Well guys it looks like im getting me a new project car, a 2002 Grand prix GT 3800 N/A, the dealership nextdoor to my work
has that and a 200ish saturn sedan, he said i can have both for 400 bucks,The GP has a whole engine just not in the engine compartment, the whole top end is in the trunk, LOL but nothing i cant handle . pull the block and build me up a S/C 3800.
So i know some of you have had experience with the Grand prix, and i could use some inside info,
Oh and the body and interior are in GREAT shape just a minor dent on the drivers side fender, and the title is clean.
oh and the saturn im gonna part out on ebay or sell it for scrap, cause it has no engine or trans.
Dump a Northstar into the Saturn.
And now for something completely different... Click the Minister.
Gam, you know im that much of a N* whore, but there is no way it would fit, hell it barley fits in my auroras engine compartment.
i would shoehorn one in the GP though
There's a company (in Edmonton AB as I remember) that stuffed a Northstar into a Golf... so, it can be done
And now for something completely different... Click the Minister.
for a 3800 s/c engine, you'll need pistons, heads, intake manifold, injectors, fuel rails, blower, PCM, and wiring harness. and im probably forgetting somet things, but that's the BIG stuff. small stuff like belt tensioners, TB, ect. you'll come across on the way
now, IMO the better way to go with what you have would be turbo. put the L36 back together and it's 9.5:1 compression will enjoy a couple lbs. if you really want it nice, put some L67 pistons in (8.5:1 CR), L67 heads, and LIM, and get an UIM fabricated so you can put the TB on the end of that and use that as an intake. intercool it and it'll take 20lbs and be a happy boy. but at that you'll need supporting mods like injectors, tuning, a cam would be a good idea, the turbo kit, P&P heads would give you the best results.
just remember, there are three ways to go
fast
cheap
reliable
pick two
GP's arent cheap by any means, so be prepaired to pay if you want a fast one... but it's worth it to see the looks on the other drivers faces
Andy
it's not how fast you go, it's how you get there that counts.
ZZP XP cam, 1.6 rockers, 105# springs, speedbuilt FWI, 3.3" modular pulley, TOG headers,
3" exhaust, flomatched injectors
'97 GTP 14.06@100.6mph pre cam w/ 3.5" pulley, I/E
x2 on the turbo. As long as you've got her riped apart...do it right.
And dont forget about the trany.
Lash wrote:
And dont forget about the trany.
and i'll x2 you on that one.
stock 4t65e trannies that came in the N/A cars are crap. not woth much over 250lb/ft of torque. heck, the 4t65e-hd's that come in GTP's are only rated at 280, which if you notice is the STOCK power rating. you'll need a built tranny (that' actually the step im on now). you really probably dont want to know what it's gonna cost you tough. my goals for this car in the next two years is 11's... and i'll be layin down over $3K on a tranny for it.
Andy
it's not how fast you go, it's how you get there that counts.
ZZP XP cam, 1.6 rockers, 105# springs, speedbuilt FWI, 3.3" modular pulley, TOG headers,
3" exhaust, flomatched injectors
'97 GTP 14.06@100.6mph pre cam w/ 3.5" pulley, I/E
Well my plan was to pull the engine and the trans, cause the engine has bees siting w/o a top end for idk and the block/bore and the tops of the pistons are rusty.
Yea boost sounds like a good plan, im not gonna rush this cause i have the rora as a DD and make the GP a monster.
Has there been any 5-speed swaps in a Prix. cause if im gonna put power down im going 5-speed.
Seriously...I'd probably stay wth a built auto and a nice stall convert.
Ty (teh Otaku) wrote:Well my plan was to pull the engine and the trans, cause the engine has bees siting w/o a top end for idk and the block/bore and the tops of the pistons are rusty.
Yea boost sounds like a good plan, im not gonna rush this cause i have the rora as a DD and make the GP a monster.
