http://blogs.motortrend.com/6293345/government/could-the-epa-cripple-the-chevy-volt/index.html
Could the EPA cripple the Chevy Volt?
by Mike Connor
Word around Detroit is GM and the EPA are apparently duking it out over the Chevy Volt. The problem is this: Is the Volt an electric car, or a hybrid? How you define the Volt is important, because it dictates how the official EPA fuel economy numbers will be calculated.
Strictly speaking, the Volt is a hybrid in that it is an electric vehicle with an on-board internal combustion engine (likely a version of GM's 1.4L Family Zero four). The internal combustion engine, which is connected to a generator, acts as a range extender when the Volt's lithium-ion battery pack runs low on power.
The Volt's electric drive unit is designed to run 40 miles purely on the power from the battery pack. After that, then the internal combustion engine kicks in, generating enough electricity to power the electric drive for what GM says is hundreds of miles more.
Unlike a hybrid like the Prius, which uses its electric motor, gas engine or a combination of both to turn the wheels, the Volt's wheels are turned only by its electric drive unit.
Now, here's the rub: Reports suggest the Volt can make it through the EPA test cycle -- which from 2008 includes high speed running, air conditioning load, and cold start tests in addition to the city and highway cycles -- with the internal combustion engine running about 15 percent of the time.
The straightforward calculation gives the Volt an EPA fuel consumption rating somewhere north of 100mpg. But the EPA apparently wants to certify the Volt differently, insisting it finishes the test with the batteries close to full charge. That drops the calculated fuel consumption to just under 48mpg, because the internal combustion engine would have to be run essentially all the time to keep the batteries near full charge.
GM argues, with some justification, the EPA's methodology does not reflect the duty cycle for which the Volt was designed. Many consumers, insiders insist, may never have the internal combustion engine come on at all if their total daily commute is 40 miles or less, or if they recharge the car at their workplace.
The problem is if the Volt goes to market with an EPA rating that is not substantially better than can be achieved by hybrids, diesels, or other small cars, GM insiders worry consumers may not see the value in the car's near-$40,000 pricetag.
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-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----
@!#$ the EPA they need to stick it, nobody is going to run the motor all the time, most people will use the battery's only. 40 miles is a decent haul to work, and a lot of richer people who will most likely own one of these, are only 10-20 miles from work anyway.
the government trying to @!#$ us over yet again.
Okay...
Other hybrids use a gasoline engine to drive the car at least part of the time... and they get measures that way....
Yet, the Volt uses ONLY an electric drive... and they get calculated the same way... and the EPA wants to see a full charge? That's not realistic.
Maybe GM should "pretend" that the Volt is a Toyota. Then the EPA will bend over backward to help them out.
Maybe GM needs to realize a 40,000 pricetag is not a value.
"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net
if it's under $40k, by the time I pay it off, I will have saved that in Gas...40 miles is well over my Work round trip, and any of my side trips too.
Everything Louder than Everything else
Expecting the first/second gen car of this type to be competetive in the new car market is very much optimistic.
However, there needs to be an option in the market available for people that want to make change and are willing to pay for it.
With all the hooplaw behind a green planet, there should be no shortage of loud mouth green activist lining up to buy them. Even at a premium. If there isn't, shame on them!
I don't think there will ever be a standardized test that can fully measure a vehicles total impact on the planet. There is no question in my mind that the current tests are still inadequate to predict a vehicles economy in it's intended use.
With all the compromise so far, I appreciate that the electric drivetrain is one huge step forward. At least there will be a platform that shadetree enthusiast have to work with.
Make the 'back-up' gasoline engine an LS3 ...
Problem solved.
Jookycola wrote:Maybe GM needs to realize a 40,000 pricetag is not a value.
$40,000, and you have to fill up once every 3-4 months, and it costs about $12 a week to plug it in to recharge off your house current.
Figure you spend $35 a week on gas for your cav/cobalt whatever, 52 weeks a year, and the average vehicle is on the road for 9 years: $16380
Also, Assuming you no longer need to worry about oil changes (about $45*4 times a year * 9 years): $1620
Coolant flushes and Transmission flushes done at the dealer will top you out at about $600 if you follow the recommended time scheduling.
You have about $18,000 total there. So you're cutting the cost of just driving and basic maintenance (not including tires etc) with the volt in half.
Assume you don't get a tax incentive or about what... $3000 or whatever, you're still going to be WAY ahead paying for a $40,000 Volt because you'll never have to worry about paying you an increased fuel cost, and if you need to, you CAN use a solar cell to charge the battery, very slowly true, but also very free.
The other thing, you'll get better acceleration from a pure electric car: Less spin up time.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:Jookycola wrote:Maybe GM needs to realize a 40,000 pricetag is not a value.
$40,000, and you have to fill up once every 3-4 months, and it costs about $12 a week to plug it in to recharge off your house current.
Figure you spend $35 a week on gas for your cav/cobalt whatever, 52 weeks a year, and the average vehicle is on the road for 9 years: $16380
Also, Assuming you no longer need to worry about oil changes (about $45*4 times a year * 9 years): $1620
Coolant flushes and Transmission flushes done at the dealer will top you out at about $600 if you follow the recommended time scheduling.
You have about $18,000 total there. So you're cutting the cost of just driving and basic maintenance (not including tires etc) with the volt in half.
Assume you don't get a tax incentive or about what... $3000 or whatever, you're still going to be WAY ahead paying for a $40,000 Volt because you'll never have to worry about paying you an increased fuel cost, and if you need to, you CAN use a solar cell to charge the battery, very slowly true, but also very free.
The other thing, you'll get better acceleration from a pure electric car: Less spin up time.
Fuzzy math is the devil.
JinxedZ THE LOVED ONE wrote:Make the 'back-up' gasoline engine an LS3 ...
Problem solved.
Not only is it now worth the $40K price tag, but the car just sounds interesting.
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-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----
Fuzzy math is warm and cuddly.
But it's just the general outline. The Volt looks like rolling sex honestly.
screw all this new car epa BS , just buy a old mini , cvcc , or austin american , they will knock down 35mpg or better on a bad day , and dont ruin the environment with the crap needed to make them
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:Fuzzy math is warm and cuddly.
But it's just the general outline. The Volt looks like rolling sex honestly.
I agree! I want to do dirty things to that car...
Even the redone lines are awesome.
