BMW will decide by the end of the year if it will sell engines and other components to General Motors and other rival automakers, says Friedrich Eichiner, the carmaker's board member for corporate and brand development. When asked if BMW is talking to GM, Daimler and Fiat about supplying engines, Eichiner said: "We are talking with those companies you mentioned."
BMW will decide by the end of the year because "it does not make sense to go on talking and talking forever." Selling engines and other components to other automakers is part of BMW CEO Norbert Reithofer's Number One strategic plan to boost the carmaker's profitability.
In February, German media reports said BMW is looking for potential customers for engines and transmissions. Until now, the company had not confirmed that it is talking with GM, Daimler and Fiat.
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-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----
It's like the '90s QA all over again?
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2002 Sunfire -->
- Ractive steering wheel
- ASA 17" EM9 + Nexen N5000 215/45/17 (steelies for winter)
- D-Spec Lowering kit @ 1.4" (issues currently
)
- Rockford P250.1 + MTX MZS1004 + Panasonic CQ-C8313U head unit
- Barely legal tint.
go from good parts , to highly problematic parts at a higher cost
yay
GM used to sell BMW automatic transmissions.
The ONLY benefit is see is that diesel engines will reach cars faster IF BMW takes over that portion. Although, I'm not too intelligent on BMW engines
-dan
BMW drive-trains are known to be reliable. their electrical not so much but thats due to the amount they have plus being a german car that changes every like 2 years and not really standardized parts like other manufactures make their parts outrageously expensive. gm buys parts i hope it's their diesels if they can standardize bmw parts like everyday gm parts i don't see a down side. they just better stay away from the LSX series that american bread and butter right their.
wonder what the cobalt would be like with the 3.0 TT beamer engine.......
01cavZ24 wrote:wonder what the cobalt would be like with the 3.0 TT beamer engine.......
it would be a fast piece of @!#$, but a piece none-the-less
I can see this being feasible for GM when it comes to a diesel motor. BUT for gasoline engines....... Why ?
My Cav
I give up...
i'm buying a VW those people love trees, so they should love eachother too... "Andy"
The M3 engine failure was due to the 01 and 02 M's not having a low enough rev limiter setting and people over reving them and spitting rods, ANY car can/will do the same thing if you rev the crap out of it long enough. Try spinning your the engine past 8000 all the time and what do you think will happen?! LOL!
Beyond that before I bought my M I did some checking and BMW fixed the rod issue AND gave out 10 year 100,000 mile warrenties on the repaired engines! I know cause I have said warrenty in my owners manual from when the work was done. I don't think GM would EVER offer such a warrenty extension on ANY engine repairs.
BMW engines are AWESOME trust me! If GM and BMW did this you guys would love it. As for the parts from the ones I've checked on they are on par with GM parts pricing for say Corvette stuff.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Oooops. my bad. Its a 6 year warrenty on the repair not 10, sorry must have misread it.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Diesels? Really guys? You want a diesel derived from a BMW versus something derived from a duramax?
Is there a sub-forum somewhere were you guys get together smoke pot and do crystal meth?
The only thing GM could stand to gain from BMW would be how to put a decent suspension in there smaller cars.
Jackalope wrote:The M3 engine failure was due to the 01 and 02 M's not having a low enough rev limiter setting and people over reving them and spitting rods, ANY car can/will do the same thing if you rev the crap out of it long enough. Try spinning your the engine past 8000 all the time and what do you think will happen?! LOL!
Beyond that before I bought my M I did some checking and BMW fixed the rod issue AND gave out 10 year 100,000 mile warrenties on the repaired engines! I know cause I have said warrenty in my owners manual from when the work was done. I don't think GM would EVER offer such a warrenty extension on ANY engine repairs.
BMW engines are AWESOME trust me! If GM and BMW did this you guys would love it. As for the parts from the ones I've checked on they are on par with GM parts pricing for say Corvette stuff.
When they work, they are smooth engines. But the key word here is, when they work.
Emor8t wrote:Diesels? Really guys? You want a diesel derived from a BMW versus something derived from a duramax?
Is there a sub-forum somewhere were you guys get together smoke pot and do crystal meth?
The only thing GM could stand to gain from BMW would be how to put a decent suspension in there smaller cars.
Fact.
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-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----
Wow, you guys talk like GM is the GOD of all things cars. Simply put, GM makes cars built by accountants.
I used to work with a guy that had an 04 M3. its not that great of a car. In general BMW isnt even that great. I laughed when I saw a chart that listed the average number of warranty claims per vehicle and BMW had 2 more than Chevrolet. I would be willing to bet Chevy sells more cars than BMW and for a hell of a lot less money.
