So guys, long time I've been in the dark about my build for the "GXP concept" with school and all but with the holidays rolling in I was looking into dropping the car and adding rims while doing a break job over Thanksgiving break. Well here is the new knot in the rope to figure out. I found the Mille Miglia EVO5 clones (GXP wheels)
Clicky
Sounds great huh? Maybe I should just order them and get back to work instead of sitting around doing nothing.
At first look the rims match up, the Audi shares the same 5x100 bolt pattern and 57.1 center bore size and a +35 offfset. But the lug size on the TT is a 14mmx1.5 while the J-body is 12mmx1.5, obviously larger.
So...I know it may sound stupid, but here we go
Is there a possible easy solution to convert the lug? I was searching around online for "conversion kits" and were basically wheel spacer set ups. Is there a way to adapt the stud to my current hub? Or is there no easy way out and convert the hub all together.
why do that, why can't you just use the 12 X 1.5 nuts, as long as they fit the nut hole, why not use the same size?
I just don't know why you would want to swap out the stud size as it should not make a huge difference
I think the cav has a 56 something hub size though, and I think that the 35 will stick out about an inch over stock, I don't really think that the thread size will do anything, it would be like having any rim from a shop, they don't care what the tread size is , mainly bolt pattern and trying to make the hub fit
steve whitehead wrote:I think the cav has a 56 something hub size though, and I think that the 35 will stick out about an inch over stock, I don't really think that the thread size will do anything, it would be like having any rim from a shop, they don't care what the tread size is , mainly bolt pattern and trying to make the hub fit
I know about the +35 offset sticking out a little. It doesn't bother me much and isn't really that noticeable. The GXP concept had the same rims and they were only offered in a +35 offset at the time as well from MM in the 5x100 bolt pattern, unless GM had them make a custom wheel. I can always roll the fender a bit out to keep the wheel from kicking crap into the side. But it isn't really a bigga deal right now. I dunno about the Cav, but I looked up the fire's hub size and ideally it is a 57.1 on all years. So I guess it looks like I have a match as long as no one else pops in with some info.
Thanks for the help though.
hub size is 57.1mm as far as the offset goes depending on how wide the rim is, it my not be a problem.
StrippedCav98 (Now Quotable) wrote:hub size is 57.1mm as far as the offset goes depending on how wide the rim is, it my not be a problem.
They come in 17x8 and 18x8. The 19s are cutting it too close at being 8.5 wide. With the 17x8 or 18x8 at +35 I doubt they would be much of a problem with rubbing at all.
Ok lets clear up a few things here in this thread.
Anything related to Audi in this thread is useless.
Stock jbody hub size is 57.1. This does not matter though as those wheels will have a large universal bore, probably 73mm. You will need to purchase a set of hub rings because of this (ebay, tire rack, etc).
Aftermarket wheels have lug holes big enough that they'll accomodate most lug nut sizes. Its just a bigger universal hole, thats all. There would be absolutely no reason to change your lugs. And even if you wanted to do that, you would have to drill out all your hubs, and hope that you've drilled it big enough for the bolts to pass through, but not slip either. But again, there's no reason to do that.
Sport edition is tire rack's in house brand.
The wheels are 18x8 and 35 mm offset. This wheel will stick out of the front wheel wells slightly. You rear fenders will need to be rolled or they'll rub and get cut.
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- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
sorry, I did know it was 57.1, for some reason I thought it was smaller than the audi,
and I thought that the bore of the rim was too match the audi,
so why are people saying that a vw rear disk conversion is too hard, if it all matches up what is the problem?
or is it just more fabrication?
Viper98912 wrote:Ok lets clear up a few things here in this thread.
Anything related to Audi in this thread is useless.
Stock jbody hub size is 57.1. This does not matter though as those wheels will have a large universal bore, probably 73mm. You will need to purchase a set of hub rings because of this (ebay, tire rack, etc).
Aftermarket wheels have lug holes big enough that they'll accomodate most lug nut sizes. Its just a bigger universal hole, thats all. There would be absolutely no reason to change your lugs. And even if you wanted to do that, you would have to drill out all your hubs, and hope that you've drilled it big enough for the bolts to pass through, but not slip either. But again, there's no reason to do that.
Sport edition is tire rack's in house brand.
The wheels are 18x8 and 35 mm offset. This wheel will stick out of the front wheel wells slightly. You rear fenders will need to be rolled or they'll rub and get cut.
Thanks for popping in. I knew I would probably have to roll the fender a bit, thats fine with me. Now that I know I don't have to modify the lugs I won't even bother.
