I had an up close and personal look at the Mazdaspeed3 at the local dealer last weekend, and I feel in love. 263hp and 280 ftlbs@3000rpm outta the box for what seems like a paltry 23K dollars. I've been researching on sites like www.mazda247.com, which is one of the most active forums regarding the relatively new Mazdaspeed3.
What I've learned:
-real world dyno tests confirm the manufactures hp and tq claims, and indicate that it may be slightly underrated
-a cold are intake, of which there are many options already available for this two year old platform, yields as much as 20 hp and 20 ftlbs (!!!), again with real world dyno proof of the gains. (mazdaspeed parts retain warrenty)
-3" turbo back exhaust gains another 20-30hp
-new tmic gains 10-20hp
-no major problems reported, biggest complaint i see from owners is the sloppy six speed shifter, hence a short shifter is one of the first recommended mods. also, a motor mount bolt recall (big whoop)
So my question is, isn't this thing the biggest bang for the buck, both outta the box and lightly modded?? It seems like it takes a little less then 2k to put this thing over 300whp.
Check out some of the mazda forums for dyno sheets on this thing, it hits more like a V8 than a turbo four - the torque curve builds early and its pretty flat until redline, with peak tq at only 3000rpm. Power drops off a little toward the 6500rpm redline, but apparently the i/e and intercooler upgrades help take care of that. One of the major cons in my perspective is the relative lack of complete tuning solutions and the newer direct injection technology. I don't completely understand it yet, but apparently the fuel system is pump limited, as opposed to running out of injector like we are used to.
Ok now that I'm done singing its praises, what do you all think?
I just purchased a MazdaSpeed6, and you could probably get a Speed6 for $23-4 after rebates as well (Mines Speed6GT and has heated leather and keyless entry so it was a little more).
I sat in the Speed3 and at 6'4" it was just too small, and it was going for what the Speed6 was, which has AWD, and is bigger. Since it's my only car it was a no brainer for me. Your mileage may vary however.
Overall, I <3 the Speed6 grips and scoots like no other. I learned to drive stick on it, so the shifter isn't THAT bad. It does have some nice torque, but it doesn't have torque like a V8, it may look like it, but trust me it doesn't. It puts you in your seat for a bit though. The "sweet" spot is between 2500-5500 rpms.
I couldn't think of any better car for the money.
Thanks for the response - I read your post concerning when you got your speed6.
I "felt" more thrust from the speed3 than my bro's stock 99 mustang gt. What is the weight split between the speed6 and speed3? I know the speed3 is like 3100 lbs, I would assume the 6 is 300-500lbs more due to larger frame and AWD. Also, as im sure your aware, the computer lowers the boost for the first three gears in teh speed3; when tuning software overcomes that, its gonna be a fun ride on drag radials!!
I was not aware the speed6 was that cheap - its a car of EVO and STI caliber and I was thinking 30-35k range...
I was thinking the Speed3 was around 3200-3300, and then tack on about 400 for the Speed6.
Well, I was comparing it to a Ls1 GTO, and LS2 GTO and a 97 Cobra. Of course the LS2 has a big advantage in HP.
I haven't looked into doing anything that voids the warranty (IE tuning) because as my DD, and my level of income, I don't want to be replacing an engine or something out of pocket for ~20hp right now. Now if my income level changes, time for some modding. Other than that, it'll just be MazdaSpeed catalog parts.
The Speed6 stickers for 30-35, but as an example, my GT stickered for ~$32,000 and after rebates it was at $26,000 and then talked em down a little more from that. The Speed6 isn't as popular as the STI or Evo, for whatever reason. It's more of an older persons car I suppose, and old people tend to not like to drive stick, so... who knows. The STI and EVo are a little quicker, but I was looking for something that didn't look like it belonged in a high school parking lot.
Forgot to add, I believe the 263 hp number is the Euro tune, we have 274hp
.
