had problems with there secondaries and dumping fuel. If you don't want to spend the money on a Demon at least go for an Edelbrock. I don't know I've just never had good luck with a Holley over all the years I've seen them on customer cars and when I've tried them on my own.
I say Edelbrock or Demon. =D
I would also suggest the
Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake for you.
It is a high rise dual plane but I know a guy that uses it and he loves it.
The cam you chose looks good to me.
You going electric fuel pump or a mechanical?
well, i found a cam that'd work a little better. ups lift to the .560-.580 range, and ups duration to around 250, brings up the hp quite a bit without kicking up the rpm's a whole lot. i'll have to check clearance and make sure it'll fit without hitting something, though.
i asked a friend of mine about edelbrock carbs, he said they're pretty hard to get dialed in and tuned. it's not that they're poorly made, they're just picky. i'll look around and see what i can get. i think im gonna up it to an 850 cfm, though. 400's a pretty good sized engine (though with a .030 overboar it ups it to about a 412) and at 6500 rpm, i'm gonna want to make sure it's getting enough air. kinda why i like the single plane high rise intakes. though a dual plane would make driving easier. but who's payin attention to that?
it'll be electric inline fuel pump. havent looked a whole lot into those. i might run spray on it eventually (maybe, depending upon exactly what block i get and how much power i make N/A) so i want a pump that'll keep up with a kit, and i'll just use a regulator to hold it down to the right psi.
Andy
it's not how fast you go, it's how you get there that counts.
ZZP XP cam, 1.6 rockers, 105# springs, speedbuilt FWI, 3.3" modular pulley, TOG headers,
3" exhaust, flomatched injectors
'97 GTP 14.06@100.6mph pre cam w/ 3.5" pulley, I/E
I wouldn't take any advice on building a muscle car from someone who doesn't know either a)how to read "tko 600" or b) doesn't know it's a 5-speed.... let alone someone who says "lolz" wtf is that stupid highschool girl text language bull@!#$?>!
ANYWAY, good luck on your build. I personally am looking into a numbers matching 403/auto 77 Trans Am, simply because I have loved the body style as long as I can remember, and I would LOVE to actually own and build a nice old carb'ed V8. No more working on my cousins Impala, or helping my dad... I want my own damn muscle car. So I know all about not wanting to do some sort of LS1 or other new/efi motor swap. Screw that, we need loud, fast, polluting, 4mpg monsters LOL
On the other hand....you have other fingers.
In my family we teach that boys have a God-stick and girls have a Shame Cave. -John Stewart
damn straight. i want something that'll guzzle down gas and eat your first child without even thinking about it.
by the way, if anyone's used it before, camquest from comp cams is a friggin awesome program. matched me up with the cam perfect for my setup (as long as there's no piston/valve interfearance) and even gives a rough hp estimate... though im guessing it'll actually be around 100 les than that at the crank. it quoted me at 550... which i would not be upset with
Andy
it's not how fast you go, it's how you get there that counts.
ZZP XP cam, 1.6 rockers, 105# springs, speedbuilt FWI, 3.3" modular pulley, TOG headers,
3" exhaust, flomatched injectors
'97 GTP 14.06@100.6mph pre cam w/ 3.5" pulley, I/E
400 + .030 should be 406 or 407 , a .030 396 is a 402 , and a .030 402 is 408
750cfm will still be large enough unless its passes the 500hp level , but should still work out pretty good , ive never had any issues with the 750holley double pumper on my 68 elco
and that cam will be better with the team g , and probably a carb spacer
i agree. after lookin at the team g and exCEL, i think the team g would be better.
i guess i calculated wrong on the CI, but the normal calculations for carb size said around a 750... but i've read in a couple different places you should get bigger just in case, because the average air consumption may be 750, but it might pulse to 850. a tech article on thirdgen.org said in most cases use the calculation plus 100 for the best carb size.
Andy
it's not how fast you go, it's how you get there that counts.
ZZP XP cam, 1.6 rockers, 105# springs, speedbuilt FWI, 3.3" modular pulley, TOG headers,
3" exhaust, flomatched injectors
'97 GTP 14.06@100.6mph pre cam w/ 3.5" pulley, I/E
