So now they are just like Chevy, Ford & and Chrysler. Everything they make is better than they're core brand.
hahahaha-...-er, uhm.
Or not. I'd stop cutting the cake and cancel the beer & dancing girls...Because none of their products could even crack the top ten...except Buick. So is it really a bad thing that Toyotas reliability slipped so hard when They and all their sub-brands can still make the
top 5? Shouldn't we all be laughing that the least reliable car is the Pontiac Solstice whose reliability was calculated to be 234 percent worse than average? Or that the Cadillac Escalade is right there too at 220 percent less reliable than the average vehicle? Isn't more funny that those 2 are considered bread and butter halo cars by GM and they suck so badly?
Shouldn't we be laughing that of the 39 cars rated "Most Reliable" in Consumer Reports new list, 3 of the four domestic manufacturers of those cars are actually borrowed Japanese platforms?
The Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan Is actually just rebodied Mazda 6's
Pontiac Vibe....well I don't need to tell you who makes that. Because that would be really embarrassing. But I’ll give you a hint. They rank10 spots higher than Chevy 12 more than Pontiac but only made it to the number 5 spot. (now THAT is funny)
Basically since GM, Ford and Chrysler are missing from the top ten...again, with one exception Buick...at exactly 10. I don’t think a GM nutswinger has any grounds to laugh at Toyota. Now had they dropped from 1 to say below Chevy or at like 11 down by Mercury and Ford. That would be LOL funny. But any GM guy finding it ironically funny that Toyota (who can still rank in the top 5) Should really find it funny that Lexus, Scion and Toyota all rank together in the Top 5. Yet even with improved product and quality over the last 2 years GM still can barely crack even the top 20 in overall quality across all their brands.
"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net
ive still had less problems with any of my GM vehicles , than my sister has had with her imports
and besides this is about TOYOTA , not anyone else !!!!!!!!!!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, October 16, 2007 12:31 PM
You have to figure though, they're saying XXX percent below the AVERAGE vehicle. Now how many people drive Cavaliers? How many people drive Pontiac Solstices? Say 100 people have problems with their Cavy and 100 people have problems with their Solstice, who's going to have the worst percentage?
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"In the past, because Toyota (Charts) products have so consistently proved reliable, the magazine would assume at least average reliability for Toyota's brand new cars, without waiting for survey data from owners.
But from now on, the magazine will wait for a full year of reliability survey data to come in before it recommends a Toyota product - as it does with most other manufacturers."
Wow......Am I the only one that notices something wrong with this statement? Shouldn't reliability ranking be based on real data rather than someones assumption? Especially from an entity like Consumer Reports?
blueakron04 wrote: "In the past, because Toyota (Charts) products have so consistently proved reliable, the magazine would assume at least average reliability for Toyota's brand new cars, without waiting for survey data from owners.
But from now on, the magazine will wait for a full year of reliability survey data to come in before it recommends a Toyota product - as it does with most other manufacturers."
Wow......Am I the only one that notices something wrong with this statement? Shouldn't reliability ranking be based on real data rather than someones assumption? Especially from an entity like Consumer Reports?
Yeah, honestly that was the most startling thing i read on there. So it's my thought that Toyotas quality rating for the last few years were simply based on "assumption" and this years ratings are based more on fact. Hence why they made such a huge jump to number 5. I still will trust CR over J.D. Power and Intellichoice when it comes to rating. I learned from when I worked at American Suzuki Automotive and Ford that those companies are bribed with money in exchange for better quality ratings. I couldn't believe it, but it was true.
"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net
Jookycola wrote:blueakron04 wrote: "In the past, because Toyota (Charts) products have so consistently proved reliable, the magazine would assume at least average reliability for Toyota's brand new cars, without waiting for survey data from owners.
But from now on, the magazine will wait for a full year of reliability survey data to come in before it recommends a Toyota product - as it does with most other manufacturers."
Wow......Am I the only one that notices something wrong with this statement? Shouldn't reliability ranking be based on real data rather than someones assumption? Especially from an entity like Consumer Reports?
Yeah, honestly that was the most startling thing i read on there. So it's my thought that Toyotas quality rating for the last few years were simply based on "assumption" and this years ratings are based more on fact. Hence why they made such a huge jump to number 5. I still will trust CR over J.D. Power and Intellichoice when it comes to rating. I learned from when I worked at American Suzuki Automotive and Ford that those companies are bribed with money in exchange for better quality ratings. I couldn't believe it, but it was true.
why does the bribing surprise you ? its been well known alot of magazines will sway heavy in a direction of certain cars and trucks
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, October 16, 2007 3:05 PM
You need several sources of data, going by Consumer Reports alone is folly.
First: Consumer Reports is NOT unbiased. Their tests are at least 50% subjective, and rely on polling of Consumer Reports' subscribers for opinions on the product, and
never asking if they actually own the product. The car testing regimen is at best flawed, and they use a prediction of incidence of problems that is at best... suspect. They call their data the most comprehensive, but they don't back it up with the information from the manufacturers, nor from NTSB/NHTSA... J.D. Power & Associates does. CR doesn't, I'll trust multiple data sources over a phone/web survey any day.
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/default.aspx
GAM, i just said that J.D. Power is on the take. That's for real. In my opinion then nobody is to be trusted. But My boss at Suzuki said J.D. Power is a lot easier to sway, they require less money to and perks to up the numbers. Intelichoice is the worst, they'll bleed you for as much cash as they can get to get them to move. Also while at Ford and Suzuki I learned that the NADA and Kelly Blue Book are on the take as well. Ford and GM throw cash at those two to help boost resale value on newer cars, But like my boss at suzuki said the big 3 don't throw enough at them so J.D. Power, NADA & KBB burn them anytime they can.
By boosting the resale of newer vehicles, it allows them to ask for more on the sticker of the similar new models. It's a complicated scheme i can't divulge on here...it's more typing than i care to do. It's a trick Suzuki learned ffrom parent company GM and they've taken it so far they have an entire department at Suzuki called "Resale Development". All they do is schmooze these poll/survey guys and broker big money deals to help paint a brighter corporate picture. It's done them well as Suzuki sales are always going up quarter after quarter. The head of Resale Development once told me if the domestic guys would put up the cash instead of fighting it they'd be able to crush imports...but they're too cheap to to just make it happen. Frankly, that disgusted me.
So i trust nothing that says they are trusted sources of quality or whatever. I take word of mouth as my benchmark and the polls, and survey guys act as a "loose" idea of what is is good and bad. J.D. Powers is the the most crooked and dishonest of quality surveys so they hold the least amount of cred.
"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net
It won't be much longer before Toyota slips a bit more....things will get a bit more even were there should be.
The big 3 are so far behind it is going to take years before the pass the imports.
Oh the other hand, anyone who needs a magazine to buy a car is pretty much a moron anyways....
Would you buy a particular house because the book said so?
Good old fashion test driving on getting out there yourself still can't be replaced.....
When I want to know how well refrigerators and washing machines work, I will refer to Consumer Reports. When I want to see automotive quality studies, I will refer to JD Power.
From my experience, if I want a commuter- everyday car, give me a Toyota. If I want a SUV, Pick-up or a fast sports car, give me a Chevrolet. If I want luxury that would be a tough decision between Lexus and Cadillac.
>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----