I don't have any experience at all working with or on BMWs, and can't personally attest to how stout and well built their engines are, but you people are fooling yourselves if you think GM couldn't learn from the Germans in this regard. Let's talk about specific output. The magic number is 100hp per liter of displacement. GMs most powerful engine, the upcoming LS9 in the ZR1 - 6.2L, FORCE FED, and expecting 620hp or so. Right about 100hp/L. Sure the turbo Eco cranking out 260hp from 2.0 is impressive, but that's a rarity, and again it's force fed. New M3 - 420-ish HP from 4.0, no forced induction. M5/M6 - 507hp from 5.0L. Over 100hp/L, not force fed. Examples of things they've created/use: Individual throttle butterflies for each cylinder, infinitely variable valve timing on both intake and exhaust, and then there's the fact they have some engines that don't even HAVE a throttle plate, rather they manipulate the valves to vary engine speed. That's some pretty crazy @!#$, folks. As I don't feel like doing any searching right now, I've read in the past about some of their diesel engine technology, and can attest they put out some monstrous torque figures from smaller displacements, not all too unlike what Mercedes is making with their Bluetec engines.
I love GM, hell I work for them, and I'll forever be a big fan of their V8s either in SB or BB form, but c'mon let's give our colective heads a shake. The Werks guys can make some incredible engines, and just like any other manufacturer, @!#$ DOES break even when you don't mistreat it.
There's a real good reason why a BMW is considered the benchmark for many things, especially "feel", and how so many other manufacturers take aim at them. How many times have you seen the G35 described as a 3-series fighter, or the CTS compared against the 5?
14.330 @ 96.37mph
I prefer my engines simple and not full of useless technology. Ever look at the torque numbers for those BMW engines??? Compare those to a GM engine. Also the M5 engine only makes 400ish HP until you select the performance setting. That alone would suggest to me that the engine can not handle the higher power output all the time. I dont even like where GMs engines have gone now. Give me a damn cable connecting my accelerator pedal to my throttle, not a bunch of wires and a computer that interpurts what my foot is doing and then does whatever it deems correct. Saab (owned by GM) has a 1.9L diesel that produces 175 HP and 280 TQ so teh Germans arnt the only ones that can make torque from a small diesel. It has been my observation that most European cars are overly complicated and have unneeded "technological" advances in them just so they can say they have it and the magazines can go on about how great it is. Its just more junk to go wrong. The body shop at the dealer I used to work at had a Merc. in for body work. It would refuse to start every now and then. The owners of the car said that the car would always do that. the wife had been left "stranded" for several hours on several occasions because of this issue. The dealer had the car towed to a Merc. dealer down the street and one of the 97 modules in the car had craped out. Why is there a need for 97 modules in the car????? Its useless technology, that is all.
Yes I know that is a long paragraph.
BlownBlackZ wrote:I don't have any experience at all working with or on BMWs, and can't personally attest to how stout and well built their engines are, but you people are fooling yourselves if you think GM couldn't learn from the Germans in this regard. Let's talk about specific output. The magic number is 100hp per liter of displacement. GMs most powerful engine, the upcoming LS9 in the ZR1 - 6.2L, FORCE FED, and expecting 620hp or so. Right about 100hp/L. Sure the turbo Eco cranking out 260hp from 2.0 is impressive, but that's a rarity, and again it's force fed. New M3 - 420-ish HP from 4.0, no forced induction. M5/M6 - 507hp from 5.0L. Over 100hp/L, not force fed. Examples of things they've created/use: Individual throttle butterflies for each cylinder, infinitely variable valve timing on both intake and exhaust, and then there's the fact they have some engines that don't even HAVE a throttle plate, rather they manipulate the valves to vary engine speed. That's some pretty crazy @!#$, folks. As I don't feel like doing any searching right now, I've read in the past about some of their diesel engine technology, and can attest they put out some monstrous torque figures from smaller displacements, not all too unlike what Mercedes is making with their Bluetec engines.
I love GM, hell I work for them, and I'll forever be a big fan of their V8s either in SB or BB form, but c'mon let's give our colective heads a shake. The Werks guys can make some incredible engines, and just like any other manufacturer, @!#$ DOES break even when you don't mistreat it.
There's a real good reason why a BMW is considered the benchmark for many things, especially "feel", and how so many other manufacturers take aim at them. How many times have you seen the G35 described as a 3-series fighter, or the CTS compared against the 5?
On the note on HP. A 3.0L with D-I, with all the BS gizmos BMW has to offer and not one but two Turbos and it produces only 300HP is pitiful.
All of what you mentioned in "engine technology" is reinventing the wheel, and quite frankly it is more sh!t that can break. When BMW comes out to the market with a new design of an engine, one that does not use pistons AND IT WORKS, then they have the right to be labeled "the forefront in technology." There is a reason why you don't see many 10+ year old BMWs running.
