It was a great night last night. I got in 29 runs. The track was somewhat preped from practice drags for todays funnycars vs jetcars. I did end up cutting two 2.2xx 60' times but both times I missed a gear and ended running a couple 16.8s. I ended up with one 2.187 60' and didnt miss a gear and it felt faster then all my runs of the night, but the timing crapped out after the 60' and I ended up with no time. The temperature was 90+ all night and between 10-15% humidity. I didnt have much of the problem I had with heat soak that I did two weeks ago.
Heres the best time slip of the night-
.121
2.356
6.760
10.378
66.67
13.487
16.124
85.77
I did notice when shifting into second it felt like it was bogging versus shifting into third. I gues it may be the rpm it drops down to, ~4000 versus ~4500. Comments welcome.
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04 Cavalier LS Sport- Red with factory silver stripes.
16.186 @ 86.98mph
I have noticed on my 04 cavy, when I shift hard into 2nd it bogs. It especially bogs if you try to speed shift it. I cut better times when I granny shift into second. I wonder if it pulls timing when it does the small bit of wheel hop when hitting 2nd gear so hard? It defiantely does something. I used to power shift the crap out of an OHV cavalier and it ran great, this one will bog on a hard 2nd shift every time.
Your times are okay. I ran a 10.15 @ 69 8th in my cavalier stock. It was cooler than when you ran though. I was running 2.2-2.3 60's also. Eagle rsa's don't seem to launch real well, especially when you are used to racing a RWD car. WIth 29 runs, at least you got alot of practice at different staging techniques, ect.
2004 Cavalier. Razzi. (Sold)
1998 Corvette. Some mods.
1992 Typhoon. Lots of mods.
1994 Civic VX 44MPG
ya, eagle RSA's arnt great for anything. Pretty much any aftermarket tire will outperform them. I'm getting dayton Daytona ZR's for my next tires. And for the bogging issue, shift right before the rev limiter. iT will give you more rpms to start in the next gear.
Nice time!
1971 camaro 427 --- here!
Stock... and loving every minute of it.
Im solving the traction issues this friday *cough dr's cough* , and im thinking about putting the muffler back on and try to gain back some of that torque I lost. Maybe that will help me get to the 1/8 quicker. Look for some new times this friday.
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04 Cavalier LS Sport- Red with factory silver stripes.
16.186 @ 86.98mph
I think updates are in order. Tonight was another hot one, and another day of crappy track prep. I also put the drag rtadials on for todays event., but im too tired to post the resukts. They should be up in the morning.
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04 Cavalier LS Sport- Red with factory silver stripes.
16.186 @ 86.98mph
Quote:
. Eagle rsa's don't seem to launch real well, especially when you are used to racing a RWD car
Quote:
ya, eagle RSA's arnt great for anything.
ahhh, the ricer excuses amuse me....
Come on boys, stop blaming the tires. I cut 2.0 60' times consistently with the exact same sized RSA's that the j's come with stock (with a lot more torque to deal with might i say). Its not the tires, its a lack of practice, or a lack of innovation. If you keep launching the same way, your 60' times will never get any better.
Air them down to 15 psi, clean them off before getting to the line, and feather the clutch and/or throttle, whichever you're more comfortable with. Find the point between boil (roasting the tires) and bog (engine dropping out of the powerband on launch). You can even try pedaling the accelerator and see if it helps.
A car trapping 85 mph is hardly in need of DR's, and in fact your missing out on an opportunity to learn how to drive better by trying to augment your weakness in skill with an advantage in equipment. Its always better to learn how to get the most out of what you have, THEN move on to better gear. Now, you can get DR"s (or any tires for that matter) that are a smaller diameter to increase your gearing which will make you accelerate faster, but IMO, doing this for a car any slower than a 14.99 or so is kind of laughable. Its not to insult anyone, although I'm sure someone will take it that way anyway, but in all seriousness, if you're running DR's on a 16 second car, you're going to get laughed at real bad if someone on street tires blows your doors off.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
i cut my best 60 foot time ever on rsas, they suck for everything else but they arent bad for racing
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
16.1 on a stock MT eco??? thats slooow...I've seen 15s or high 15s on stock MT ecos
Travis C wrote:16.1 on a stock MT eco??? thats slooow...I've seen 15s or high 15s on stock MT ecos
i guess you didn't notice this
Quote:
The temperature was 90+ all night and between 10-15% humidity
that alone with affect times. as well as elevation and if the track is level or on a slight incline.
