Well i made a post quite a few months ago about selling my cavi for a ls1 fbody. Ended up keeping the cavalier and buying an s2000 for a good deal. Iv been thinking about it constantly for about a week now as far as selling the s2k for a ls1 vette.(id most likely end up selling the cavi due to it wont be needed anymore and getting something that does good on gas like a civic or something.
i want the 97-04 due to cost and the non z06 due to cost and insurence cost. HC/Fast 90/90 are all on the 1st thing list so wether its an ls1/ls2, it wont really matter. 97-01 vettes are going for <20k in my area. i even saw a 97 with 108k on it for 14,xxx but it was an auto.
now onto the questions
1. Insurence. what do you all pay? age?
2. Any problems besides the weak factory clutch?
3. I know the rear ends in the fbodys are garbage. How are they in the vette?
4. What does everyone use for tuning? Easy? complex?
5 How much did you pay for your fbody/vette
These are my 2 biggest concerns..
6 I know on fbodys the motor has to come out from the bottom due to it sitting farther back. Is this the same in the vette? it looks like it sits further up and can come out of the top like a normal car.
7. Limits on the ls1 internals? max rpm seems to be around 6k from what iv red. is that correct? also what kind of power can the bottom ends take? Ls1 tech has alot of mixed answeres. and im waiting for my membership on the corvetteforums. if heard anything over 500rwhp and a better bottom end is needed.... that seems like a huge load of @!#$ since most lsx with HC//90. 90/ and all the basic bolt ons. make anywhere from 450-500rwp. and a supercharger on say 8psi cant be that much of a load on it? i mean @!#$, heads just make the thing breath better. its not like its putting a huge stress on anything. a blower and heads alone would net well over 500rwhp.
im gonan post this over on ls1tech and the vette forums soon as i get membership ok. but i wanna post here cuz therea quite a few people who switched to fbodys and i know theres a couple vettes and gtos around too
a LSX car is my dream car. now that i have a good job and i can sell that s2000, it is finally within my reach. Im just affraid of buyign a vette cuz of the exotic name and not being able to fix it or work on it
on a side note. aftermarket engine parts dont really seem that expensive from what iv seen. 200hp from a AFR head/cam package for <3k is pretty good. considering its just letting it breath more and not really work that much harder
12.5@116 2.0 60ft
I can help w/ some of the questions
#4. For more in depth tuning you would want EFI live or HP Tuners. Either one can get complicated if you don't know what you are doing but both have good forums to help out.
#7. I think 6500 rpm is about the most you would want to go on stock internals. The bottom end can hold a lot of power. Go to the LS1tech.com formums for more info. The stock crank should be good for 800 or so hp if I remember correctly. I
I heard insuring corvettes can be expensive.
Have you looked into a 04 GTO? You can get a 04 for a little bit more than that 97 vette. Like $17K or so.
05 M6 YJ GTO 1 of 447 12.523@111.30
chris aka lowfire has a vette. shoot him a pm
John H [CavalierKid wrote:
i want the 97-04 due to cost and the non z06 due to cost and insurence cost.
I paid few dollars less every 6 months on my 03 Z06 then on my 02 Sunfire GT, yep go figure.
>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----
Sappy96 wrote:I can help w/ some of the questions
#4. For more in depth tuning you would want EFI live or HP Tuners. Either one can get complicated if you don't know what you are doing but both have good forums to help out.
#7. I think 6500 rpm is about the most you would want to go on stock internals. The bottom end can hold a lot of power. Go to the LS1tech.com formums for more info. The stock crank should be good for 800 or so hp if I remember correctly. I
I heard insuring corvettes can be expensive.
Have you looked into a 04 GTO? You can get a 04 for a little bit more than that 97 vette. Like $17K or so.
yeah the crank was good for 800-900 from what info i found. but im concerned about the rods/pistons. The long run plan is heads/cam with a charger on 6-8psi.. but i dont wanna have to do to the vette, what i did to the cavalier...
i pmed chris too. thanks
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:John H [CavalierKid wrote:
i want the 97-04 due to cost and the non z06 due to cost and insurence cost.
I paid few dollars less every 6 months on my 03 Z06 then on my 02 Sunfire GT, yep go figure.
wow thats good to know. not to be nosey, but how much is it? how old are you anyway?
when i was 16 i was paying 172 a month for full coverage on my z24. iv had my eco since 04 and insurence started at 72 and is now down to 50 something.
