wheres the front end of that @!#$.... the hood is tiny love to be in a accident with that
1998 Cavalier
1995 Trans Am
1984 Camaro Z28
Phantoms wrote:wheres the front end of that @!#$.... the hood is tiny love to be in a accident with that
Actually, the ACE body structure is quite amazing to see in action...
They showed us one in a front end collision for a CSX promo...
that one pictued above is sweeeeet. I've seen them in person too, small yes. but very cool.
"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net
Joe Schulte (JoeDM) wrote:
DEFINITELY a step up from those wagon ones....
First of all, I'd like to thank wesmanw02 for being such a Cobalt-nut-sucking tool.
Secondly, I'd like to thank Travis Kearny for being so entertaining.
I <3 falnfenix, JimmyZ, Borsty, NJHK, and all the other intelligent people on JBO
Oh yes, and here are some stats regarding fuel economy...
Vehicle Distance travelled
(kilometres) Fuel Consumption
L/100 km (mpg) NRCan Highway Rating
L/100 km (mpg)
Honda Civic 1022 4.9 (58) 5.7 (50)
Toyota Corolla 911 5.5 (51) 5.3 (53)
Ford Focus 786 6.4 (44) 6.8 (42)
Kia Spectra 786 6.4 (44) 6.8 (42)
Nissan Sentra 780 6.4 (44) 6.2 (46)
Chevrolet Cobalt 771 6.5 (43) 6.6 (43)
Mazda3 755 6.6 (43) 6.2 (46)
Volkswagen Golf 744 6.7 (42) 7.1 (40)
Saturn Ion 711 7.0 (40) n/a
Suzuki Aerio 636 7.9 (36) 7.0 (40)
Link:
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/pw/50-litre.htm
LS1Tech |
F-Body.com |
Eastern F-Body Association |
Toronto F-Body Club
I think there both good cars.....the cobalt is the better performer, you can't deny that
and the civic is gonna have better build quality, you can't deny that
so it's all about who's buying it....personally id take the cobalt ss s/c over it anyday
reliability isn't really an issue with domestics anymore... the ecotec is a strong motor that has proven itself in a variety of different applications for over 4 years now. it basically boils down to a car will only be as reliable as you want it to be. if you take care of your car and do the proper maintenance, any gm/dodge/ford/etc will hold up just as well as any nissan/honda/etc...
after driving an ss/sc, i have to say that i do like the cobalt. it's definetely a step in the right direction for gm in the small car segment. it's a much nicer car than the cavalier it replaced and the build quality is alot better than it's predecessor.
i have yet to see a new civic in person so i can't really comment on them...
i will say though that a few years back, i went to a honda dealer with a friend to see what they had on the lot and the salesman's pitch was... "it'll last longer than a domestic because it's an import..." i wonder how many cars they sell to people that don't have any car knowledge using that kind of line.
bottom line... preventative maintenance is gonna be the determining factor of how long a car lasts... the whole import vs. domestic reliability is really an issue of the past...
strat81 wrote:reliability isn't really an issue with domestics anymore...
If this was true don't you think the resale values on domestics would be better?(Excluding Corvettes, Vipers, Etc)
I did all maintanence on my 02 Z24, but still had a list of problems.....one being a oil leak @ 6,000miles! Not saying this happens to all domestics because the 99 Dakota I owned never had one problem, but the resale value on both blew!
if people are in a mindset that an import will last forever, then dealers can charge more and the people will pay the price because they "know" that it'll go x amount of miles. demand is what drives the resale value...
think about it... if i was trying to sell you used car and told you that it would go 200,000 miles easily, would you be willing to pay top dollar?
my 02 has gone 64k miles with not one problem... even driving it hard from time to time.
your lucky...so your one good domestic means all are good?
"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net
I see what you are saying, but I have had Chevy, Ford, and Dodge dealers tell me and my wife stuff like that too. Me personally....if you told me a car would last 200,000 miles I would have done enough research on the car to know blue-book value and reliability so I would NEVER pay top dollar for a car. I have been burned too many times with domestics in trade-in values as we do not keep our cars past 3-4 years usually. Our next SUV will probably be a Toyota 4Runner, Honda Pilot, or Lexus RX330(used of course).
My 02 had a LONG list of problems! I loved my Z24....I babied my Cavi....only time I drove it hard was at the J-Body Bash in St. Louis. All of my problems happened before then......leaking windshield, oil leak, bad front strut mounts, rear mounts were acting up, passenger side quarterpanel seam was not sealed, etc, etc. Consider yourself lucky!
