what would i have to do to swap the gauge cluster to a KMH....i dunno y i wanna do this i guess b/c i can get a cluster for free any ways would it continue to show the correct miles on the odometer and whatnot....
Hmm.. interesting question... I think it depends on the VSS calibration the american one sends 4000 pulses per mile so I guess it would depend on how the kmh calculation is done if they use the same VSS and just convert miles to khm it would work if they use a different VSS it probably would be off. Sorry I dont know which it is. <br>
uh i understand the free cluster but you live in the US why would you want to swap? <br>
"Theres a time in every mans life where he hits a cross roads and...wait...are you wearing panties?"
but I have wanted to do this for awhile, but havent had any luck finding an analog cluster from a "zed". if you decide that you dont want to do this swap, let me know because i am def interested in it. ive searched ebay and have had an ad in the classifieds for a while.
gaz: i hadnt though about the vss part....hmmmm. but in reality, will that matter? i mean, just think of it like any other cluster swap. you note the mileage on your cluster and the new cluster and then do the math to see what the real mileage should be. the car should be calibrating everything in miles so it will just show, say 122,000 KM on the cluster odometer (that might be around 70k miles), and then it will go up normally. does that make sense? it should still calibrate miles normally, but the odometer will just look like it has alot more miles than it does due to most of them being in KM.
evil monkey: why not swap? its different and not many people have it. its still functional, and in my opinion looks cooler (mainly due to the gauges going up to 180...most people will do a double take and not notice the KMH part). i like the idea and if i could swap, i would
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<img src="http://www.tabascoracing.com/images/splash_01.jpg"><a href="http://www.tabascoracing.com">
^^^^^^^ do it, that would be awesome hehehe and good luck with your project bro i cant wait till u do low 12's or 11's hehe
Gilles
"By 1900, cocaine was in the top five pharmaceutical products in the US and was selling for around $2.50 per gram."
Actually I was mistaken the VSS signal goes to the PCM the 4k/m signal comes from the PCM and goes to the Cluster. So the PCM is what does the math and sends the 4k/m signal to the cluster. Since it'd be odd to have the cluster do math when the pcm does it already I doubt that the Canadian PCM sends the same 4000 pulses per
mile signal. If someone has a canadian manual and they can see if the signal is still 4k/m then it should work fine if not... well depending on what it is there are ways of altering the signal.
Then again maybe its the same cluster with a different face on it and different numbers drawn in different places and it wont matter. The faces option seems way cheaper then the design new circuitry option so i bet gm opted for that method. In which case it should work. <br>
well TABASCO let me know i think i can get 2 gauge clusters 1 for u and 1 for me.....let me know how much you wanna pay me for it...basically name your price and i'll let you know if i can actually get them.....i gotta get them from school off the scrap cars that we have.....that and i can get toyota cav emblems....all you will need is new adhesive
qaz wrote:
Then again maybe its the same cluster with a different face on it and different numbers drawn in different places and it wont matter. The faces option seems way cheaper then the design new circuitry option so i bet gm opted for that method. In which case it should work.
yeah now that seems like the most viable option. so like you said...it should work. we shall see...
sunfiregt: name your price. i dont know what it will cost you, if anything,. this isnt a major mod that i need to do...its just something nice that i would like. the few cnd clusters that i have seen (either manual or 3 spds which i cnat use) have been about $25-30US. if you can get one for around there, ill be down with that. just look and let me know. thanks.
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<img src="http://www.tabascoracing.com/images/splash_01.jpg"><a href="http://www.tabascoracing.com">
qaz wrote:Actually I was mistaken the VSS signal goes to the PCM the 4k/m signal comes from the PCM and goes to the Cluster. So the PCM is what does the math and sends the 4k/m signal to the cluster. Since it'd be odd to have the cluster do math when the pcm does it already I doubt that the Canadian PCM sends the same 4000 pulses per mile signal. If someone has a canadian manual and they can see if the signal is still 4k/m then it should work fine if not... well depending on what it is there are ways of altering the signal.
Then again maybe its the same cluster with a different face on it and different numbers drawn in different places and it wont matter. The faces option seems way cheaper then the design new circuitry option so i bet gm opted for that method. In which case it should work.
