Automaker: Engines failing vacuum test must be replaced
MONTEREY, Calif. -- After suffering a black eye from disclosing that it won't count RX-8 owners' opinions in its internal customer-satisfaction scores, Mazda says it may have to replace the engines in many of its flagship sports cars.
The voluntary recall of all 2004 and 2005 vehicles, and some 2006s, is expected to be announced this week or next. It involves damage to the catalyst resulting from oil leaks in the RX-8's rotary engine.
Any engine that does not pass a vacuum test must be replaced, said Robert Davis, head of product development and quality at Mazda North American Operations.
Engines prone to failing the test are mostly in hot climates and use synthetic oils.
Mazda also will check each RX-8's battery and starter, which tend to fail in cold climates.
"We're going to give these cars the white-glove treatment," Davis said. "We would rather replace the engine than have the dealer crack them open."
Davis would not disclose the projected failure rate of the engines or the cost to replace them.
Mazda has a remanufacturing center in North Carolina that will rebuild faulty engines and return them to service.
The recall comes after a video Webcast by two dealers who attended the July 11-13 National Dealer Advisory Council meetings in Newport Beach, Calif., was leaked on the Internet.
In the video, dealers said problems with the RX-8 were unfairly lowering Mazda customer-satisfaction scores.
Mazda informed the dealers that RX-8 owners would continue to be surveyed, but that the responses would not factor into dealer
customer-satisfaction scores. See story here
Mazda has issued service bulletins on such trouble spots as squeaky
brakes and engine flooding.
whole crap.... thats a swift kick in the nuts hahahhaha
Quote:
it won't count RX-8 owners' opinions in its internal customer-satisfaction scores
that right there makes absolutley no sence.
when the renisis motor came out diddn't it get all kinds of publicity and awards and everyone thought it was the next best thing? and from the moment they put them on the market diddn't they make less than factory rated hp and mazda had to recall them once already?
imo, until they come up with some new spaceage material to use for the rotor seals that can take power, and high milage, I would avoid that motor like the plauge.
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when you beat someone in a civic people wine and make excuses
when you beat someone in a cavalier they pull over and check under thier hoods
sent that to my buddy who has a RX-8
How many steps to heaven, Doc?
...Ah, metaphysics.
Yeah, sad thing is that it took a video being leaked to do something.
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Thats sad to here. I love the idea of a company trying to use radical design to advance the automobile. But maybe Mazda should wait a bit before the release such a problematic engine. I wonder if Mazda could take the rotary engine out for a while and replace it with a turbo 4 or an inline 6 or sumthin like that until they think they have every problem out of that engine.
Mazdas had like what, atleast 20 years to get the rotary engine right? Theres a reason the rotary engine never became popular and only ended up in one car that I know of, that being the RX.
That car is more disappointing IMO, than anything GM ever botched.
It was so hyped and so loved by the automotive press....and then it came out..... with no power, and piss poor reliability.
I wrote this post a long time ago, a real long time ago, back in 94.
Emor8t wrote:
It was so hyped and so loved by the automotive press....and then it came out..... with no power, and piss poor reliability.
Mazda has never been known for big power and cars that are great in drag racing etc.. Mazda has always been about the top end power, the handeling which is insane. Have you ever driven a Mazda? Specially an RX-8? They handle awesome and the RX-8 is freakin unbelivable in the corners. It handles like its on rails. When messing around in a safe spot i've always pushed my cars past the limit just to see where its at. The RX-8 is different. I'm scared to push that thing to the limits in the corners. Its not that heavy of a car. So the automatic making 197hp isn't too bad. The manual is 238 I believe (could be wrong but i'm close) really isn't bad.
As for reliability, go on the boards and actually read the complaints people are having. Its no different then any other cars. The only difference between mazda and any other car in the reliablity department is that Mazda offers a great warranty to keep up with the cars. I'm not building mazda up or putting down GM or any other car company. Its just a simple fact that every other car manufacterer has had its little problems and even its big problems such as this.
Quote:
In the video, dealers said problems with the RX-8 were unfairly lowering Mazda customer-satisfaction scores.
a product that has been plagued with problems since the beginning UNFAIRLY lowers customer satisfaction?
I think its pretty fair for people to be pissed when they buy a sports car that is a peice of crap
NUTCASE . wrote:diddn't...mazda had to recall them once already?