12.5@116 2.0 60ft
#1 97-04 are either LS1 or LS6 , not 1 came with a LS2
knowing what your talking about and looking at are important
my other cars are cheaper than my cav for ins , its not wonder ins is a racket worse than the mob
John H [CavalierKid wrote:]
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:John H [CavalierKid wrote:
i want the 97-04 due to cost and the non z06 due to cost and insurence cost.
I paid few dollars less every 6 months on my 03 Z06 then on my 02 Sunfire GT, yep go figure.
wow thats good to know. not to be nosey, but how much is it? how old are you anyway?
when i was 16 i was paying 172 a month for full coverage on my z24. iv had my eco since 04 and insurence started at 72 and is now down to 50 something.
I f-up, I paid more on my Z06 then on my GT every 6 months, but it was not a large amount: it was under $100 difference for sure. When i get home, I'll tell you the exact figure.
>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----
[quote=97cavie24ls(™)]#1 97-04 are either LS1 or LS6 , not 1 came with a LS2
knowing what your talking about and looking at are important
my other cars are cheaper than my cav for ins , its not wonder ins is a racket worse than the mob
whoa my bad. what was the ls2 used in besides the 05+ gto?
i saw the 400hp rating in the z06 and 400 hp rating in the 05+ gto. i assumed it was the same motor.
well adding a new question. whats the difference between the ls2/ls6? both 6 liters? the ls3 is in the 05+ base vette with the ls7 being the optional. correct?
12.5@116 2.0 60ft
Nope. The LS2 was in the 05-07 Corvettes. The LS3 is in the 08+ and the LS7 is the Z06 engine from 05+. I'm not sure of the difference between LS2 and LS6 though. The LS2 is newer and the LS6 was last used on the previous Z06 models.
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* Student of the University of Oklahoma. Go Sooners!
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Well mine isn't a vette but a 2002 WS6 Trans am with the LS1 engine...
some of the stuff not sure where you heard it from.. but here is my 2 cents
as for the Clutch being weak.. it has taken a lot and by a lot i mean HUGE!!! abuse for the last 80,000kms and its still going strong and thats with the engine putting out 400rwhp and 410lbs/tq right off the show room floor as we had brand new heads (ports, new valves/springs ect), long tube headers, full header back 3" exhaust and a tune put on before we even picked it up really.. so id say they are pretty strong
f-body rear ends garbage?? how so? again lots and lots of abuse and still going strong on the T/A maybe once you get up into bigger power i might see them wearing out faster... but for stock up to 400rwhp its been good so far
there are a few programs i believe out there for tuning but HP tuners is one your going to most likely recognize and the simplest
as for a bone stock LS1 power limits.. id would say around 550-600rwhp you might want to consider doing an engine build up (also consider how many miles/kms are on the engine to start)
and honestly don't worry about parts being stupid amount... if you can work on cars in general the vette is not that hard to work on.. and take this from some one who has fixed up both a Jbody and a LS1 car... to by a fully built engine from Lingenfelter (403 LS2 to be exact) and that would hold well over 800rwhp cost the same if not a hair less then it would cost to fully build a Jbody engine LD9 or ecotec to hold 400whp... because the LSx engines are SOO popular with hot rodders and majority of muscle cars.. they sell so much product that parts are cheaper...
The First Twin Charged jbody
blue car (R.I.P) - 240whp @7psi..
silver car - 305whp 315lbs.tq @15psi (91 Octane) or 420whp & 425lbs.TQ @20psi (94 octane+Alcohol Injection)
All dynos run on a Mustang dyno
James Larsen wrote:Nope. The LS2 was in the 05-07 Corvettes. The LS3 is in the 08+ and the LS7 is the Z06 engine from 05+. I'm not sure of the difference between LS2 and LS6 though. The LS2 is newer and the LS6 was last used on the previous Z06 models.
First the last LS6 was used in the 05 CTS-v.
The LS2 has 364 cid the LS6 has a 346.
LS2 has more material on the intake manifold so it can be ported. LS6s can can't.
They have different cams, heads and block design.
I know as far as insurance mine dropped when I went to the GTO.