Yea the Speed3 is "detuned" compared to the Speed6. I dunno, with the whole warrenty thing, if nothing goes wrong in the first 3-5k miles, it probably isn't gonna, so I can wait to mod that long. But if I would get the car, it would not be my DD, my 04 eco cav would take that place.
Overall, i was just amazed that you can get that much car for the price... Consider the competition in that close price vacinity...WRX, Cobalt SS, Sentra SER, Civic SI...for a new car, you just cannot do better. Of corse, you have to dig the hatchback style
After I got home from the dealer and did research on the aftermarket, I was yet again blown away by the quick response and potential of the powerplant.
My buddy has a Speed6, and I agree its a nifty little piece of work. The reason, or one of them at least, that the car is so responsive to bolt-on mods like intake and exhaust is because, according to Cobb Tuning, the ECU has one of the largest MAF tables of any vehicle they've ever seen. So you can do things like up the boost, add intake, exhaust, and intercooler, and the MAF table is big enough to compensate for all of it with minimal effort.
HOWEVER, the motor itself is weak, and the fuel system is limited as you said. My buddy has told me of several posts he' s seen with guys blowing their rods out of the block at 300 hp and higher. Better than a stock Eco, but when you take into account that other turbocharged engines like the 1.8T can take up to 450 before they really start having problems, its not that great.
Another downer is that Mazda seems to keep their Speed-series of vehicles to very limited production numbers, which results in a much smaller aftermarket than other vehicles of the class. And OEM replacement parts for the 2.3 DISI powertrain aren't cheap by any standard, and since so few are made, you won't be finding them in the junkyard for cheap either.
Thats why I love Cav's as a project car. Slap on a turbo, have some fun, blow the motor AND trans and you're still only looking at a $900 yard visit to get back on the road.
Admittedly though, if they made the Speed in the non-hatch version, I'd probably have to consider it myself. I'm normally a big fan of hatches, just not a fan of that particular hatchback.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
I wonder if the rod failure was due to detonation due to poor tuning, or if it is an actual failure due do the power limit. From what I've read, there is not much in the way of definitive tuning for the system, so upping the boost and trying go get rediculous power ouside of bolt ons is not safe/reliable at this point.
Its funny you mention limited production...at my local mazda dealer (reading, pa), there were at least six speed3 models...
Comparing this to a sti or evo is apples to oranges. Evos and STis are stripped down for a lighter weight and more geared toward race events.
It sounds nice and all but why so little power out of a 2.3L?
The 2.0 eco w/ DI is at 260/260 and good for at least 400 fwhp.
05 M6 YJ GTO 1 of 447 12.523@111.30
Sappy96 wrote:Comparing this to a sti or evo is apples to oranges. Evos and STis are stripped down for a lighter weight and more geared toward race events.
It sounds nice and all but why so little power out of a 2.3L?
The 2.0 eco w/ DI is at 260/260 and good for at least 400 fwhp.
I realize the comparison is not entirely justified, but even professional reviewers find themselves making that comparison. AWD>FWD in this case though...
I'm not sure what you are saying about the engine displacement...its got 20ft lbs more then the eco DI engine. I'm not sure if anyone has found a comfortable limit of reliability as far as power goes for either powerplant. Where did you find the info that the LNF is good for 400whp reliably? I thought there was no real tuning software that works well on that powerplant.
The rods, pistons, and crank should be the same as the s/c'ed 2.0 which was good for 400hp stock.
Yes it does have 20 more ft lbs but its .3L bigger or about 15-20cid(guesstimate)
05 M6 YJ GTO 1 of 447 12.523@111.30
MS3
intake/turboback (catted)/cpe ems at 18psi untuned/upgraded fuel pump/street tires/no weight reduction other then spare.
12.9@111mph
07 - VICTORY RED - LSD - GM STAGE 2 -FUJITA CAI - Ingalls ETD - SPORTLINES -
246whp 227wtq
Sappy96 wrote:The rods, pistons, and crank should be the same as the s/c'ed 2.0 which was good for 400hp stock.
