I have been researching for my new car purchase. I have noticed that Onstar is standard on most new GM's.
The new pitch is that it has a vehicle tracking for theft. If my car is stolen, I don't want it back. You know it's gonna see years of abuse in the short time of a joy ride. Could the Onstar not be disabled easily by ripping the antena off? So much for the theft deterent.
Will disabling Onstar cause you issues with GM?
I don't want a database file on my driving habits. It's only a matter of time that the info will be used against you. Too many redline shifts/no warranty, you were at the track/no warranty, you were speeding/ticket in the mail, you were at your mistresses house last night/no money.
I don't want that ugly little antena on my car. I don't want the holes drilled in the roof for it.
Onstar used to be an expensive option. I don't want to have the price built into the car. Nor will I ever pay for the service after it runs out.
Anyway, I am interested in others opinions. Will Onstar being required influence your car buying decision?
for every 1 person liek you there are 10 more that will want it.
its like air conditioning... if it wasn't in demand they wouldn't make it standard.
If it bugs you that much, buy something else.
Like me. lol. Where do you come up with one in ten?
I was a GM car salesman for a time. I don't recall anyone asking for Onstar. Ever. At most, it was a just another selling feature to talk about during a walk around.
It seems to me that you believe that asking for the onstar delete option is asking too much. Why is that?
My almost 20 years of GM product loyalty has been pushed to the limit these days. With Canadian prices being rigged, to Onstar being forced on me. It may just be the last straw. You might say good ridance. That's OK.
There are not too many negative issues with AC. It could be that I am alone in my opinioin.
I am posing the question anyway. I seems to me that you are not concerned. But you drive a car without it.
Ah yes, the traditional responce.
Not really what I'm looking for, but a definitive answer anyway.
Appreciated.
i would get it if it was in there. most come with the option of getting directions which does come in handy. or if i lock my keys in my car. call them up, boom, unlocked. or if i am ever in an accident, and my phone is never in my pocket so that would have been tossed where ever it ended up, air bags pop. onstar comes on sending help. id use it for the free year or whatever then let it go because the emergency service still works.
the 10 to 1 is not fact... its an example to go with my point "its like air conditioning... if it wasn't in demand they wouldn't make it standard."
deleting air bags, radios, hurns, lights, ABS, traction control, interior lights for the mirrors in the visors aren't options on most cars either...
You either liek the product or you don't... so once again.... If it bugs you that much, buy something else.
Darkstars wrote:the 10 to 1 is not fact... its an example to go with my point "its like air conditioning... if it wasn't in demand they wouldn't make it standard."
deleting air bags, radios, hurns, lights, ABS, traction control, interior lights for the mirrors in the visors aren't options on most cars either...
You either liek the product or you don't... so once again.... If it bugs you that much, buy something else.
Most of the featured you describe are mandated by law. Some that aren't are really cheap. I think the Onstar delete for the Zok package on the Solstice is $395. Unless you want a stripped down Solstive, you must pay for Onstar.
Air conditioning made standard makes for more oportunity for repair. There was no AC delete in my other car. So when my compressor died, I had to buy a new one. I'm pretty sure that is the motivation for making it standard. I have since found an aftermarket pulley. Go figure. Products are designed to last a specific time. Is that Conspiracy?
Who's demanding Onstar? Like I said, not one customer of mine asked for it.
Like I said, I am certainly considering other options. But why not just make the option...optional.
Craig ,
Your concerns for OnStar sound a lot like concerns for possible odb-3 options. According to the OnStar diagnostic policy, it looks almost identitical to what many are speculating obd-3 will be about. Maybe GM is developing more advanced OnStar systems to pitch the idea to state governments looking for emissions controls (i.e. California, New York...etc.) I wouldn't recommend taking your antenna off of the vehicle. If your state suddenly requires that you need OnStar for emissions controls, it might be pricey to trak down a new antenna and re-install OnStar.
My main concern is the safety and who is looking at OnStar's information. How vulnerable is their network? Personally, I won't buy any car that tracks information about me. I'll drive classic cars just to avoid the situation.
Cr0nuS wrote:Craig ,
Your concerns for OnStar sound a lot like concerns for possible odb-3 options. According to the OnStar diagnostic policy, it looks almost identitical to what many are speculating obd-3 will be about. Maybe GM is developing more advanced OnStar systems to pitch the idea to state governments looking for emissions controls (i.e. California, New York...etc.) I wouldn't recommend taking your antenna off of the vehicle. If your state suddenly requires that you need OnStar for emissions controls, it might be pricey to trak down a new antenna and re-install OnStar.
My main concern is the safety and who is looking at OnStar's information. How vulnerable is their network? Personally, I won't buy any car that tracks information about me. I'll drive classic cars just to avoid the situation.
Cool. Another "conspiracy nut."
An Onstar type system would certainly stop anyone modding their car significantly. A Mr. Darkstars type turbo car may never have happened if this type of legislation ever comes up. We know it is comming. CA is a perfect example of the irrational progression. Even if you are out of warranty, the emission police will certainly have issue with your ride. HP Tuners will be a sofware program for the track only. The automotive aftermarket would certainly be limited to the bling bling.
