I just got a front end alignment because it's been just slightly out since I put the H&R springs on a year ago. I figured I want the most out of my car for drag racing, and having the front end even a little out could keep me out of the 12's. So while I was getting the alignment, I told the mechanic what I was shooting for, and he helped me out by biasing my alignment for drag racing. When you launch a FWD car hard, especially on dr's and nitrous, the rubber bushings flex alot and the front end goes heavy on the toe in, breaking the tires loose. Once the tires break loose, the rubber bushings return to the unloaded position and the tires hook again, flexing the bushings again and the cycle continues and you get the symptom of wheelhop. So to cure this dilemma, he gave me a less than the factory settings for toe in (I didn't ask just how much, but I trusted him to know how much because he works on race cars often). So the flex of the rubber bushings won't give enough toe in to break the tires loose. That's the theory, anyway, and I drove the car around town today practicing launches. Holy hell, the thing hooks up and goes! No wheelhop at all. Now I really can't wait to put my header on and go to the track!
<img src=http://ourworld.cs.com/jwithspray/Nitrosig13303.JPG>
ive got my tranny mounts and more importantly my urethane control arm bushings on the way. ive never gotten wheel hop on the road after i did my koni installation, but when i went to the track just recently, holy hell did i get a lot. im really counting on the control arm bushings. if they dont work, i dont know what else i can do. besides allignment or strengthening the chasis. btw, thanks for the advice on my 1/8th thread nitro.
Any negetive effects from this? like daily driving?
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v502/brad_sk88/SigSummer05.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">
listening...
2004 Cavalier
13.2@105........
Mods...
BFG Drag Radials
Saab Turbo kit
2.5 exhaust, w/cutout
Spec Stage 2+ Clutch
yep 1/16 toe out per wheel works well
see ya!
I have always had toe out, and no wheel hop here, I guess just lowering the car and not aligning it helped me. lol
Anyways, bias the wieght. lol and play witht he stiffnes of the shocks.
You need adjustable coilover and struts to be able to do this, and it will go away trust me.
No wheel hop here, on a slick.
Best time:"""11.946""" @ 114.73 mph @17psi 1.83--60"
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13's
----12's
----11's
----10's
It isn't any noticable difference on the street while cornering, but I haven't manhandled it around too much today.
<img src=http://ourworld.cs.com/jwithspray/Nitrosig13303.JPG>
any way possible you could get the numbers how he aligned it? we have an alignment rack in class and i can do my own aligning
04 sunfire auto, mid 15's n/a, and still going
I wouldn't understand which numbers were which if I did ask him. If you have a rack at your disposal, play around with it. Start small and log the progress. You might pioneer a new setup for each style of racing.
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im gonna have take my car in to the mechanic to try and get this done
and Nitro, what is the part number for your spark plugs that you run with the giggle gas?
Im a Xbox 360 fanboy...and damn proud of it!!
Nitro wrote:It isn't any noticable difference on the street while cornering, but I haven't manhandled it around too much today.
with azenis on you will notice that on low speed tight turns you can give a good bit of gas and the car just yanks around the turn with little to none inside wheel-spin. (well maybe it's just because my car is slow as he//)
and my car turns into a corner way better than it did with zero toe. we did this at a autocross before first car off. and when i got on course i could not believe it was the same car. i no-longer had to start my turn in early just to hit my apex and have the thing push like a dump truck when i hit the gas at the apex. to my surprise the cav finished 4th out of 23 cars in my class
said thing is i could have went way faster but i didn't know the car anymore. it just amazes me how such a little change can make such a huge improvement. i thought i needed a LSD because of the wheel spin but not anymore.
my settings are : front 2deg camber 1/16 toe out per wheel
:rear 1deg camber zero toe
see ya!
Well, there ya go! Thanks novaracer.
<img src=http://ourworld.cs.com/jwithspray/Nitrosig13303.JPG>
another solution is poly bushings the stock rubber ones are junk
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
I just lowered by car-2.5 inch drop with koni reds and there's almost zero wheel hop....I haven't done my alignment yet and am contemplating the need for it. WOT while corning and no wheel hop...I'm loving it.
cant wait to see the new numbers nitro...
"There is no point in looking fast if your not."
Street and track are completely different. Around the streets I have NO wheel hop. at the track I wheel hop like mad, even into second gear.
My Car
For auto X or oval racing toe out will help corner "turn in" to a point. It would be good to understand the terms, ackerman steering, camber gain, etc.
For drag racing, "bump steer" (toe in/out changes) is a good term to understand, strut front ends can be affected by it quite a bit.
I align my Sunbird front end with it 1" above ride for drag racing as a good average for the whole run. It's a small bit toed out at ride height, but pulls straight under hard acceleration, with minimal toe in.
There's no magic, only comprimise.
jbodyho wrote:
I align my Sunbird front end with it 1" above ride for drag racing as a good average for the whole run. It's a small bit toed out at ride height, but pulls straight under hard acceleration, with minimal toe in.
There's no magic, only comprimise.
I was gonna suggest this. Any of the dodge guys would tell you to do this. If you want to get some super cheap traction advise check out any of the dodge pages...
YEP, my 60' times suck
247HP/267ftlbs at 13psi with built motor
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Good info nitro.
When I added my front sway bar bushings wheel hop went away. Many things can be done to control this. First is your right foot, let off the gas. Tire pressure, stiffer suspension. I want to adjust my Koni's to the full stiffness in the rear and see how that does at the track.
FU Tuning
John Higgins wrote:Good info nitro.
When I added my front sway bar bushings wheel hop went away. Many things can be done to control this. First is your right foot, let off the gas. Tire pressure, stiffer suspension. I want to adjust my Koni's to the full stiffness in the rear and see how that does at the track.
i am going to install my front sway bushings this weekend...
i have all the mounts as well installed.. when i was at the JCO bash last saturday my struts were set at 7 rear (stiffest) rear tire pressure 50 the front i found after some trials that 6 was the best bet for the front... it kept the wheels planted to the track.. front tire pressure was set at 19.... little low... i'll try 22 next time.
with that set up i had pretty much no wheel hop.
on the street my struts are set at 2 all around. when i launch hard for some reason or another
i hardly get wheel hop as well.
if you wheel hop you have "too much traction" in theory. just raise the launch RPM a bit. that cured mine. of course my little bit was 700RPM LOL. now with the drag radials i dont have to worry about anything.
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
Actually, I had less wheel hop switching to drag radials. So much for the more traction=more wheel hop theory. I don't think I'll have any wheel hop anymore now though. It used to wheelhop like crazy on the street, now it just fries nicely without shaking all the crap out of my glovebox, lol.
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since installing the upper poly engine insert and the lower dogbone, I no longer have wheel hop.. I just spin.
Im sitting here waiting for 1:30 as that is when my poly control arm bushings are going in.
I cant wait
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Yea, I believe the upper mount insert really helped me out too. It used to be really bad before that. I still had hop issues after the mount insert, but not as bad. I can't wait to get back to the track now to see how much better my 60' times will be.
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