Mazda offered a voluntary buy back.
Now haveing been able to actually wind an RX-8 up above the 5K mark. the car is excellent in every aspect. Even at the limits if you know how to drive RWD cars it is easy to bring back in check with little effort.
The problem and will always be that a renesis engine that isn't run often WILL kill itself because it scrapes the walls as soon as it starts running if there isn't any oil in the combustion chamber.
-Chris
Rabbit(AKA RedAssassin) wrote:Emor8t wrote:
It was so hyped and so loved by the automotive press....and then it came out..... with no power, and piss poor reliability.
Mazda has never been known for big power and cars that are great in drag racing etc.. Mazda has always been about the top end power, the handeling which is insane. Have you ever driven a Mazda? Specially an RX-8? They handle awesome and the RX-8 is freakin unbelivable in the corners. It handles like its on rails. When messing around in a safe spot i've always pushed my cars past the limit just to see where its at. The RX-8 is different. I'm scared to push that thing to the limits in the corners. Its not that heavy of a car. So the automatic making 197hp isn't too bad. The manual is 238 I believe (could be wrong but i'm close) really isn't bad.
As for reliability, go on the boards and actually read the complaints people are having. Its no different then any other cars. The only difference between mazda and any other car in the reliablity department is that Mazda offers a great warranty to keep up with the cars. I'm not building mazda up or putting down GM or any other car company. Its just a simple fact that every other car manufacterer has had its little problems and even its big problems such as this.
I don't doubt it handles well. My dad has a 6, and I LOVE that car, its weak on the power (its the 4 banger). But for the price he got it for, its be hard to be (fully loaded, except nav, for under 20K, new) The handling makes that car, as well as I am sure the RX8 does.
And Mazda does do big power, the Speed6=teh sex, and also I think all I have to say is 787B. and the Rx-7, id love to have one of those.
But the price for comparable alternative, its still slow, wether twisties or straight. All I can say is for the same price new, I'm still sticking with my favorite "reasonably" priced car, the GTO. If I got a REX, and LS2 would be packed in there (if it works), and IIRC the engines are similar in weight.
I wrote this post a long time ago, a real long time ago, back in 94.
Mazda did do big power maybe, not so much anymore. And I tried to test drive an rx-8 and the salesman assured me that the service department was one of the best. Till I try to start it and nothing happens. Apparently they didn't do a proper charge during the PDI. So, I never got to drive one.
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Emor8t wrote:That car is more disappointing IMO, than anything GM ever botched.
It was so hyped and so loved by the automotive press....and then it came out..... with no power, and piss poor reliability.
Well, the RX-7 was a lot better. Wasn't the twin-turbo RX7 around 320hp? They should've used that as more of a base, lol. I've never been all that much into the RX-8. The frotn end just looks ugly to me, but the rest is pretty cool.
The Renesis N/A makes more power stock than the FC3S TurboII's ever did and just a little less than the horribly unreliable 13B-REW. The engine itself (physically) is the same dimensions, but is just made to todays specs (weight, and materials wise). Only small changes were made in the overall design of the engine.
Rabbit(AKA RedAssassin) wrote:As for reliability, go on the boards and actually read the complaints people are having. Its no different then any other cars. The only difference between mazda and any other car in the reliablity department is that Mazda offers a great warranty to keep up with the cars. I'm not building mazda up or putting down GM or any other car company. Its just a simple fact that every other car manufacterer has had its little problems and even its big problems such as this.
Not to offend, but I don't regularly see any other vehicles in the 1-3 year old range needing the engines replaced. Just because Mazda has a better warranty, doesn't mean that they are more reliable.
It's funny how people jump on the "It's ok, because it's an import" bandwagon, whereas if the same situation were to happen to, say, Ford or GM, people would be strapping them to a pole and castrating them with a rusty cheese slicer. Take for instance, the Chevy Vega, and that all to infamous 2.3 4 cylinder engine. People STILL talk about the heap that that thing was, and have a bad opinion of GM 30 years later because of it. Toyota had a problem a few years ago with oil sludging up in their engines because of unsatisfactory oil drainback, leading to overheating and cooking of the oil. Toyota's solution??? They blamed it on the consumer, citing their maintenece techniques. The few people who didn't bend over and take it up the backside eventually got new engines. As far as I know, Toyota still hasn't officially taken blame for their defecive design.