Emission checks here in Canada did little for the environment. All it did was make us throw parts at our older cars. If you continually failed, you could buy an emission free pass in essense.
GM stands to make a great deal of extra money. If you add in 395 for every car, that's big bucks.
I am supprized that an Onstar hack has not been talked about. If the highest security computer systems can be hacked, Onstar will be an easy target. A computer savy car thief could warm your car up before he unlocks the doors. This is after he locates the vehicle via the built in GPS pinpointed location.
Anyway. I appreciate the discussion, from both points of view.
/Aside
If data is recorded, then it is potentially accessable to outside sources.
Much like your banking and entire financial history is available to the eyes of a Personal Detective.
What does that mean?
Well, lets say you observe an accident. The injured party will go and hire a lawyer on an 'if I win I get a certain percentage' rate. The first thing they will do is see if there is any money to be won ... from the person who caused the accident, from the car maker, the municipality, the nearby property owners, and anybody else who may have deep pockets. If nobody has any money, no one is going to get sued. Back to you and your OnStar car. After having several private investigators to extensive background searches (which they perform with only your name, which they can get from your plate) on everybody involved, the lawyer discovers *YOU* have $500,000 saved up in a retirement fund in your name. They come after you. They come after you because your lane merger inadvertently caused another person to hit their brakes which resulted in a chain reaction causing the accident. It doesnt matter what is right here, what matters is how well the lawyer can argue. So now youre going to court for some BS. BS that is taking a major toll on you financially and emotionally because now you need to go get a lawyer as well. But wait, it gets better. The Lawyers, in all of their digging, have come across your OnStar records! They show a history of mildly aggressive driving habits ... hard accelerations, hard braking, going above the speed limit. Even more fuel to the fire to build a convincing argument against you.
All of your information, about everything, is out there and available for a price. It is legal and anybody can access it. If data is recorded, stored, or filed, someone can pull it up. While this sort of thing lends itself to the conspiracy theorists and the NWO, I do not believe anyone out there is actively looking through Billions of peoples information for a purpose. It only becomes a problem when somebody has a goal in mind, RE: Money, and then your privacy is pretty much non-existent.
As for OnStar ... I have no idea Craig.
im kinda with darkstars on this one...
on-star is comming standard, so we will just have to deal with it.
the cost to ADD onstar to a car was $395 when you were a sales man at the customers cost. the cost to add onstar to a car at GMs cost was probably half of that.
now on-star comes on the car standard. it is now involved in the mass production process of the car and is now even cheaper for GM to install. it probably costs them about a whopping $50 for them to put it in the car on the production line. before, when onstar was not an option it would have been more of a hassle and a pain to install it im sure since it was not in all vehicles on the line.
thats the same reason why it costs you $400 to have it removed. now they have to do something to that car that isnt part of their normal mass production process.
as for the information being used that they collect, i say good for them if they are that bloody smart to figure that out. they deserve to exploit me! im only joking about this. selling of information has been going on for decades. tey are just getting more creative with how they do so. and also, with canadian privacy laws, anything too vital they will have a hard tiime figuring out a loop hole to be able to sell that info off.
1997 RedR - ZedR
If I'm not mistaken the PCM can tell you that data anyways, how many times you red lined, abuse on the engine etc ... Onstar is a free service for a year, if you don't like it after a year, then don't continue the subscription. Also, like Ryan said,
if you don't want it go some where else, its not that hard. Oh, and as far as the whole "air conditioning being mandatory" the solstice came with out air. If you don't believe me ask the people that did the AC delete and ask them what car they got the serpentine belt from.
dan
Isn't OnStar connected through the factory stereo? I know nothing about it but i know they talk to people via something...i just assume it's the radio. I could be wrong it could be a seperate speaker and mic.
But If it's throught the radio and you put in an aftermarket stereo what happens?
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Great perspectives. I appreciate the responces even if I seem to argue.
I'm not sure my objection is entirely derived from privacy concerns. My cell phone already has GPS built in. It's a matter of fact that our record of life is out there for the purchase. I do get irritated with constant telemarketing though. This industry is a direct product of such automated databases and so called invasions of privacy. Bastards!
I do admit that the thought of a speeding ticked issued by wireless almost freaks me out. Automated photo radar was a drag. Every road being that tight would drive me nuts. I am a responsible driver with a record to prove it, but I have crept over 50km/h over the limit a few times. That brings you to a possible 10,000 dollar fine, Impound of the car, and the legal posibility of criminal code charges in my area. I suppose the whole point is that if you can afford to speed, you have the choice to pay the voluntary tax.
I feel the additional safety of onstar might be overated. I am sure that most all accidents are in populated areas. I have always wondered if the lonely driver that drove off the road in the middle of knowhere might have simply experienced a Darwin Event.
I may be confused, but you get a credit for 395 for the ZOK Onstar delete. My recollection is that Onstar, as a seperate option, was far more than that. I wish they offered a stripped down version of the Delta car. I'd buy that right away!
