We talked on it before.
Here is the latest article.
With new EPA ratings, car companies will be going thorugh some challenges to meet this average, GM's RWD future looks grim.
Diesel anyone?
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-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----
2020?
Automakers have to work extra hard now, only a decade or so to go
Yeah Automakers got a double whammy this week.
EPA proposes tougher smog standards. I can see cars making the 35mpg standard but full size Trucks and SUV's no, unless they radically change front end aerodynamics and add Hybrid technology. Oh well it was nice to dream of a GM RWD future but I guess we're going to have more fwd compacts shoved down our throats.
Sen. Ted Stevens (R., Alaska) is crafting a fuel economy compromise which softens the current, strict Senate proposal for new MPG standards, The Wall Street Journal reported.
Under provisions of the current Senate bill, automakers would have to achieve a fleet-wide 35 miles per gallon for their cars and trucks by 2020, with 4% annual mileage increases over the next decade after, finally reaching 52 mpg by 2030.
Stevens's plan kills the 4% annual mileage increases but keeps the target of 35 mpg by 2020. It also defines that goal as a "domestic fleet-wide" target that is "not per manufacturer." The current Senate bill would require each automaker to independently build and sell fleets that achieved the target. Stevens's compromise also removes a section from the current Senate bill that would require automakers to increase the percentage of flex-fuel vehicles in their fleets from 50% in 2012 to 80% in 2015. Flex-fuel vehicles are cars and trucks that can run on either gasoline or alternative fuels such as E85, a blend of 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline.
Under the current federal mileage regime, known as corporate average fuel economy, or CAFE, automakers must achieve 27.5 mpg for passenger cars and 22.2 mpg for light trucks.
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-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----
someone needs to write me in for president
those standards are as ridiculous as the people making them
why are those standards rediculus? American's use more fuel per capita than anyone and anywhere in the world. If you ask me this is not nearly enough to curb what fuel problems we will be experiencing in 13 years. If you ask most economists and/or scientists, our oil situation in 10 years could be much more dire causing problems to ripple throughout our economy. This is just one step in the right direction. It wont be until we see gas prices on the order of 6-7 dollars a gallon such as in Europe that I will feel that enough is being done. I mean in all honesty I am a college student and I can in no way afford gas at that price. However, if it doesnt steadily increase we will have a MUCH worse situation later on. Plus, If we can raise emissions standards or alternative fuel usage, in turn using less oil, there is a good possiblilty that oil could be not only much more sustainable, but also cheaper. I dont want an economic recession in 10-20 years when the world is shocked by drastically less oil and in turn higher prices. Oh well I guess, what do I know right? lol, Im just happy i have a lil neon that gets 32 mpg.
-Harrison
Ive converted the LS1 to run off alternate fuels ...
Seal.
Harrison Crow wrote:why are those standards rediculus? American's use more fuel per capita than anyone and anywhere in the world. If you ask me this is not nearly enough to curb what fuel problems we will be experiencing in 13 years. If you ask most economists and/or scientists, our oil situation in 10 years could be much more dire causing problems to ripple throughout our economy. This is just one step in the right direction. It wont be until we see gas prices on the order of 6-7 dollars a gallon such as in Europe that I will feel that enough is being done. I mean in all honesty I am a college student and I can in no way afford gas at that price. However, if it doesnt steadily increase we will have a MUCH worse situation later on. Plus, If we can raise emissions standards or alternative fuel usage, in turn using less oil, there is a good possiblilty that oil could be not only much more sustainable, but also cheaper. I dont want an economic recession in 10-20 years when the world is shocked by drastically less oil and in turn higher prices. Oh well I guess, what do I know right? lol, Im just happy i have a lil neon that gets 32 mpg.
-Harrison
your prob 1 of those piss ants that buys a SUV and goes 10 under the limit and has a block under the pedal to limit the pedal to only 1/4 throttle too
ive got a few vehicles with alot of horse power , and i aint afraid to use , even in my cav i wasnt afraid to hit the floor
25-30 mpg is reasonable for large sized cars , 30+ for mid to small
20-25 in a gas truck would be nice
I didnt pick you out of the crowd or say anything offensive toward you at all. I simply made a comment, that was all, so i hope you arent calling me a piss ant. Anyway, If you read my post i said i have a neon that my grandfather left me that gets 32 mpg. If you read further you would have also seen that I said i am a college student and cannot afford gas at even 3 dollars a gallon, hence the reason why i go exactly the speed limit, slowly accelerate, and watch my driving habits. I love speed and horsepower as much as the next guy, but physically cannot afford to do so.
The point is this, Americans demand power. Plain and simple. What we need to do is also demand higher mileage cars and demand that auto manufacturers produce these in conjunction on future model vehicles. What this will do will cause an explosion in technology, jobs, and anything else associated with the auto industry. The problem however lies in shifting markets to cause these types of demand because any economist will tell you that supply chains dont shift until demand chains do.
- Harrison
It is ridiculous seeing as how high standards are going. They want all these tougher limits on car companies to make things more fuel effiecent and to reduce emissions and what not, yet the price of gas will STILL continue to increase no matter what the result is.
Harrison Crow wrote:I didnt pick you out of the crowd or say anything offensive toward you at all. I simply made a comment, that was all, so i hope you arent calling me a piss ant. Anyway, If you read my post i said i have a neon that my grandfather left me that gets 32 mpg. If you read further you would have also seen that I said i am a college student and cannot afford gas at even 3 dollars a gallon, hence the reason why i go exactly the speed limit, slowly accelerate, and watch my driving habits. I love speed and horsepower as much as the next guy, but physically cannot afford to do so.