i have DR's myself, and after chewing my street tires last year id figure i get something with better traction. and i would save my street tires.
Im a Xbox 360 fanboy...and damn proud of it!!
99redz24 wrote:Travis C wrote:16.1 on a stock MT eco??? thats slooow...I've seen 15s or high 15s on stock MT ecos
i guess you didn't notice this Quote:
The temperature was 90+ all night and between 10-15% humidity
that alone with affect times. as well as elevation and if the track is level or on a slight incline.
i have DR's myself, and after chewing my street tires last year id figure i get something with better traction. and i would save my street tires.
Yes the temperature does effect things alot with these ecos, and aswell as other vehicles too. The elevation of the track is no where near sea level, about 1200'. I forget what exactly. I belive the track is level, not a 100% on that tho.
I bought the dr's for the future. I had the money and they were the right price. And they were also an attempt to save my street tires a bit.
Thanks for the tips scarab, I wont be using the drag radials for a while. I used them tonight because the person I bought them from wanted to see how I would do with them. And so did I.
And on to the results, It was another hot night (this time over 100 most of the night), didnt get much of a break in temperature till hours after the sun went down. And by any means it wasnt much. It was a real humid night for Arizona, I didnt check the humidity but I would guess from 30-40%. A storm was rollin through the area, but it never rained. And again I have no proof of my fastest time, the computors f"""ed up again. Well actually it was the slip printer. At least I think it was, I ran par with a truck that was running mid 15s all night. I got to run 16 times. Things I didnt like about the drag radials was that I ran out of gearing in third about the 1000' mark (would be better if I had a higher limiter or more power), another thing was that they were too sticky for a stock car, and another was that the launch window was too small and erratic (varied alot with different temperatures and pressures). Oh well onto the results of the fastest run (granted a lot of you just skip all that I wrote and critisize my bad times on the dr's, and I apologize for taking so long on the results)-
Best run-
.030
2.321
6.687
10.293
68.21
13.401
16.039
83.68
That was my first run of the night. I knew I was going to have to shift before the end of the 1/4 but just forgot to. I ended up bouncing off the rev limiter 5 or 6 times, and then finally shifted. All the rest of the times I ran, I was trapping 85-87 mph. I did beat two mustang gt's
(and yes they were gt's, I know the difference on how the v8 sounds versus the v6's), a v6 mustang, and a couple other cars. I bested my best reaction time too, a .009 from a .012. And for you guys that read all of this, thanks I guess I just went off rambling.
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04 Cavalier LS Sport- Red with factory silver stripes.
16.186 @ 86.98mph
My best time on my ECO before any mods was a 16.1... But then again i only went down the track 3 times, and never went back till i was boosted.
On another note, the Bogging also was killing me... I found full mounts to be a good fix. Lower mount, trans mounts, and now the bogging is gone... Now im gunna put on the upper mount and hopefully the little wheelhop i have left will be gone as well.
<img src="http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/831000-831999/831395_11_full.jpg">
Scarab (Jersey Jay 1.8T) wrote:Quote:
. Eagle rsa's don't seem to launch real well, especially when you are used to racing a RWD car
Quote:
ya, eagle RSA's arnt great for anything.
ahhh, the ricer excuses amuse me....
Come on boys, stop blaming the tires. I cut 2.0 60' times consistently with the exact same sized RSA's that the j's come with stock (with a lot more torque to deal with might i say). Its not the tires, its a lack of practice, or a lack of innovation. If you keep launching the same way, your 60' times will never get any better.