Yes it does have 20 more ft lbs but its .3L bigger or about 15-20cid(guesstimate)
Yes, but I think the turbocharge used on the LNF has been determined to be maxxed....I'm not sure about the MS3, but you are not getting much more outta the LNF by upping the boost, except for more heat
They have a module to keep the car from limiting all of its power, however its around $1k and has to be hardwired.
oldskool wrote:Sappy96 wrote:The rods, pistons, and crank should be the same as the s/c'ed 2.0 which was good for 400hp stock.
Yes it does have 20 more ft lbs but its .3L bigger or about 15-20cid(guesstimate)
Yes, but I think the turbocharge used on the LNF has been determined to be maxxed....I'm not sure about the MS3, but you are not getting much more outta the LNF by upping the boost, except for more heat
correct.. it's a borgs warner thats designed to run at a max of 18 psi, and, from the factory it's at 18 psi
LE61T PTE6262 Powered
let me testify about borg warner turbos..... the sooner one has been removed from your motor, any motor, and replaced with a garret, the better.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
Scarab (Jersey Jay 1.8T) wrote:let me testify about borg warner turbos..... the sooner one has been removed from your motor, any motor, and replaced with a garret, the better.
yes, unfortunately the flange on the borg warner shares no interchangeability with any other turbo, you'd need an entirely new manifold or some kind of adapter flange
LE61T PTE6262 Powered
b0jan jebac - 8ball - wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHJ_XkX-Z0o&feature=related
So what is that vid of?
05 M6 YJ GTO 1 of 447 12.523@111.30
QBE (Aka Phil No More Boost) wrote:Scarab (Jersey Jay 1.8T) wrote:let me testify about borg warner turbos..... the sooner one has been removed from your motor, any motor, and replaced with a garret, the better.
yes, unfortunately the flange on the borg warner shares no interchangeability with any other turbo, you'd need an entirely new manifold or some kind of adapter flange
But the BW is used on the LNF, not the 2.3 DISI, correct? I'm not sure what turbocharger is used on the 2.3 DISI, but except for fueling issues, the system can benefit from upping the boost (read as the turbo is not maxxed from the factory)
oldskool wrote:QBE (Aka Phil No More Boost) wrote:Scarab (Jersey Jay 1.8T) wrote:let me testify about borg warner turbos..... the sooner one has been removed from your motor, any motor, and replaced with a garret, the better.
yes, unfortunately the flange on the borg warner shares no interchangeability with any other turbo, you'd need an entirely new manifold or some kind of adapter flange
But the BW is used on the LNF, not the 2.3 DISI, correct? I'm not sure what turbocharger is used on the 2.3 DISI, but except for fueling issues, the system can benefit from upping the boost (read as the turbo is not maxxed from the factory)
yes sorry to get off topic
LE61T PTE6262 Powered
We have a 07' MazdaSpeed 3 here (Black Mica) and it is a very nice car. It is the grand touring edition, and was about $24,000. Very fun car to drive.
-Aaron
www.TurboTechRacing.com
Performance Parts For Cavalier, Sunfire, Cobalts and More!!!
oldskool wrote:Turbo Tech Racing wrote:We have a 07' MazdaSpeed 3 here (Black Mica) and it is a very nice car. It is the grand touring edition, and was about $24,000. Very fun car to drive.
Sweet.
Are you modifying it?
Yes it is out proto type car for parts, We are making suspension upgrades and engine mounts (the factory ones break very easy)
-Aaron
www.TurboTechRacing.com
Performance Parts For Cavalier, Sunfire, Cobalts and More!!!
The base of the engine is pretty stout.
There are some runs half way through the video.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bve93EyPMj0
There's a dyno run video I've watched, can't find it though.
www.nyce1s.com might have it.
I looked into the 2.3 DISI engine a few months ago to see if it was variant of the Ford/Mazda world engine archetecture relationship, but found no info.
It's received a Ward's Auto ten best engine award two years in row.
http://wardsauto.com/reports/2007/tenbest/