05 M6 YJ GTO 1 of 447 12.523@111.30
Josh F wrote:Well mine isn't a vette but a 2002 WS6 Trans am with the LS1 engine...
some of the stuff not sure where you heard it from.. but here is my 2 cents
as for the Clutch being weak.. it has taken a lot and by a lot i mean HUGE!!! abuse for the last 80,000kms and its still going strong and thats with the engine putting out 400rwhp and 410lbs/tq right off the show room floor as we had brand new heads (ports, new valves/springs ect), long tube headers, full header back 3" exhaust and a tune put on before we even picked it up really.. so id say they are pretty strong
f-body rear ends garbage?? how so? again lots and lots of abuse and still going strong on the T/A maybe once you get up into bigger power i might see them wearing out faster... but for stock up to 400rwhp its been good so far
there are a few programs i believe out there for tuning but HP tuners is one your going to most likely recognize and the simplest
as for a bone stock LS1 power limits.. id would say around 550-600rwhp you might want to consider doing an engine build up (also consider how many miles/kms are on the engine to start)
and honestly don't worry about parts being stupid amount... if you can work on cars in general the vette is not that hard to work on.. and take this from some one who has fixed up both a Jbody and a LS1 car... to by a fully built engine from Lingenfelter (403 LS2 to be exact) and that would hold well over 800rwhp cost the same if not a hair less then it would cost to fully build a Jbody engine LD9 or ecotec to hold 400whp... because the LSx engines are SOO popular with hot rodders and majority of muscle cars.. they sell so much product that parts are cheaper...
i got most of the info from the FAQ and posts on ls1 tech about the clutch and rear end and engine limits. i figured that 500rwhp was safe for the motor.
i know the Texas Speed 402,427, and 454 are all around that 4500-6500 area for a fully bulit forged motor. figure with heads, manifold and cam. close to the 10k mark(lil less thats into my cavi)
hows your insurence?
Sappy96 wrote:James Larsen wrote:Nope. The LS2 was in the 05-07 Corvettes. The LS3 is in the 08+ and the LS7 is the Z06 engine from 05+. I'm not sure of the difference between LS2 and LS6 though. The LS2 is newer and the LS6 was last used on the previous Z06 models.
First the last LS6 was used in the 05 CTS-v.
The LS2 has 364 cid the LS6 has a 346.
LS2 has more material on the intake manifold so it can be ported. LS6s can can't.
They have different cams, heads and block design.
I know as far as insurance mine dropped when I went to the GTO.
whats the insurence on your gto?
btw no on has said wether or not the motor can be pulled from above like normal. or if you have to drop it from under like the fbody.
the cavalier and s2000 engines were recomended to be dropped from below, yet my dad and i were able to get them pulled from above
12.5@116 2.0 60ft
I would think you should drop the engine but I am not sure as I don't have one.
My insurance on the GTO is currently 563 for 6 months.
There is the break down.
Bodily Injury 25,000/50,000 Limit per person/per accident $51.34
Property Damage 25,000 Limit per accident $51.47
Uninsured Motorists Coverage Coverage Selected $16.19
Uninsured Motorists Bodily Injury 25,000/50,000 Limit per person/per accident $0.00
Uninsured Motorists Property Damage 25,000 Limit per accident $0.00
Medical Payments 5,000 Limit per person $9.55
Extended Benefits Coverage Declined $0.00
Wage Earner Disability Benefits Coverage Declined $0.00
Essential Services Disability Benefits Coverage Declined Limit $0.00
Death Benefit Coverage Declined Limit $0.00
Comprehensive 500 Deductible per occurrence $105.91
Collision 500 Deductible per occurrence $320.88
Rental Reimbursement 15/450 Limit per day/maximum $6.50
Towing & Labor Coverage Selected $2.00
05 M6 YJ GTO 1 of 447 12.523@111.30
The difference was $81.33 more then the Sunfire GT at rate of $610 (ZO6) every 6 months for full coverage, in Miami FL.
Also from GMPP there is an LS3 crate engine, tall-deck LSX cylinder block and a trio of “LS” engine controller kits that make engine integration easy.
>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:The difference was $81.33 more then the Sunfire GT at rate of $610 (ZO6) every 6 months for full coverage, in Miami FL.
Also from GMPP there is an LS3 crate engine, tall-deck LSX cylinder block and a trio of “LS” engine controller kits that make engine integration easy.
thats not bad at all. specially for a big city. your only 5 years older then me. did u notice a big discoun when u turned 26?
josh, how much is your insurence on your ws6?
anyone thats posted have any problems yet?