Ricer excuses?? Just because you have a better 60ft time on the same tires doesn't mean jack crap. VW has a better suspension than the Jbody. A LOT less weight transfer to the rear tires on intial launch. The G/F wants a beetle and we went test driving, much better launching car. What is your track prep like? I am running an 8th mile track in the back woods of Alabama, We don't have the luxury of VHT to launch from on our passes like the big NHRA tracks.
You don't think it matters if I go from my car with RWD and 295/35/18's directly into the cavalier on the next run, that it will make a difference? I'd like to see you try. I probably have much more dragracing time, and years dragracing in than you do on and off the track. I have cut better 60ft times with an OHV cavalier with those CONQUEST tires on a different track vs these RSA's at the track I go to now. All of my runs are done with 35psi. I race my cars at the track exactly the way I do on the street.
BTW, none of the cars I own even come close the "Ricer" category that your VW does. All made in America
Ben, So changing out all the mounts did help with the werid boggin the car does? I may check into it, if I decide to keep this car.
2004 Cavalier. Razzi. (Sold)
1998 Corvette. Some mods.
1992 Typhoon. Lots of mods.
1994 Civic VX 44MPG
Quote:
Ricer excuses?? Just because you have a better 60ft time on the same tires doesn't mean jack crap. VW has a better suspension than the Jbody. A LOT less weight transfer to the rear tires on intial launch. The G/F wants a beetle and we went test driving, much better launching car. What is your track prep like? I am running an 8th mile track in the back woods of Alabama, We don't have the luxury of VHT to launch from on our passes like the big NHRA tracks.
Its a joke, get your panties unbunched
Quote:
You don't think it matters if I go from my car with RWD and 295/35/18's directly into the cavalier on the next run, that it will make a difference?
Did I say that? Don't believe I did...
Quote:
BTW, none of the cars I own even come close the "Ricer" category that your VW does. All made in America
For God's sake, its sauerkraut, get it right!
And I'll tell you what, give me the Typhoon, your g/f can have the beetle and all my spare parts
Regardless though, my point was, don't blame the tires because YOU can't adapt to the changing conditions, or because you "want to race it like you do on the street" which, in the end, makes no sense because A) you shouldn't be racing on the street and B) why would you handicap yourself like that, especially when you know you have poor track conditions? Thats all I'm saying.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
When I started reading the post from Scarab, I expected to be offended, but I'm glad I remained calm and read it thru. I still don't agree with it all, but he made some good points.
After nearly 1000 1/4 mile passes in a variety of FWD cars, I would say that if you launch any of them on street tires correctly, you should be able to get your 60 fts down to about 2.20 (assuming decent track prep, since that makes a big difference). I tend to bump tire pressure down no lower than 20 lbs, but I could probably get away with a little lower. I don't even remember what my stock factory original tires were on my '93 Sunbird, but with alot of practice I managed a best of 2.147. On street tires I still shoot for 2.20 or better if I want a good pass. I would try to find that "magic RPM range" between bog and spin, and it was usually pretty narrow (maybe 200 RPM). I would shoot for the highest RPM that I could launch flooring it with only a chirp from the tires (usually between 1750 and 2000). I hate feathering the clutch or gas unless I have to. It's too hard to be consistent in how you do it (I am a bracket racer, and consistancy is everything).
I disagree with the idea that a slower car doesn't need Drag Radials. I began running mine last year, and they have been a huge help. They also help quite a bit during the times that the track doesn't prep the surface well. I can still get below 2.20 when it is awful slick and noone can hook up. They have allowed me to bump my launch up to about 3000 RPM (I could probably go higher, but I'm tired of replacing broken axles), and they have eliminated wheel spin completely. This has made me much more consistent and competitive during bracket races. I got sick of losing a race by spinning or bogging on the line, and not being able to make up for it. I firmly agree that it is best to get as good as you can with what you have before improving your equipment though, I ran street tires for 12 years before making the change.
