Was just wondering if anyone knows if the Monza cat-backs are any good? I know pacesetter headers are decent, but are the exhausts any good?
I'd love to get a Borla for my grand prix, but I just can justify spending $900 on it at this point... But I'd still like a decent exhaust. No fart cans...
well actually on most cars Pacesetter headers are crap. So I have no clue on their exhuast.
05 M6 YJ GTO 1 of 447 12.767@109.93
they seem to make ok stuff from what i hear...just hit them with a coat of high temp paint once a year to keep/slow down rusting
Alright. Would I be better off going to a muffler shop and have an exhaust made? then popping borla muffler on that?
pacesetter headers arent
terrible for grand prix... but if you've got the money, get TOGs. they're the best you can get. you'll pay for it, but you get what you pay for. they go for around $600 in the used section of clubgp.
as for catbacks, first question i would like to ask is why. do you want sound, or performance. if you're just looking for sound, you could probably just sick mufflers on your stock system and sound ok.
http://media.putfile.com/flowmaster-40s-14
that's stock Y pipe, and flowmaster 40's (gets a little raspy since they're kinda old... and it was a cold start and 5* that day). it's a good tone, granted that's got headers and a cam, but you get the idea.
now, stock catbacks are good for around mid 12 second runs (right around 300whp), so if you're not runnin that, it'll be simply for sound, which you can get from just some good mufflers. i personally dont like the way borlas sound on GP's, but they tend to be really raspy on anything you put em on, coupled with the rasp you get out of a 6 cylinder and... well, you get my point. we have a couple of different options. ZZP makes a 3" exhaust system, SLP makes one, and of course you know about the borla and monza systems. but i personally choose to go with custom bent exhaust. they may not look as pretty, but i can get exactly what i want from an exhaust shop (minus catles). i can take a set of mufflers to them, and say "this is what i want. i can go with or without a resonator, i can choose exactly what kind of cat to run, ect. my last quote at an exhaust shop was 200-250, plus the price of a Y pipe and mufflers, even then it's only around $350-$400... which is quite a bit less than one of the pre-bent systems.
so, my vote, ask around town, find out who does mandrel bending (dont do crush bent, grand prix dont have much space for exhaust. best we can do is 3", so we have to make the best of it) and see what they can do as far as prices, time, and if they can do it in the first place. if you dont like what they're sayin, you can always use one of the bolt in kits as back up.
Andy
it's not how fast you go, it's how you get there that counts.
ZZP XP cam, 1.6 rockers, 105# springs, speedbuilt FWI, 3.3" modular pulley, TOG headers,
3" exhaust, flomatched injectors
'97 GTP 14.06@100.6mph pre cam w/ 3.5" pulley, I/E
ive got several friends with the pacesetter catback on their gtp's even with with it on his 3800 se , every one of them likes it , its 3" into dual 2 1/2" , most others are 2 1/2" into dual 2 1/2" , from what ive seen 3" are hard to find
search streetfire and youll find some videos of it
also they way its set up , you can eliminate the flange if you so choose , and go straight into the back of the cat , whether you use 2 1/2" or 3" cats , and if you use their headers for the gtp's it would all be 3" , or use any system that connects to the stock
both are very versatile systems
also TOG is outta business
I think the cheapest stainless system is the older
GMPP set up. I'm pretty sure it's a magnaflow. From what I understand, the shipping can be higher than normal with these guys.
I have never seen the new Pacesetter combo in person. The videos I have seen of it have a good sound. It probably is the best bang for the buck around.
I liked the sound of the SLP exhaust.. personal opinion. They said it'd add 12 HP or something.
