im thinking about getting a 98 GTP
i know ZZ performance makes IC for the GTPs but i heard that making your own custom-made cooling mist(50/50 alky/water) would help save alot of money. also if doing the alky/water injection would it be a good idea to lower the pulley from the stock s/c pulley? if so, hat size should it be limited to lower? i know i would have to redo the exhaust setup-ie take out the bend piping from just after the cat, replace the stock cat with a hi-flo, and going with at least a 2.5inch from after the cat to the muffler. also i'd put in a WAI. what else would i need to do b4 i'd go and lower the stock charger pulley? thanks in advance

first things first yes get rid of the u-bend after the cat. a smaller pulley is next, you can go 3.5 completely stock
3.4 stock w/t intake (u bend replacement would be good to)
3.25 intake cat back, down pipe, i'd say computer to be safe and to help with the kr.
to go any smaller you are going to want a cam and head work, and an intercooler.

i have a 2001 gtp with a u-bend and a 3.5 pulley

i've only had this car for 1 1/2 weeks so there is plenty more to come.

GET A TRANY COOLER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

www.w-body.com


1971 camaro 427 --- here!

Stock... and loving every minute of it.

first, i'd suggest something that can read knock... such as the aeroforce gauge. alot of people that put smaller pulley's on their gtp's never bother seeing if they are getting knock... knock is bad

a friend of mine has a gtp with ported manifolds, 3" downpipe, 2.5" downpipe back exhaust, 1.8" rockers, dhp power tuner, cold air intake, and a few other things and is just now ready to step down to a smaller pulley. to put it in perspective, he ran 14.38 with 2-3 degrees of kr (knock retard)... now with the dhp, he's getting no knock and should be in the 13's without touching the pulley.

i dont think i'd be competnet enough to install the rockers or do the ported manifold(possibly buy one at some point), and will eventually get the DHP tuner. has anyone done the coolin mist mod yet on the gtps, if possible or is it even worthwhile to go with or should it wait til i drop below the 3.4inch pulley(assuming i already did the 3" downpipe, repalce the cat with a hi-flo one, replaced the u-bend with a straight 2.5" piping all the way to the muffler-ends?

Quote:

im thinking about getting a 98 GTP
i know ZZ performance makes IC for the GTPs but i heard that making your own custom-made cooling mist(50/50 alky/water) would help save alot of money. also if doing the alky/water injection would it be a good idea to lower the pulley from the stock s/c pulley? if so, hat size should it be limited to lower? i know i would have to redo the exhaust setup-ie take out the bend piping from just after the cat, replace the stock cat with a hi-flo, and going with at least a 2.5inch from after the cat to the muffler. also i'd put in a WAI. what else would i need to do b4 i'd go and lower the stock charger pulley? thanks in advance

you're thinkin too far ahead. intake, exhaust, PCM, and a 3.5" pulley are all you should be thinking right now. but first go to www.clubgp.com and search for beginning mods.

LSWHAT.........VTECWHO....... wrote:first things first yes get rid of the u-bend after the cat. a smaller pulley is next, you can go 3.5 completely stock
3.4 stock w/t intake (u bend replacement would be good to)
3.25 intake cat back, down pipe, i'd say computer to be safe and to help with the kr.
to go any smaller you are going to want a cam and head work, and an intercooler.

i have a 2001 gtp with a u-bend and a 3.5 pulley

i've only had this car for 1 1/2 weeks so there is plenty more to come.

GET A TRANY COOLER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ok, here's my response to this

Quote:

first things first yes get rid of the u-bend after the cat. a smaller pulley is next, you can go 3.5 completely stock

yes, no
yes, it is a good idea to get rid of the u-bend first. it is the most restrictive part of the stock exhaust. IIRC followed by the downpipe, cat, resonator, Y, and mufflers, in that order.
however!
just removing the U-bend is not enough to run a 3.5" pulley. the stock intake, especially on '97's, but later models as well, is very restrictive. an intake is a MUST to run a smaller pulley. common itakes are the wizair CAI, the Thrasher CAI, the speedbuilt FWI, or a home made FWI or CAI.

Quote:

3.4 stock w/t intake (u bend replacement would be good to)

no
3.4" pulley is a little more than a 3.5, usually 1-3lbs of boost more. more boost = more supporting mods. usually, intake, exhaust, and a computer tune. this can be done customly by DHP, and bought on many websites, or you can get a DHPower tuner, which allows you to change parts of your PCM programing by yourself.