12.5@116 2.0 60ft
Hello Hello...
I love my 97 C5 6speed. I paid 18K for mine with 50k on it. but it had a few tiny flaws in the paint and what not.
1. Do not waste 700.00 on the fast 90/90 until you need it otherwise its a waste of money. they only help after you have monster cam, or a decent amount of mods. Pick up the LS6 manifold if your 01 or older. the 02+ all come with it stock.
2. 97-98 PCM can be tuned , but not as detailed as the 99+ PCM which allow every tiny adjustment... but don't be shy of the 97-98s
3. The Trans and rear ends in the vettes are pretty strong. you have no worrys until you start pushing the 450-500HP range.. The weak link is the Output shafts. but you can upgrade them for rather cheap.
4. For insurance mine went up 100.00 a year over my cavalier. lol They base insurance on how many claims with the type car it is and cost.
Its actually would have cost me more to have bought an F body. lol So I was happy buying my vette.
Any other questions i will do my best to help.
insurance on my camaro is the same as the cav.
for as the weak rear diff. its the same problem i see with just about every other car. people spend lots of money to get lots of power. but dont bother upgrading axles, tranny, rear diff's, etc etc
Im a Xbox 360 fanboy...and damn proud of it!!
KEN 5.7 wrote:Hello Hello...
I love my 97 C5 6speed. I paid 18K for mine with 50k on it. but it had a few tiny flaws in the paint and what not.
1. Do not waste 700.00 on the fast 90/90 until you need it otherwise its a waste of money. they only help after you have monster cam, or a decent amount of mods. Pick up the LS6 manifold if your 01 or older. the 02+ all come with it stock.
2. 97-98 PCM can be tuned , but not as detailed as the 99+ PCM which allow every tiny adjustment... but don't be shy of the 97-98s
3. The Trans and rear ends in the vettes are pretty strong. you have no worrys until you start pushing the 450-500HP range.. The weak link is the Output shafts. but you can upgrade them for rather cheap.
4. For insurance mine went up 100.00 a year over my cavalier. lol They base insurance on how many claims with the type car it is and cost.
Its actually would have cost me more to have bought an F body. lol So I was happy buying my vette.
Any other questions i will do my best to help.
what flaws was it? just paint chips or any type of problem?
hrmm well the 1st mod i planned is the afr 205s and kooks headers. i figured with the heads. the fast 90/90 would be a decent mod
what are u using for tuning? mods on your car?
do the output shafts break under hard launching or just in that hp area?
100 a year? wow so like an extra 8 bucks a month?? your only 2 years older then me so thats good to know. hows your record? on parents policy or your own?/
12.5@116 2.0 60ft
also, whats this oil burning problem i hear about in ls1s?
12.5@116 2.0 60ft
My record is clean for the most part..
The flaws were paint chips and spots that need touch up. (to me not bad at all but to vette guys it mind as well be missing its wheels. lol) And the inner door panels have a problem with the final/leather glue letting go in the arm rest area. they fixed that in the later models. SO I just nee to pick up door skins which are about 200.00 a piece. I have EVERY option for its year too.
Right now I have Straight through Borla mufflers and the LS6 intake manifold, TB bypass and Zip tie intake mod. nothing major. But I think I have a gear in the rear end, because it has been opened before. and my year is suppose to be like 13.3 in the 1/4 and I can turn a 12.6 with a crappy 2.1 60ft.
The output shaft beak at the track when launching hard. I don't think there would be an issue on the street unless you had some CrAzY traction. my buddys S/C 02 Z06 is putting down 680hp at the wheels. still on the stock outputs. and he goes to the track with me. 4 times this year
But I have seen 2 Stock 06 Z06s break theres at the track. but thats also 500hp with Drag Slicks on em.
The oil buring is mainly in the first years like mine. some do some don't. its because the piston come up into the head a slight bit so the oil slips by a tiny bit. When I beat on my car which is like everyday, lol I go through a quart of oil about every month and a half. but thats only when i carry high RPMs like highway racing. the 02 and up years have all the tiny bugs worked out, but then you pay more..
I am happy with my car.. Every car has it little tweaks with it. I know some guys who have 97 and 98 with no problems. I know my car was driving hard so yea. just another reason to pull the motor and make her faster..