I have heard of many people getting hassled about "hard use" at dealers when it comes to warranty. Does that concern anyone? A overly worn set of tires has caused many a world of hurt when it came to claim time. I myself have spun my tires maybe 4-5 times over the 4 years of having the Monte.
dubduce18s wrote:Oh, and as far as the whole "air conditioning being mandatory" the solstice came with out air.
Darkstars wrote:aren't options on most cars either...
nowhere does it say every single car has a A/C
Cronos is kinda on to it...
The EPA is regulating beginning with OBD-3 cars, that they have the ability to be reprogrammed "over the air" while the vehicle is running. This is why most newer PCM's have dual bank FLASH chips. One for the running version, one for the uploading version. When the version is through uploading, it switches FLASH chips during driving and you don't notice your ECU has been upgraded. This isn't conspiracy theory, its fact. Speeding tickets while driving, yeah, thats probably not going to happen, how would they know who to issue the ticket to? You could say you borrowed your car to a friend, etc.
Either way, over-the-air programming is going to start appearing on other makers vehicles soon, with options similar to On-Star. Granted GM needs to find a way to integrate the antenna into the body, but its an inevitability.
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Craig Lewis wrote:Air conditioning made standard makes for more oportunity for repair. There was no AC delete in my other car.
Ryan, I was referring to this quote sorry for the confusion.
And something that just came to me, I think there was a late 90's model Viper that didn't come with a radio. Nothing is really standard on your car.
dan
you keep saying that none of your customers asked for it during the selling/buying process, which makes me wonder if you even offered it. A consumer can only purchase what is offered to them, very little customers come in asking for something, with every option/accessory.
I work at radioshack, and although on a smaller scale, I know this, a customer has not once come into the store asking for a new sprint phone, with the right plan, right features (text messaging, media bundles...etc...), or the right accessories (case, clip, bluetooth headset). These are all things that are offered during the selling process.
OnStar I believe is a great feature to allow consumers to never be left stranded. There are a ton of features that OnStar provides the subscriber. The simple fact GM is making it standard on new vehicles is not so they can take over the world, but because they make money on every subscriber. GM probably makes little money on the actual hardware, so they mnake it standard and give a "free trial" period. All of sudden the OnStar product is out there and being used, I'm sure there are people who said they would never use it, then they end subscribing to it, because they use it.
Also, it would be illegal for GM to use this information against you in anyway, they couldn't give you a speeding ticket using the hardware of the system, because the government would not be allowed to purchase the information from GM. Warranties could not be voided because of the information in the OnStar system, that would be protected as well.
I appologize for the reference to the standard air conditioning on my beater. I suppose I made it to point out that many forced options are done so to either build in additional profit or contribute to the additional running costs of that vehicle. Maybe a silly example of "conspiracy".
As I mentioned before, photo radar was here in Toronto. They did in fact issue tickets by mail and to the vehicle and not the driver. These tickets were recorded remotely and automatically by camera. No people were invoilved in the transaction. Any speed above posted was fined. A group of drivers got together and drove side by side at the limit. Efectively blocking the highway at speed. They were fined for this. I guess you couldn't win either way. The practice was argued in court and removed because the government should not be able to fine a vehicle. Is it a stretch to consider the remote fine. lol. I'd be @!#$ if the demolition man cusing fine was enacted.
I certainly did sell onstar as a feature. Most that know me understand that I am in fact a master salesman. A trait I sometimes am embarassed about. Friends do point this out to me. I'll be clearer. Nobody ever asked me which cars came with onstar. They were more concerned with colour and image. The responces to this thread might change my perception of Onstar's image.
I have to go for the Sunday drive thing with the wife. I will keep the speed down none the less. I hope this thread continues. I at least find it worth a few moments.
Sorry if I ended up acting like a dick but all in all, I hope you get what you like. Happy hunting
dan
I have a 07 silverado classic, no onstar
I have an LS1 Trans Am.
It talks to me, randomly ... and calls me Michael and sh1t ...
I don't have a problem with Onstar being standard on any car, however I wouldn't go out of my way to get a car that has one. As some people already stated, Onstar can be a great feature and with some people it can give them some definite peace of mind. Onstar is much like Satellite Radio in the fact that it's becoming harder and harder to find a vehicle that doesn't come with it standard. These manufacturers have got to come up with a way to make the antenna on the Onstar system, as well as the Satellite Radios, more integrated into the body for a cleaner look. I'm sure it'll happen one day, but it's just taking too long for my taste.
As far as Big Brother watching me...I'm not really concerned about that. I'm a mild speeder (usually go 5 - 10 mph above the speed limit on the Interstate) so if there was something in my car that was clocking my speed...I don't think I would be too concerned about it. Sure, I might curb my driving manners for a little while but it'll get to the point where I wouldn't care any more and let whatever happens, happen.
Just thinking with all of these safety features that are being implemented on cars now-a-days (tire pressure monitoring being one of them) it just may make custom modifying of a car the thing of the past, unless you do it directly from the dealer's supply of official aftermarket goodies supplied by the manufacturer.