The point is this, Americans demand power. Plain and simple. What we need to do is also demand higher mileage cars and demand that auto manufacturers produce these in conjunction on future model vehicles. What this will do will cause an explosion in technology, jobs, and anything else associated with the auto industry. The problem however lies in shifting markets to cause these types of demand because any economist will tell you that supply chains dont shift until demand chains do.
- Harrison
i was actually being sarcastic , because of the neon
A big reason we North American's use so much fuel is because of our infrastructure and our cities sprawl. And that is thanks to the politicians and corporations that make decisions for us.
We Canadian's certainly use a great deal of energy because we are damn cold sometimes.
Please don't use Europe to describe what it should be like. Cause it's not.
Does anyone realize what e85 will do to food prices if it really catches on.
I wish they would chose to tax weight. This would force the car companies to work on light weight designs and material rather than taking all the fun out of the car.
With the way things are going now, by 2020 I think hydrogen will be more then viable. The only question is will it be affordable that quickly. No doubt hydrogen powered vehicles are going to cost a lot of money when they hit the market. I think though that they are the key to the future, especially with these new standards.
I wonder, though, how this will affect the use of E85. After all, cars get far worse mileage running on E85 then on regular gas.
Oh well...
RIP fossil fuel.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about
the former." - Albert Einstein
I wish they would chose to tax weight. This would force the car companies to work on light weight designs and material rather than taking all the fun out of the car.
Yea that was totally my point, i guess i just wasnt very clear. I was simply saying that market demand will not begin to shift in the US until our gas prices reach those levels. I think there are far better ways to go about changing demand without letting it get to that point. Personally I jus twanna see something happen and sit back and watch technology boom...that would jsut be cool for everyone...
sorry for double post, but i just wanted to add that another viable issue here is not so much shifting markets, its also s hifting infrastructure. We are currently set up to run gas and SOME, very little in relation to gas, but some e85. The problem lies in giving ourselves time to shift to alternative fuel sources as they all require somewhat unique characteristics as far as storage and such...these kinds of things arent done overnight.
If the tree huggers had it their way, we would all be walking instead of driving. I do agree that technology needs to continue to develop more and more fuel efficient cars along with lighter weight materials, the government isnt the one that should be imposing this. The CAFE standards are silly at best as it comes down to someone's opinion (or government) what good gas mileage should be in 2020. Well, if gas is $3 bucks a gallon, and I'm shopping for a car and I can only budget X number of dollars from my paycheck to buy gas to drive the car, guess what? I probably will buy a vehicle who's gas mileage fits my budget. The government should however fund the research to assist manufacturers to find alternate fuels and make cars more efficient. Sort of like what was done during the 1960's Nasa space program. Taxing gasoline only hurts low income people, it will not stop Joe Millionaire from gassing up his 10mpg Bentley GT.
Well, that's my 2 cents.
LMAO
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
JinxedZ THE LOVED ONE wrote:Craig Lewis wrote:
I wish they would chose to tax weight. This would force the car companies to work on light weight designs and material rather than taking all the fun out of the car.
Bingo.
i agree as well.
however i am also for some sort of govt mandated horsepower limits, like in Japan. I mean lets get real, does Ms.Secretary need a 345 hp magnum station wagon?, or a toyota camry v6 which runs in the 14's?( like the newest ones do). Many people out there have enough trouble keeping control of a 130hp, 17 second mitsu lancer. with the constantly increasing traffic, as well as in car distractions such as cell phones, PDA's, navigation systems...i think some of these more mundane, non sports car vehicles need to be toned down.
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Ronin J wrote:
however i am also for some sort of govt mandated horsepower limits, like in Japan. I mean lets get real, does Ms.Secretary need a 345 hp magnum station wagon?, or a toyota camry v6 which runs in the 14's?( like the newest ones do). Many people out there have enough trouble keeping control of a 130hp, 17 second mitsu lancer. with the constantly increasing traffic, as well as in car distractions such as cell phones, PDA's, navigation systems...i think some of these more mundane, non sports car vehicles need to be toned down.
You've got to be smoking some @!#$ crack
. The day some polotician tells people that they're not allowed to own a 400hp vehicle will be a day of Anarchy and the overthrowing of the government.
Spike J wrote:Ronin J wrote:
however i am also for some sort of govt mandated horsepower limits, like in Japan. I mean lets get real, does Ms.Secretary need a 345 hp magnum station wagon?, or a toyota camry v6 which runs in the 14's?( like the newest ones do). Many people out there have enough trouble keeping control of a 130hp, 17 second mitsu lancer. with the constantly increasing traffic, as well as in car distractions such as cell phones, PDA's, navigation systems...i think some of these more mundane, non sports car vehicles need to be toned down.
You've got to be smoking some @!#$ crack . The day some polotician tells people that they're not allowed to own a 400hp vehicle will be a day of Anarchy and the overthrowing of the government.
not that they arent allowed to own,modify and build to your hearts content, but i dont see the need for some of these A to B sedans posting near or over 300HP and 14 sec or faster times. toyota camry has like 269hp...WHY??? at its curb weight 200 or 225 HP would be more than enough to move it along...and detuned to that level it would get better mileage anyways. Im all for high power sports cars (S2K, GTO, Z06, etc), but mom and pop cars dont need that kinda power...
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Ronin J wrote:not that they arent allowed to own,modify and build to your hearts content, but i dont see the need for some of these A to B sedans posting near or over 300HP and 14 sec or faster times. toyota camry has like 269hp...WHY??? at its curb weight 200 or 225 HP would be more than enough to move it along...and detuned to that level it would get better mileage anyways. Im all for high power sports cars (S2K, GTO, Z06, etc), but mom and pop cars dont need that kinda power...
If they need to de-tune them to meet mileage requirements, then they will. We don't need to limit power output.
S2k, GTO, Z06...what if you want a sporty car, but need 4 doors (and don't say RX8, that's crap)?
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