And for tuning I would let someone do it who knows what there doing. they will know what will work best for what you have done. I know just a tune on a stock 97 can yield about 20-25 hp alone.
Any other questions?
John H [CavalierKid wrote:
1. Insurence. what do you all pay? age?
Less than the J-Body
Quote:
2. Any problems besides the weak factory clutch?
The clutch is weak and just sufficient for stock power levels. Start beating on her or adding upgrades, and it is only a matter of time. Good thing there are a lot of options covering a lot of price ranges. LS7 Clutch/PP with LS2 Fly wheel and 01-02 F-Body Hydrolics go for about $700.
Quote:
3. I know the rear ends in the fbodys are garbage. How are they in the vette?
Theyre pretty sh1t. They are barely sufficient for stock power levels. The odd person has the rear last them forever ... a lot more common is the rear grenading once you start modifying and/or racing her ... and lets not forget the rears that implode even when the car is left stock.
Quote:
4. What does everyone use for tuning? Easy? complex?
HPTuners or EFI Live
Both are amazing systems with a lot of support and a large user base. Learning each system takes time, but that comes with the territory.
Quote:
5 How much did you pay for your fbody/vette
3 Kilos of uncut to a wetback named Ricky.
Quote:
6 I know on fbodys the motor has to come out from the bottom due to it sitting farther back. Is this the same in the vette? it looks like it sits further up and can come out of the top like a normal car.
Theyve been known to be done both ways in both cars, however, if you have access to a shop and tools take it out of the bottom.
Quote:
7. Limits on the ls1 internals? max rpm seems to be around 6k from what iv red. is that correct? also what kind of power can the bottom ends take? Ls1 tech has alot of mixed answeres. and im waiting for my membership on the corvetteforums. if heard anything over 500rwhp and a better bottom end is needed.... that seems like a huge load of @!#$ since most lsx with HC//90. 90/ and all the basic bolt ons. make anywhere from 450-500rwp. and a supercharger on say 8psi cant be that much of a load on it? i mean @!#$, heads just make the thing breath better. its not like its putting a huge stress on anything. a blower and heads alone would net well over 500rwhp.
Upgrade the rod bolts and you can spin her to 6800 all day long while sipping on a coke. The motor should be good well into the 500s as long as everything is maintained and taken care of ... which doesnt matter, considering an aggressive H/C combo with full bolt-ons will put you in the high 400s ... and going FI isnt a cheap mans kit ball game. Youll pull the stocker and put it something built towards taking a sh1t load of boost. FI LS1s are very, very, expensive ... besides the backyard kit you see from time to time on the forums.
John H [CavalierKid wrote:][quote=97cavie24ls(™)]#1 97-04 are either LS1 or LS6 , not 1 came with a LS2
knowing what your talking about and looking at are important
my other cars are cheaper than my cav for ins , its not wonder ins is a racket worse than the mob
whoa my bad. what was the ls2 used in besides the 05+ gto?
i saw the 400hp rating in the z06 and 400 hp rating in the 05+ gto. i assumed it was the same motor.
well adding a new question. whats the difference between the ls2/ls6? both 6 liters? the ls3 is in the 05+ base vette with the ls7 being the optional. correct?
LS1 and LS6 are both 5.7 , 346cu inches
LS2 is a 6.0 , 364 ci
LS2 uses the 243 heads the LS6 used , but with regular valves , the LS6 had lighter weight valves , cams were different
the oil burning was a issue with the block in the early years , there is still a issue with oil burning
ok i dont know much about vettes, but i know the insurance is going to be OUTRAGEOUS at your age
but if you can afford payments, and insurance, you are a lucky young man
First off, great choice for your next vehicle (i'm jealous). And ANYBODY who has or is interested in a LSx should check out GM HighTechPerformance.com.
i'd say go for a Z06, which in a C5 came with a LS6, and lots of various suspension goodies. by the time you add up the money/itme it would cost you to purchase install this stuff yourself it would offset the higher cost of the car/ins. There were two variations of that motor; 385hp and 405, depending on the model year.
the output shafts don't like drag launches with sticky tires, same with the stock f-body 10 bolts.
The potential of these cars gives me wood. RWD FTW!
Good luck.
www.ls1tech.com should be your only reading from now on. Go there, learn, be fast, and take down the mustangs.