Quote:

3.25 intake cat back, down pipe, i'd say computer to be safe and to help with the kr.

good lord no
man, that's not even funny
3.25 pulleys are quite a bit more extreme than the 3.5's or 3.4's. on a stock setup, they'll usually produce upwards of 13lbs of boost, at extremely hot temperatures. in order to run a 3.25 pulley, you'll at least need headers or PEM's, intake, full exhaust, and most of the time rockers or a cam. 3.25's are big boy country. when i get my cam in and PEM's on, im not even dropping to a 3.25 yet, im sticking with a 3.3, just to be safe. dont want mr. knock comin around.

Quote:

to go any smaller you are going to want a cam and head work, and an intercooler.

yes, this i cant argue with. usually anything below a 3.25 pulley requires an intercooler, and sometimes 3.25's do. it all depends on the car. i already covered the cam. as for head work, this is usually required (i think) below 3.00" pulleys.

Quote:

i have a 2001 gtp with a u-bend and a 3.5 pulley

you should know better then

Quote:

i've only had this car for 1 1/2 weeks so there is plenty more to come.

you havent had it long enough

Quote:

GET A TRANY COOLER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/

tranny coolers arent neccesary. the GTP tranny is well built to handle heat. it's the stress of the engine that does them out. they're only rated at 280 lb/ft or torque, which is the stock output, and is easily raised.

and lastly, SEARCH. this has been talked about at least twice in the past month.

sorry for the long post, guys, but you knew it was coming.




Andy

it's not how fast you go, it's how you get there that counts.
ZZP XP cam, 1.6 rockers, 105# springs, speedbuilt FWI, 3.3" modular pulley, TOG headers,
3" exhaust, flomatched injectors
'97 GTP 14.06@100.6mph pre cam w/ 3.5" pulley, I/E

whoops, forgot this.
helpful links
clubGP
ZZPerformance
w-body storeThrasher
3800 Performance

eh, that's all i can think of off the top of my head. i'll post (yes, again) when i think of more


Andy

it's not how fast you go, it's how you get there that counts.
ZZP XP cam, 1.6 rockers, 105# springs, speedbuilt FWI, 3.3" modular pulley, TOG headers,
3" exhaust, flomatched injectors
'97 GTP 14.06@100.6mph pre cam w/ 3.5" pulley, I/E

WORk is right. Don't get too quick to start dropping pulley sizes without supporting mods. You'll save yourself a lot of time by learning as much as possible first. Enjoy the car. Good luck!!



1998 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
1994 Chevrolet Blazer Tahoe LT
1994 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera S
1994 Pontiac Sunbird SE

thanks guys and thank you work for the insight, but what does IIRC stand for?

IIRC is "if i recall correctly". i just wanst sure if that was the exact order.

anyway, back to the main point of your thread, GTP's are wonderful cars. pleanty of space inside, excellent reliability, and good get up and go with a decent aftermarket backing. but if you're looking for a "fast 'n cheap" car, it's not what you're looking for. no, im not sayin it's incredibly expensive, but it sure as hell isnt cheap. the one thing i want to emphasise more than anything is that before you do anything to the car, research it. learn about every aspect of what you're doing. when built correctly, these cars can be 11 second daily drivers. but if you hurry into things, it can easily blow up. but they are wonderful cars. mine, for a litle over $200, runs 14.06. and after all of my new stuff goes in i should be at low 13's. any more questions, feel free to ask.




Andy

it's not how fast you go, it's how you get there that counts.
ZZP XP cam, 1.6 rockers, 105# springs, speedbuilt FWI, 3.3" modular pulley, TOG headers,
3" exhaust, flomatched injectors
'97 GTP 14.06@100.6mph pre cam w/ 3.5" pulley, I/E

WORK is my hero. Roommate has a 98GTP. His STUPID ASS is totally stock except for an intake he made out of **PVC PIPE** w/cheap-o filter and MSD Coils+Wires. He blew his engine up by sticking on a 3.3" pulley w/just those mods. To this day his retarded monkey-ass swears up and down that the pulley + him stomping the gas right after pulley install before he even got out of the driveway didn't cause it to blow.

Of course, that's coming from a guy who thinks the knock the 2nd Gen 3800 motors are notorious for ***is a good thing*** because "it just means that it's REALLY powerful". LOL he broke down eighth-mile down the road, basically destroyed the motor, walked back home, and said "Can I use your code-reader real quick?". He didn't think it was funny when I started laughing...

Asshat...