Has there been any 5-speed swaps in a Prix. cause if im gonna put power down im going 5-speed.
first, yes, i'd agree with pulling the engine, however, dont try to bore a 3800 a lot to gain cubes. at max you can only bore them .030 safely, and it'll gain you jack crap in the world of power.
boost is always good. as they say, the replacement for displacement is boost.
no. there has not been a successful 3800 s/c 5 or 6 speed mating. first, nothing bolts up. second, nothing has the hard parts inside to hold up to the power. third, it's a FWD car with way more torque than it needs. you'll burn em up. stick to auto. especially if you even consider ging turbo. IMO turbo cars should never be made manual. if they're auto, leave em that way. the only reason to leave it a manual is if it were one before... and then you should think about going auto.
lash, i agree (if you couldnt figure that out from above) however, im not as big of a fan as everyone else is about stall converters. everyone thingks "man, the higher stall my converter is, the more power i'll put down!". not true. stall depends on your setup. for turbo cars, yes, high stalls are wonderful. around 3K. it lets you spool up the turbo and get into the power band a lot faster since turbo's generally have a higher power range. with a supercharger, however, especially roots style, the power band is much lower, and if you try to launch at anywhere above 2K you're gonna go up in smoke. 2500 stall is really all you need for a supercharged setup. maybe 2700. but the power band starts much lower in a s/c car, and the torque maxes around 2500-3000.
Andy
it's not how fast you go, it's how you get there that counts.
ZZP XP cam, 1.6 rockers, 105# springs, speedbuilt FWI, 3.3" modular pulley, TOG headers,
3" exhaust, flomatched injectors
'97 GTP 14.06@100.6mph pre cam w/ 3.5" pulley, I/E
Work, thanks for all the info, it really helps, im gonna keep it auto and Turbo.
While i have the engine out im gonna use my hook-ups at school to get the block blueprinted, get the crank knife edged and the the rotating assembly balanced. and get the heads cleaned up and do a P&P.
i know alot of people using the n/a bottom end in stock form with a s/c top end
the trans you need the diff , and input shaft , and a better chain , the good news is the n/a got the 3.29 final
WORK wrote:
lash, i agree (if you couldnt figure that out from above) however, im not as big of a fan as everyone else is about stall converters. everyone thingks "man, the higher stall my converter is, the more power i'll put down!". not true. stall depends on your setup. for turbo cars, yes, high stalls are wonderful. around 3K. it lets you spool up the turbo and get into the power band a lot faster since turbo's generally have a higher power range. with a supercharger, however, especially roots style, the power band is much lower, and if you try to launch at anywhere above 2K you're gonna go up in smoke. 2500 stall is really all you need for a supercharged setup. maybe 2700. but the power band starts much lower in a s/c car, and the torque maxes around 2500-3000.
I agree...which is why I never said what specific rpm stall to get...plus I was assuming it was going to be for a turbo application.
Each set-up is different...and needs to be built accordingly. But if he is going turbo...it would be wise....but not necessary.
honestly, if you're planning on making the car a beast, go to ZZpeformance and get their built tranny. they'll do the input shaft and differential, and you can upgrade the chain there. yes, the N/A 4t65e non HD trannies come with a 3.29 final drive gearing. however, it's very weak and if you're plannin on putting power through it you'll want to swap to a single chain deal. i believe ZZP has a 7/8" single chain, which is very strong. there are three different single chain types. 11/16 (i think that's the size) but the tend to break under high power. the 7/8", they tend to stretch under high power. and the GM 1" chain that i dont believe anyone has broken yet. depending on your plans for the car (1/4 mile time) would depend on the gearing. there are three different gearings. 2.93, which is stock GTP. 3.29, which is stock N/A gearing. and 3.69, which is usually used for the fast N/A cars, but isnt stock on anything.
yes, quite a few people use the l36 bottom ends. their internals are the same, minus the pistons, so they'll put up with the same power outage. but the higher compression pistons make it easier to make big power (if you want it quick and do it right). however, done right you can make MORE power on a lower compression bottom end with boost.
and lash, i know that's not what you said. i was just going more in depth. so far i've noticed you and i agree as far as grand prix are concerned, so dont worry about me bustin your chops over anything
Andy
it's not how fast you go, it's how you get there that counts.
ZZP XP cam, 1.6 rockers, 105# springs, speedbuilt FWI, 3.3" modular pulley, TOG headers,
3" exhaust, flomatched injectors
'97 GTP 14.06@100.6mph pre cam w/ 3.5" pulley, I/E