Paul wrote:The engine itself (physically) is the same dimensions, but is just made to todays specs (weight, and materials wise). Only small changes were made in the overall design of the engine.
Apparently not enough changes were made. Mazda has had the EXACT same problem with every incarnation of it's rotary engine since day one. The apex seals like to self destruct all too willingly.
People just need to face facts. The rotary, allthough a good design with enormous power potential, just hasn't ever been a very reliable engine. Can it be improved??? Probably. But the technology or engineering just isn't quite there yet.
Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 3rd quickest Ecotec on the .org - 10.949 @ 131.50 MPH!!!
DaFlyinSkwirl (PJ) wrote:Quote:
In the video, dealers said problems with the RX-8 were unfairly lowering Mazda customer-satisfaction scores.
a product that has been plagued with problems since the beginning UNFAIRLY lowers customer satisfaction?
I think its pretty fair for people to be pissed when they buy a sports car that is a peice of crap
Unfairly lower the csi of the dealership? No, it shouldn't. Dealerships have several benifits depending on their csi scores. So mazada is telling their dealers it won't affect your csi score (this particular problem).
^^^
But its not a problem w/ the car but the service. Any service on any rx-8 does not get a score that counts.
Also, I doubt the seals have changed since mazda got the motor to work. Alot of companies tried to use the wanked but they all had premature seal wear. Mazda stumbled upon the idea of using graphite for the seals which held out longer than anything else anyone has tried. Still not the best seal tho, as you can see.
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People, if you're going to knock something, at least get your @!#$ straight.
The seals aren't graphite. It's carbon carbon (pyrographite) with aluminum sintering. A little different, straight graphite is the stuff in your pencil. As for Borsty, explain the countless hordes of 13Bs that are up in the 100K to 200K range.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, August 24, 2006 6:23 AM
The mazda 6 speed is very dissapointing, for the 28K price your better off going subaru Legacy GT or STI. The car just feels like a front wheel drive vehicle with uber soft suspension. My buddy was nailing the bump stops on the autocross course at Zoom Zoom Live this year.
-Chris
Paul wrote:People, if you're going to knock something, at least get your @!#$ straight.
The seals aren't graphite. It's carbon carbon (pyrographite) with aluminum sintering. A little different, straight graphite is the stuff in your pencil. As for Borsty, explain the countless hordes of 13Bs that are up in the 100K to 200K range.
Did I knock it? No, and pyrographite is a type of graphite, thank you.
Its a good design but I think we need better materials to use as a seal.
IamRascal wrote:The mazda 6 speed is very dissapointing, for the 28K price your better off going subaru Legacy GT or STI. The car just feels like a front wheel drive vehicle with uber soft suspension. My buddy was nailing the bump stops on the autocross course at Zoom Zoom Live this year.
Good luck getting an STI for under 32k new.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Thursday, August 24, 2006 2:15 PM
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Paul: I'm not disputing what you're saying, but I seem to remember a bunch of RX-7 owners getting dash overlays that replaced the "Check Coolant" light to "Replace Engine."
Either way, It's a great design, but if it truly was all that and a bag of potato chips, Rotaries would be everywhere... Ipso facto, they're only available in one chassis from one manufacturer. On top of that, if they were as universally and incredibly reliable as you stated, why is there a kit that offers LSx Swaps into the 3rd Gen RX-7 Chassis?
I'm not trying to spark an e-fight (iFight?) here, just asking a serious question. I like the idea of Rotaries, but if after over 25 years of development they still can't get the engine to the same reliability as the other 98% of piston driven engines, what's the point of keeping it going?
And now for something completely different... Click the Minister.
Mazda also just lowered its powertrain warranties on their cars because they were having numerous problems with RX-8s, not just engine-related.
I was happy when I heard my car ran 10s. Then I found out that was 0-60.
GAM, remember, I said 13B, not 13B-REW.
Even I wouldn't agrue with the unreliability of that thing.
Sounds like the V-8 SHO, sadly the SHO saga still surges on with ford denying the problem, and more and more people Suing the piss out of them. Confusing part is ford owns Masda, and masda is having a recall for a oil leak while ford is too pussy to have a recall on a car with its motor blowing up... *V-8 SHO Cam failure, Cam Sproket welds break resulting in catastropic head damage because they weren't welded correctly in ANY of them produced.