LD9 Fury, you wouldnt believe how many people do that. there's a guy in my local car club (a v8 guy with a GTP as a daily) runnin a 3.25" pulley with intake, exhaust, and a computer tune. i can hear the things not runnin right, but he wont listen to me. it's a common misconception that you can just pop a smaller pulley on a car with a supercharger and be good to go. yes, Cobra engines, and some other stock supercharged cars, work that way to an extent... but the Cobra engines also are stock intercooled with DOHC, forged internals, high flowing exhaust, ect. they are made for boost. pure and simple. the 3800 series II L67 is simply an engine that has been modified with lower compression and higher flowing heads to accomidate boost. yeah, there are a few other changes, but all in all, it's still a 3.8.
by the way, LD9 Fury, give him a chuckle for me, too.
anyway, i wanted to jump on the subject of scanners really quick, too. they are your best friend with these cars, because Knock Retard (KR) plays such an important role. common scanners are the DHPower tuner, which as i said above also makes custom PCM changes, the Autotap is also good from waht i've heard, and i personally use the LS1M, a PDA based program. if you do buy a GTP, and start modding, this is a neccesity.
the cooling mist you're talking about is usually just called water alcohol or alky injection. it injects a small mist of alcohol/water mix into the airstream to cool it off. though it has been used on many cars, i dont recall any of them reporting significant gains such as with an intercooler. alky kits are harder to tune than intercoolers, and take a lot more expertise to use. and, as i said, the gains arent as significant. though as people start getting their setups tuned, the numbers are coming in decent.
if i were you, i wouldnt worry about intake charge cooling until you get the 3.4 running well. then you can start exploring cooling options. alky is usually around $300 for a kit, i believe, and intercoolers start at around $500 for the short stack intercooler from ZZP.
and lastly, the stock exhaust is very well flowing, minus the dowpipe and u-bend. the stock setup from the Y back is good for mid 12's, so if you do anything with that, it will be for sound, not speed.
sorry this was so long, and sorry it took me a while to get back on some'a that stuff. that post was before my first one and apperantly i didnt feel like reading the whole thing yet. anyway, again. any more questions, feel free.


Andy

it's not how fast you go, it's how you get there that counts.
ZZP XP cam, 1.6 rockers, 105# springs, speedbuilt FWI, 3.3" modular pulley, TOG headers,
3" exhaust, flomatched injectors
'97 GTP 14.06@100.6mph pre cam w/ 3.5" pulley, I/E

nah its kewl, and i do thank you work for the good amount of info. i was thinking ahead about the exhaust setup. seeing how the stock set up is already a good flowing for the exhaust gases. i know removal of the u-bend was a must, but i wasnt sure on the downpipe and what to do with it, whether buy an aftermarket or have a custom exhaust shop make one for me? secondly i am thinking about the replacement brakes, rotors, and calipers. can i still reuse the front stock calipers if i go ahead and increase the rotors to 12 inches?

with the downpipe you have four options. the RT dowpipe is a good flowing dowpipe, but it doesnt have a flex point in it, so it's got a bad habbit of breaking the seal at the manifolds. the next option is the JimmyC downpipe. this is what i have. as far as i can tell, it's a wonderful setup. flex in the middle, seals great, and flows just as well. next is the Wbodystore's dowpipe. from what i've seen, it's very very similar to the JimmyC dowpipe. might wanna ask about it on ClubGP, though. lastly is the option of getting one custome made. now, this may be the cheapest way, but good luck finding a shop that will do it. i had a hard time finding a shop that would put mine in, let alone make one. if you can find one, more power to ya.
as for brakes, i really dont know about that. i think there's a conversion to F-body front and rear brakes, but i really dont konw. i'll see if i can find out.



Andy

it's not how fast you go, it's how you get there that counts.
ZZP XP cam, 1.6 rockers, 105# springs, speedbuilt FWI, 3.3" modular pulley, TOG headers,
3" exhaust, flomatched injectors
'97 GTP 14.06@100.6mph pre cam w/ 3.5" pulley, I/E

I <3 WORK

http://www.paceparts.com/search.asp?7=w-car&1=Go

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm?specials=1&&curpage=1&startrow=1

those should be the sites for the big brake conversion.



Andy

it's not how fast you go, it's how you get there that counts.
ZZP XP cam, 1.6 rockers, 105# springs, speedbuilt FWI, 3.3" modular pulley, TOG headers,
3" exhaust, flomatched injectors
'97 GTP 14.06@100.6mph pre cam w/ 3.5" pulley, I/E