I think that its just the differerent face thing. I do not know for sure, just what I think.
Where in the manual will it say about the 4000 pulses? <br>
i think that one of the clusters is for a 5 speed and 1 is for an auto not sure if its a 3 or 4 speed though
stereophile wrote:Where in the manual will it say about the 4000 pulses?
Should be in the schematic diagrams <br>
i know for a FACT that 00+ cars are calibrated differently from Canada to the US. There's a setting for country in the BCM settings, which drive the clusters. The range on the 00-05 Canadian cluster is 0-220 km/h (even though it'll only go to 173 km/h and then stop accelerating). The US cluster is 0-110 MPH, but using the same spacing.. so if you put a US cluster in a Canadian car, the needle will point to the wrong speed. Get it?
On 95-99 cars, it's the same tho. You could swap those.
...j <br>
<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/jlenko/cars/3/"><img src="http://members.shaw.ca/johnz24/images/zm_sig2.jpg"></a>
lenko: your knowledge amazes me. i swear....you are the KING!
sunfiregt: well you heard the man....the 95-99s will work fine, and thats what i am looking for. if you happen to find out that you can get a cluster from a 95-99 z24 auto, let me know. i would appreciate it. thanks,
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<img src="http://www.tabascoracing.com/images/splash_01.jpg"><a href="http://www.tabascoracing.com">
Some of my knowledge frightens me, personally...
You can thank KenZ24 for figuring out the 00+ bit... I had one of the first Black Cat Custom gauge sets for my 2000 Z24... but the speedo was off... Ken was the first to notice that the lines were in the same spot, but instead of 0-110mph, it was 0-220 km/h, so the scales were different. Same speed points to a different spot....
I soon after received the Canadian version of the BCC gauges
...j <br>
<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/jlenko/cars/3/"><img src="http://members.shaw.ca/johnz24/images/zm_sig2.jpg"></a>
you seriously need to put all of your knowledge of the J into a FAQ and have dave make a special place for it all. im sure it would take days to read it all, but it would be worth it. btw...i dont suppose you have an extra 95-99 auto zed cluster do you?
i suppose thats just asking too much.....
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<img src="http://www.tabascoracing.com/images/splash_01.jpg"><a href="http://www.tabascoracing.com">
I have this in my car.
Lenko is wrong on this one.
If you are running a 00-05 J the Canadian cluster will work and will show you the accurate MPH, just follow the amber numbers (MPH) not the white numbers (KPH).
Calibration and data is all done in the BCM, the cluster just is showing the BCM info.
Since you want the Canadian cluster, your odometer will show in Kilometers, if swap back to U.S. version you will go back to miles.
All will work, just be prepared to do conversions.
Now in the 95-99 car, I dunno. <br>
>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----
Boo!! I can't be wrong!
I still stand by KenZ24's determination that the cluster won't read the right speed.
If the speedo needle is pointing straight up... then on a US cluster you're going 55 MPH. On a Canadian cluster, you're going 110 km/h, which is around 65 MPH. So if you stick a Canadian cluster in a US car... it would still point straight up at 55 MPH... but instead of pointing to 55MPH... it would be pointing to 65MPH... so it would be off by around 10 MPH.
Let's take this from a different point of view.... When you hit the speed limiter.... on a US cluster it's pointing at 108 MPH.. or 173 km/h... around the 4 o'clock position... which is almost at the end of the scale on the cluster (since it goes to 110 MPH).
On a Canadian cluster, it's also pointing at 173 km/h.. or 108 MPH... but it's not at the end of the scale... it's only at the 2 o'clock position... because the Canadian cluster reads to 220 km/h (even though the car will never get to that speed). I don't know what 220 km/h is in MPH... but it's way more than the limiter.
(I was told by a GM tech that you can set the country code on 00+ J-cars... US cars get set to MPH... for the US cluster... Canadian cars get set to km/h... for the Canadian cluster... I'm not going to straight out say the GM tech doesn't know what he's talking about... but.... well... yeah... anyways....
)
What is in your car Geo?? I was expecting a pic or something!
...j <br>
<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/jlenko/cars/3/"><img src="http://members.shaw.ca/johnz24/images/zm_sig2.jpg"></a>
Ok, brain fart...