The decision on upgrading from street tires depends on how you use the car. If you get good traction with the street tires you have, why waste the money. If you can't put the power to the ground effectively though (regardless of ET or mph), they may be worth looking into. I think once I rebuild my tired old 3.1 with over 152K miles on it (still trapping 86 mph on a good day), I will really be able to take advantage of the additional traction!
By the way, this tired old Sunbird with minor mods managed the following as a best this year:
RT: .062
60 ft: 2.060
330 ft: 6.311
660 ft: 9.891 @ 68.67 mph
1000 ft: 13.009
1320 ft: 15.654 @ 85.00 mph
No I don't expect that to make anyone shiver in their boots, but it ain't too shabby, and is still more fun to race than my GTP Sedan that has run 13.826 @ 96.98 (1.955 60 ft on street tires), and that car only has a 3.4" pulley and plugs. I won't be able to better that on street tires, so I may throw some Drag Radials on it too now!
Now all of you who have 60 fts over 2.20 on street tires, go out and practice until you get down to at least 2.20, and enjoy the better ETs you'll see!
Happy racing to one and all!
'93 Sunbird SE 3.1 5-speed
'00 Grand Prix GTP Sedan
sunbird93racer@yahoo.com
Quote:
When I started reading the post from Scarab, I expected to be offended, but I'm glad I remained calm and read it thru.
Aww come on, am I that bad? Seriously, if most people would read my ENTIRE posts, instead of the random playful jabs I'll throw in on occasion, they wouldn't get nearly as offended, if at all. I poke fun, but its rare that I'm serious about it except in cases of incredible stupidity or ignorance.
Quote:
I disagree with the idea that a slower car doesn't need Drag Radials.
Well, that was perhaps bad wording on my part. My main point was that if you can't cut good 60' times in a 16 second car, the reason has A LOT less to do with tires and a lot MORE to do with a poor launch technique/inexperience. Jumping to DR's before learning to improve on what you already have will handicap you somewhat and as I said before, you will lose out on a chance to improve yourself.
Once you've gotten some decent 60's on street tires, moving to DR's that are a little shorter than stock to increase your effective FDR and increase traction, is perfectly acceptable, but I don't think that you should switch to DR's to make up for 2.3 second or higher 60's. A good driver should be able to pull a 2.1 even on a badly prepped track if they take the time to practice and actually experiment with different launch techniques instead of continuously repeating the same one over and over when it doesn't work. Which is what a LOT of people do.
Quote:
F*U all!!!
F*U too!!!!
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
Well, the g/f has no intentions on learning to drive a 5speed, else I would just giver her my cavy, so no trades. Yeah I handicap my times with air pressure, not removing stuff, ect, but I don't really care. It is not my race car, it is my DD. I have gotten 2.2's out of a cavalier, it was just with the 15" conquest tires instead of the rsa's. I may try the other track sometime just to see how much it differs in prep.
My friend had RSA's on his regal gs and has since gone to some walmart tires and is getting better 60ft's. He has a 3.5 pulley, and DHP. Those tires have gotten a lot negative comments on other boards. The tires look good, they just aren't very aggressive.
From looking at your times, it seems the Eco cavalier is about the same speed as the beetle through the 8th mile. The beetle feels much faster when driving it. How do the automatics hold up to minor mods?
I don't think there is anything wrong with running DR's, especially if you are getting to just borrow them. I would do it. I would not expect any huge differences, if anything a barely lower et, but a lower trap too.
2004 Cavalier. Razzi. (Sold)
1998 Corvette. Some mods.
1992 Typhoon. Lots of mods.
1994 Civic VX 44MPG
Quote:
I have cut better 60ft times with an OHV cavalier with those CONQUEST tires on a different track vs these RSA's at the track I go to now. All of my runs are done with 35psi.
i guess the conquests are better than RSA's.. i've never raced with RSA's before... but I've cut 2.0 60' in my eco 5 speed. And I usually run in the area of 20psi up front, and 45psi in the rear.
elevation may be playing a role in why the original poster can't best a 16. Also, LS sports are pigs. A big part of it is hauling around the extra 300lbs of @!#$ they come with over a base or 1SV model.