One more thing.....If a dealership charges more than the MSRP I would go to another dealership because obviously they are not worth dealing with. This holds true to ALL Import/Domestic dealerships.
jammit... a few bad domestics mean all are bad? seriously... the arguement goes both ways... i'm not saying that all domestics will be reliable... you'll always have defects in any mass produced vehicle. i seriously doubt every import ever is completely perfect and has never had a problem... but that doesn't seem to hurt the reputation of imports as much as it does domestic cars.
tribals... you'd be surprised how many people don't do research on these kinds of things though... how many people have bought ebay coilovers or other ebay junk? car people do research whereas people that aren't as much into cars may not research quite as much. as for charging more than msrp, who sets those values? i don't necessarily mean that the dealers are overcharging for used imports, but the msrp on those vehicles has to be higher for some reason... and i don't think it's just because the engine is more reliable. i do understand that build quality is better as imports tend to have more attention to detail but at the same time, is it really enough to warrant a domestic cars taking big loses where imports devalue slowly... IMO, not so much.
it just seems to me, that the car industry is biased towards imports... and the mindset that import=better only fuels the bias...
one more thing... it's good to see a civilized conversation on JBO.
strat81 wrote:one more thing... it's good to see a civilized conversation on JBO.
Totally agree!
LOL....Ebay coilovers! I have heard of too many of these storys. I agree all have issues, but in my experience we have had far less problems with the imports we have bought.....except for the 97 Eclipse we had. Hell, our 05 Honda Odyssey we bought last year has had issues with the brake pads and a recall on the front impact sensors. That is what we get for getting a 1st year release I guess....gotta work out the bugs.
I still love my muscle cars so I wouldn't totally rule out buying another domestic car!
I had 107,000 miles on my 2001 Cavalier before I totaled it.
Not a single major problem happened with it. Of course it had it's little noises when going over a bump, but nothing mechanical. I think the worst thing that ever happened to my car was the battery died......which lasted 80,000 miles before it died.
I have faith in SOME domestics. I have had such bad luck with Ford that I don't think I will ever own one again. Everyone I know that owns a Ford has problems with it, from the F-150, to the Focus, to the Escort..........all.
I'm not stating all domestics are good, or all domestics are bad, simply just puting my scenario out there.
And yes, I own a Mazda now.......and yes I know Mazda is partly owned by Ford. But it is not a Ford.
strat81 wrote:one more thing... it's good to see a civilized conversation on JBO.
a new trend i'm starting to see alot...loving it. I'm with Tribals too. babied mine and it was junk, totally, totally loved my Z24...but it was junk. Funny thing this was mt first domestic car. the guys at the dealer were all into telling me how great the car was too...they called it a cult car and said there were tons of wesites dedicated to the Z24.
at the time only Z24.com was it...about 3 months later J-body.org came along and the rest was history. anyway. they gave me the same song and dance when buying a cavalier. that car alone has made me an import buyer forever.
"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net
RoNuS20 wrote:I had 107,000 miles on my 2001 Cavalier before I totaled it.
Not a single major problem happened with it. Of course it had it's little noises when going over a bump, but nothing mechanical. I think the worst thing that ever happened to my car was the battery died......which lasted 80,000 miles before it died.
I have faith in SOME domestics. I have had such bad luck with Ford that I don't think I will ever own one again. Everyone I know that owns a Ford has problems with it, from the F-150, to the Focus, to the Escort..........all.
I'm not stating all domestics are good, or all domestics are bad, simply just puting my scenario out there.
And yes, I own a Mazda now.......and yes I know Mazda is partly owned by Ford. But it is not a Ford.
I had a 126,000 miles on my 98 Z24 before I totalled it and had no problems as well. I replaced my battery at 60,000 miles and thats it. I have had 3 Cavy's and no problems with any of them. Okay my 86 Cavy's transmission with but I bought it for $895 in 98 it had 180k plus miles on it and I sold it when my the tranny went at 250k. I mean the AC still worked and the car ran like it was new. Go figure.....I guess I have good luck or domestics aren't as near as bad as they say. Given the fact that I have terrible luck, I'm leaning towards the latter.
"Fiery words fuel debate and debate yields understanding"
My mom's 2002 grand am (with everyone's blessed ecotec) is driven softly (it's been 4 years and she not even at 50,000 kms), the service is done on it regularly and despite that she's had it in at least 4-5 times for different problems (O2 sensor was one of the issues). The gaps in some of her interior panels are horrendous and she's got all sorts of squeaks, rattles and clunks. I know that for the most part this is just an exception (more so these days) rather than the rule but it's hard for it not to leave a bitter taste in my mouth. Even if it is just an exception, how can I in good conscience recommend another domestic knowing the problems she's had? Especially considering the fact that I bought my car a month before her have driven it pretty hard (it's seen more than a couple trips to the track, not to mention my tinkering) and haven't had half the problems she's had?
A comment about the whole resale and value discussion, keep in mind that the original topic of this thread was that the MSRP of the SI is actually LESS than that of the cobalt SS\SC.
I love how the title is "2006 Honda Civic Si pricing" and people have to go crazy and start defending the cobalt so much. Let's be honest, Honda can build engines, plain and simple. When the older Si was out 1.6L putting out 160hp. That's awesome no denying. Even the new civic si is practically cobalt ss sc numbers and it's NA! How you can hate on this car is beyong me. And for those people that jiz their pants when a fwd car has a stupid amount of torque.... think about how practical that is......
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/448390
The Si can't handle a 2.4 SS let alone a SS/SC.
2006 Cobalt SS 2.4L 9.6 @74mph 1/8th mile w/2.28 60ft
How do you figure? The 2.4 SS only makes 171 hp and 163 ft lbs and weighs ~2800 lbs?