BMW Benchmark? That's is subjective and more importantly an person's opinion. Now IN MY OPINION a car in order to meet a "benchmark" criteria not only should it excel on the road, but it should also include a important aspect: longevity. It is like a race for 12 hrs, you can be fast as hell during race, but if you don't finish because of mechanical problems, nobody will care about you or your product. Today, BMW's competition is on par when it comes to driving experience, you have to be hater or a BMW nut-swinger to not recognize this, with it reliability ranking that is higher too. In other words, there is no reason to buy a BMW, unless you really like go to the BMW dealership religiously for repairs or just want to look "cool" as you're stranded on the sides with "the sexy BMW."
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-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----
Mike wrote:Wow, you guys talk like GM is the GOD of all things cars. Simply put, GM makes cars built by accountants.
the one thing GM knows how to make, for the most part, is engines and drive trains
Gm has had more engine issues then BMW I'd venture to say. Try ALL the V8 powered trucks the knock on start up due to the pistons being shapped wrong?!?! Sorry to have to burst any bubbles here but GM isn't the be all end all of engine builders.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Ummm the pistons wernt shaped wrong. Its the type of piston that was used. They slap a little when cold. Ill take a GM LS based small block over a BMW engine any day. The only reason GM would have more issues is because they have more engines on the road. Guy i used to work with had stupid BS go wrong with his BMW. Bolt in the head that had an o-ring under it to seal leaked. This bolt pluged a hole that served no seeable purpous. Customer of my dads had a 7 series with a v8 in it. Had to take it in for work due to oil consumption. $4000 later and the top end was resealed, was told valve seals were the culprit. Few thousand miles later and @!#$ was burning oil again. Got rid of that car. He went to buy a new 7 series and as soon as he saw the I drive thingy he said @!#$ it and left. I would gladly take a GM product ovr a BMW product any day.
BlownBlackZ wrote:I don't have any experience at all working with or on BMWs, and can't personally attest to how stout and well built their engines are, but you people are fooling yourselves if you think GM couldn't learn from the Germans in this regard. Let's talk about specific output. The magic number is 100hp per liter of displacement. GMs most powerful engine, the upcoming LS9 in the ZR1 - 6.2L, FORCE FED, and expecting 620hp or so. Right about 100hp/L. Sure the turbo Eco cranking out 260hp from 2.0 is impressive, but that's a rarity, and again it's force fed. New M3 - 420-ish HP from 4.0, no forced induction. M5/M6 - 507hp from 5.0L. Over 100hp/L, not force fed. Examples of things they've created/use: Individual throttle butterflies for each cylinder, infinitely variable valve timing on both intake and exhaust, and then there's the fact they have some engines that don't even HAVE a throttle plate, rather they manipulate the valves to vary engine speed. That's some pretty crazy @!#$, folks. As I don't feel like doing any searching right now, I've read in the past about some of their diesel engine technology, and can attest they put out some monstrous torque figures from smaller displacements, not all too unlike what Mercedes is making with their Bluetec engines.
I love GM, hell I work for them, and I'll forever be a big fan of their V8s either in SB or BB form, but c'mon let's give our colective heads a shake. The Werks guys can make some incredible engines, and just like any other manufacturer, @!#$ DOES break even when you don't mistreat it.
There's a real good reason why a BMW is considered the benchmark for many things, especially "feel", and how so many other manufacturers take aim at them. How many times have you seen the G35 described as a 3-series fighter, or the CTS compared against the 5?
Ill have to disagree with you on this one Bill. GM builds push-rod on mass right now. AND they do one hell of a job out of it. When you get into the whole DOHC realm of motor design, things become more expensive, Thus why almost every BMW is more expensive then its GM comparable counter part. Also note GM has built toe to toe motors HP wise in the past, the 3.4 DOHC in the z34's and Monte's of the 90's being the best comparison to the BMW I6's of the time
.
NOW my second point... DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR... You bring up the argument of displacement vs displacement, how taking a 5.0 motor and make it have more output the a GM comparable motor.... Lets bring up the dollar for dollar theory then
, I bet for the price of a single BMW motor, you could manufacture 2 to 3 GM equivalent motors.
. SO this then leads one to see that really, there is a class difference. You could also say GM's cheaper Dollar per HP wise as well
.
BUT when it comes down to it, IF I had the choice between owning a GM counterpart or a BMW, I would almost in all cases go with the BMW,the style, the class, the image. They all scream out vehicle.
My Cav
I give up...
i'm buying a VW those people love trees, so they should love eachother too... "Andy"
No thanks, GM just got thier entire engine lineup revamped and reliable , they dont need BMWs problematic @!#$
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