[quote=97trd(???™)]also TOG is outta business
yes, TOG is "out of business" but there is a company that purchased the rights to the headers, and is selling TOGs with better quality than ever. sold at ZZPerformance, at least. w-body store probably has them, too.
i only know of one system that uses a 2.5" primary pipe. the ZZP system goes single 3" to dual 2.25", the dynomax system doesnt say what size it is, so it could possibly be 2.5" but it probably splits into dual 2.25". the SLP system uses a 2.5" pipe... and the corsa and borla catbacks... well, they're both over $1K... so im not even goin into that.
by the way, if you do indeed get the pacesetter headers, and they're selling the crappy clamps with them still, you'll need to buy better exhaust clamps.
Andy
it's not how fast you go, it's how you get there that counts.
ZZP XP cam, 1.6 rockers, 105# springs, speedbuilt FWI, 3.3" modular pulley, TOG headers,
3" exhaust, flomatched injectors
'97 GTP 14.06@100.6mph pre cam w/ 3.5" pulley, I/E
Work - I go for performance all the way. And because of that sound comes with it, but I saw someone on here with a quote either on their profile or in their sig that said something to the likes of I would rather drive a race car held together by duct tape than a show car that can't move for @!#$. You get the idea. I say borla because I've never heard anything bad about them. However, I will look around for some sounds clips to see what sounds good. Also, no one around here uses mandrel bending.They all seem to use crush bending.
Craig - Will that GMPP set up work on an 04 grand prix? It says it fits 1997-2003, but I have an 04.
GAM - Know where I can find that SLP exhaust?
you want to run 2 1/2" band clamps at the y-pipe section for the headers , all the locals here are using them
out of all the systems ive heard , the corsa is the best sounding , my friends low 12 sec gtp , people think his car is a viper while its doing a burn out at the track
slp is loud , borla is near stock quiet , magnaflows is a little louder
dynomax i havent heard , or zzp's
Alright, well, never mind about the grand prix. I'm not getting it now, damn it.
But, I am getting a 02 Grand Am 2 door GT. It should last at least a little while anyway...
So, I'm gonna need an exhaust for a grand am...
God I wish I could get that grand prix....
wait and get a grand prix. you'll be angry if you dont.
you can get the SLP exhaust at www.pfyc.com, and i believe www.wbodystore.com and www.3800performance.com both have it, too.
as for your muffler shops not using mandrel bending, tell them they're stupid and should be shot... ok, maybe dont go that far.
97trd, the dynomax systems sound like crap. i dont know what they sound like on other cars, but it's not a pretty sound on a GP. but... nothing really is a good sound on em. haha. and all i've heard about the ZZP catback is one word... "loud". which is fine for me. my flow's are pretty loud. i just wouldnt be cought dead spending over a grand on a catback alone. hell, im mad enough i've got to spend $400. sometimes i wish it was a 5.0L mustang.
Andy
it's not how fast you go, it's how you get there that counts.
ZZP XP cam, 1.6 rockers, 105# springs, speedbuilt FWI, 3.3" modular pulley, TOG headers,
3" exhaust, flomatched injectors
'97 GTP 14.06@100.6mph pre cam w/ 3.5" pulley, I/E
^^Unfortunetly, I can't wait. I have no car now. I drive for dominos. No car=no job. So, I'm stuck with the grand am. But have no fear. As soon as I can, I'll be getting a grand prix, and I'll trade in the grand am towards it. It's just right now I need a car. Badly. I've actually got my mothers car which is a 1995 Ford Escort Wagon, and I hate it so much, there are no words. So I'm getting the grand am as a temp car, maybe do one or two things to it, you know intake, and some kind of exhaust, nothing major, then I'll trade it in towards my grand prix...
Ugh. Life sucks sometimes. Oh well. Things always get better.
WORK wrote:
as for your muffler shops not using mandrel bending, tell them they're stupid and should be shot... ok, maybe dont go that far.
Well most exhuast shops don't want to spend over 20k to get a machine that only a hand full of people will want used because most people don't want to pay the extra $$ for it.
The only exhaust shop that uses one around here is in ATL. Most use typical crush type bending.