SO you're saying that the CLUSTER knows how to tell the difference between miles and km/h?!?
That's wack.
...j <br>
<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/jlenko/cars/3/"><img src="http://members.shaw.ca/johnz24/images/zm_sig2.jpg"></a>
Lenko you are trip dude.
I have the 220KPH cluster in my 02 S/F car that I put in. My car is U.S. car it came with the 110mph cluster form the factory.
The odometer memory is all stored in the BCM not on the cluster. When I plug the U.S. cluster the odometer will read in miles. When I plug in the Candian cluster the odometer will read in kilometer (metric).
Now the reading on the speedometer in the 220KPH cluster, when the needle is pointing 100 KPH (white lettering) the needle is also pointing around 62 MPH (amber). The car is doing that speed which was proven by a Police radar gun with a your MPH display located in my neighborhood.
So the speedometer reading is acurate with either or.
The only thing the cluster is doing is showing the information that the BCM gathered, depending on which cluster, the odometer will show either miles (U.S.) or kilometers (canadian)
Quote:
SO you're saying that the CLUSTER knows how to tell the difference between miles and km/h?!?
The cluster knows how to show miles or kilometers on the odometer depending on cluster.
Plain and simple... It works and it's acurate
*Disclaimer*
Only for the 2000-2005 Js.
<br>
>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----
Damn!
Well.. don't try and put a US Black Cat gauge overlay on a Canadian cluster then... (I did that... it doesn't read the right speed)
I stand corrected on the rest of that.
...j <br>
<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/jlenko/cars/3/"><img src="http://members.shaw.ca/johnz24/images/zm_sig2.jpg"></a>
Tabasco Racing wrote:you seriously need to put all of your knowledge of the J into a FAQ and have dave make a special place for it all. im sure it would take days to read it all, but it would be worth it. btw...i dont suppose you have an extra 95-99 auto zed cluster do you? i suppose thats just asking too much.....
Funny you should mention that... I DO have a 99 auto Z24 cluster... with Black Cat Custom gauge face on it even....
Offers?
...j <br>
<br><br><a href="http://www.lenkorules.com/"><img src="http://members.shaw.ca/johnz24/images/LRDCsig.jpg"></a>
well whaddya know....cool deal man. i dont really need the BCC face unless its the one that turns the whole back light color of the cluster (from blue to red....i know a few people got something like that from them). if not then all i really need is the cluster itself.
actually now that i look at it, i def cant use the cluster since it doesnt list MPH on the inside. i will def need that. and is that a digital odometer? if so, do you think ill be able to use it with my non-digital odometer? you are the expert here so let me know.
as for an offer....im emailing you now. thanks for looking man.
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<img src="http://www.tabascoracing.com/images/splash_01.jpg"><a href="http://www.tabascoracing.com">
Lenko: You've got it mostly right but it's as Mr. G. said. The cluster itself knows how to make the correct reading. It's not just sent a position from the BCM, it's sent the speed and moves the needle accordingly.
So they are easily swappable but, as you mention, you can NOT take a face overlay made for one and put it on the other because that's when you run into the calibration issues.
As you say, when the needle points straight up, it's pointing to a different speed on the Canadian and US clusters so the gauge face has to be made to show the appropriate speeds at the appropriate points.
I tried to explain this to people who were selling the US APC Sunfire overlays at a show in Toronto and they didn't get it and insisted it would work.
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ok so hate to bring this back form the dead but i finally got around to tearing this cluster outta the car i'm workin on at school.....so uhmmm waht we are all trying to say here is that in my 2004 cavalier 5 speed...i can just unhook the origional US gauge cluster and plug in the Canadian gauge cluster and everything will be converted from MPH to KPH....and the odometer will read the correct mileage on the odometer just in metric....this gauge cluster is outta 2000 or 2001 maybe even a 2002 cavalier....and it is for a 5 speed...the only thing i did notice was that there was only 1 connection harness on the back of the canadian cluster.....is that all there is on the 2004 american models......if this dont work in my car id be willing to sell it for 35 bux...and thats cheap compared to what a dealer is gonna charge you for it