Quote:
I race my cars at the track exactly the way I do on the street.
jay, remember who used to say that? LOL
Scarab (Jersey Jay 1.8T) wrote:Quote:
. Eagle rsa's don't seem to launch real well, especially when you are used to racing a RWD car
Quote:
ya, eagle RSA's arnt great for anything.
ahhh, the ricer excuses amuse me....
Come on boys, stop blaming the tires. I cut 2.0 60' times consistently with the exact same sized RSA's that the j's come with stock (with a lot more torque to deal with might i say). Its not the tires, its a lack of practice, or a lack of innovation. If you keep launching the same way, your 60' times will never get any better.
you HAVE to admit, for the same price of 4 stock RSA's you can have some wider, better gripping tires, that last longer too! I'm not blaming them I'm just saying they're overpriced.
1971 camaro 427 --- here!
Stock... and loving every minute of it.
[quote=DaFlyinSkwirl (PJ
Quote:
I race my cars at the track exactly the way I do on the street.
jay, remember who used to say that? LOL
Who used to say that?
I like to know that I run xxxxx number in my car the way it is, not the way it is after taking out the spair tire, the seats, the jack, playing with tire pressure, ect. I am not opposed to removing all of that stuff, but it would be done on a permanent basis. I run the typhoon with no radio, speakers, spare tire, jack, ect. It has not had any of that stuff in it for 3 or 4 years. I do leave the seats in it only because i do not want them to get scuffed up. It really makes no difference in it because the dang thing weighs 4500lbs anyhow.
If I were going for the absolute max speed in the cavalier, yeah, I would gut it. However, it is the DD that I use to go to work, haul friends around, ect. I have often thought about how cool it would be to shave 400-500 pounds out of the car, but it is not practical for what I use the car for. I had a CRX HF (1800lbs) it was a ton of fun with only 62hp.
2004 Cavalier. Razzi. (Sold)
1998 Corvette. Some mods.
1992 Typhoon. Lots of mods.
1994 Civic VX 44MPG
NJHK used to say that all the time... when he'd run 16s in a car he sunk $3000 into
haha, cool. I have no mods.
I am fine with w/e the car gets. All I was after was the 35mpg.
Man, 3k in mods and still 16's, that would not be cool.
2004 Cavalier. Razzi. (Sold)
1998 Corvette. Some mods.
1992 Typhoon. Lots of mods.
1994 Civic VX 44MPG
Rob wrote:haha, cool. I have no mods.
I am fine with w/e the car gets. All I was after was the 35mpg.
Man, 3k in mods and still 16's, that would not be cool.
Pj better watch it... NJHK did warn us he has "eyes everywhere" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Anyway, I'm not getting into that topic, but as to your beetle questions, i'll pm you a response after i'm done posting this cuz i don't want to jack poor tim's thread any worse than I already have.
Just remember, just because things get a bad rep on boards doesn't mean its a valid rep. If VWVortex was right about the O2J 5spd trans, I should have shat my trans and axles out about 3 or 4 times by now with how much racing i've done. But none of those parts have broken. Potentially for the same reason that the tires don't get good reviews, people haven't figured out how to drive them properly. I know of almost no one else (besides the guy that suggested to me to do it) that runs 15 psi in em or does a decent burnout to get them warm.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
How is the ls sport 300 lbs more then the 1sv model? I weighed my ls and it came to 2638 with 1/3 tank of gas.
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04 Cavalier LS Sport- Red with factory silver stripes.
16.186 @ 86.98mph
are you sure?
my car is 2500 even with 1/4 tank
I was under the impression they averaged 2800lbs curb weight
well needless to say, whatever the weight difference, its reflected in the times. I've seen a 1sv with an intake go 15.4 @89mph its first trip down the track.. in fact i have videos of it
the weight is whats killing you