Also, does the Grand prix need dual 2.5 inch exhuast. hell that is what most aftermarket GTO exhaust are and we flow one hell of alot more are than the 3800.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Sunday, April 08, 2007 5:55 PM
05 M6 YJ GTO 1 of 447 12.767@109.93
Sappy96 wrote:WORK wrote:
as for your muffler shops not using mandrel bending, tell them they're stupid and should be shot... ok, maybe dont go that far.
Well most exhuast shops don't want to spend over 20k to get a machine that only a hand full of people will want used because most people don't want to pay the extra $$ for it.
The only exhaust shop that uses one around here is in ATL. Most use typical crush type bending.
Also, does the Grand prix need dual 2.5 inch exhuast. hell that is what most aftermarket GTO exhaust are and we flow one hell of alot more are than the 3800.
not neccesarily, dual 2.25" is usually all we really need. single 3" is needed for free flowing, though. single 2.5 isnt qiute big enough. and sappy, you guys dont flow that much more than us. a stock GTP with a 3.8" pulley flows the same ammount of air as a 5.4L N/A car at WOT. now, that's 6lbs of boost on a pretty restrictive setup (less restriction will equal less lbs of boost). now, i run 10lbs, with a free flowing intake, cam, and 1 5/8" primairy headers, with a 3.3" pulley. i dont really feel like doing the math, but i'd say that's flowing probably above the 6L mark for a N/A car. N/A cars can only really pull in as much displacement as they have (there's a little extra due to velocity, but not much), but just because a 3800 has 3.8L of displacement doesnt mean that's what's goin in. and remember, what goes in, must come out.
and i understand about mandrel benders. i just like givin exhaust shops @!#$ for not havin em. we've only got two shops in town that do it. and one's just because he got the bender when he purchased the business.
Andy
it's not how fast you go, it's how you get there that counts.
ZZP XP cam, 1.6 rockers, 105# springs, speedbuilt FWI, 3.3" modular pulley, TOG headers,
3" exhaust, flomatched injectors
'97 GTP 14.06@100.6mph pre cam w/ 3.5" pulley, I/E
the grand prixs go to a dual exhaust at the rear axle , so its not a true dual
Well, I am sure the heads will become more of a choke point than the exhaust once you change the pulley.
05 M6 YJ GTO 1 of 447 12.767@109.93
Sappy96 wrote:Well, I am sure the heads will become more of a choke point than the exhaust once you change the pulley.
bingo. heads are ok, but not great by any means.
and 97trd, you're correct in that it goes to duals after the rear wheels (doesnt really have an "axle
stuipd FWD) but you still have to take flow into account. those duals need to flow at least what the single pipe flows, or else you've got yourself a nice choke point. and duals, though they "add up" to a larger pipe, dont always have the same vollume as a single pipe.
for example
single 3" pipe has 7.07 square inches of flow space, and is 3" in diamiter
but dual 2" pipes only have about 3.14 square inches of flow space per, which is around 6.2" between the pair. as you see, that's less than the single 3", and therefore causes a restriction.
but if you go 2.25" you get 3.97 square inches per, which is almost 8 square inches of flow space between the two. within one square inch of the 3" piping area.
so, go too far one way, you get back pressure. supercharged cars hate backpreasure. too far the other way, you get a bit of a low pressure area, which can cause a vacume and (very very extreme situation) screw up some valves. nice little ballance you've gotta pull.
by the way, dont even get me started on mandrel vs. crush bent
Andy
it's not how fast you go, it's how you get there that counts.
ZZP XP cam, 1.6 rockers, 105# springs, speedbuilt FWI, 3.3" modular pulley, TOG headers,
3" exhaust, flomatched injectors
'97 GTP 14.06@100.6mph pre cam w/ 3.5" pulley, I/E
On that Grand Am you could just get a performance muffler with a single in dual out. For example you could get one from meant for a F-body. That's what I'm going to do to mine.
pacesetter also sells a 99-04 or 05 grand am kit , fits all the motors , its 2 1/2" into the muffler and dual 2 1/4" out