I also knew that Sport Edition is tire rack's in house brand, since I contacted them and they said that this rim is a replacement clone for the Mille Miglia EVO5 that they claim is of a greater quality then that of the originals (doubt it tho).
I was also wondering that since Tire rack includes the hub-centric rings to match he audi's 57.1 center bore with the rim, would these be the same type that I would be looking for anyways? Just wondering, otherwise I'll just have to look.
if exactly what matches up? the 5x100 lug pattern is the least of your worries, rotors can easily be redrilled. the problem comes in how the actual setup is held on. there are many diff ways of manufacturers making disc brakes. take a look at the cavy is set up, then take a look at how the vw is set up (which I have no clue). so, what happens, now you gotta figure out if there's a bracket, if not, you gotta make one, figure out how you're going to get the wheel bearing to work, or if not, figure out if you can somehow use the vw wheel bearing, figure out if there's enough spacing in all aspects of the rotor vs caliper (which btw, is normally only a couple millimeters in many different dimensions), figure out a way to use lugs instead of studs, figure out if there's enough space inside whatever holds up the setup, figure out if your ebrake is going to work, if not, how you're going to modify it, see if the piston size of the caliper will largely affect the braking bias, or even the pedal feel, see if any mounting locations or bolts will fit or if you'll totally need to hack up the rear, and the list goes on and on and on and on. a rear disc conversion isn't necessarily a piece of cake, there's a lot of thinking that has to go into it if you're doing it for the first time.
the only reason I was able to do my daytona conversion (which by the way, took me WEEKS to finish) was because it was similar to the neon conversion that i had before. all the work for the neon has been already been done, proven, and well documented, so why are you going to try to do something brand new from scratch that will take you a long time to see if it's even feasible, if there's already a great solution out there. i mean look at the number of pages the neon thread has alone. and that doesn't count all the other small posts that were made. there is no other rear disc setup as well documented as that one. not even neufang's, which was great, but never really tried on a large scale nor given specific instructions.
there are absolutely ZERO advantages to using the vw setup over the neon setup.
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- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
Yea, I've heard the same thing that these are better quality. That's a toss up because well, its Tire Rack's brand and they'll tell you whatever they want. At the same time, I do remember reading that there were structural problems with the mille's, so its a good question on who to believe.
And yes, if you order the audi tt hub rings, they should fit just the same. mind you, the Audi TT is the only recent audi that has the 57.1 and 5x100 that matches our cars. Remember though that you cannot get their full install kit if it comes with bolts cuz you'll just be wasting your money. You can always find on ebay a set of rings, and if not, you can get them off summit. Gorilla makes all sorts of hub rings, and summit sells the set super cheap, for like $8. Of course, you have to pay the 9.95 shipping fee, so if you've got anything else to order from summit might as well do it now. If its not listed on summit's website, you can always call summit and tell them you want to special order it and call them back in a few days, etc (thats what I had to do). Remember you want plastic/polycarbonate rings, because the aluminum ones tend to rust to the wheel and/or hub.
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- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
Viper98912 wrote:Yea, I've heard the same thing that these are better quality. That's a toss up because well, its Tire Rack's brand and they'll tell you whatever they want. At the same time, I do remember reading that there were structural problems with the mille's, so its a good question on who to believe.
And yes, if you order the audi tt hub rings, they should fit just the same. mind you, the Audi TT is the only recent audi that has the 57.1 and 5x100 that matches our cars. Remember though that you cannot get their full install kit if it comes with bolts cuz you'll just be wasting your money. You can always find on ebay a set of rings, and if not, you can get them off summit. Gorilla makes all sorts of hub rings, and summit sells the set super cheap, for like $8. Of course, you have to pay the 9.95 shipping fee, so if you've got anything else to order from summit might as well do it now. If its not listed on summit's website, you can always call summit and tell them you want to special order it and call them back in a few days, etc (thats what I had to do). Remember you want plastic/polycarbonate rings, because the aluminum ones tend to rust to the wheel and/or hub.
Thanks I'll keep that in mind and check it all out. I think tire rack is giving the hub rings and "tuner lugs" for free with the rims. I know I am going to be getting a set of McGard 12mmx1.5 bolts and maybe spend a little more and get the "keyed" type while at it and if the rings I get from tire rack are aluminum I'll invest in some poly-carbs.
I got a little confused with your response above this one, but then I realized that there were dual topics being discussed in my thread. lol
Thanks though for the help, looks like I finally found the rims after two years of on and off looking. I'll see how the rims work out, I'm not that aggressive at driving and curbing wheels. Haven't done that yet ::crosses fingers:: but at the price offered for rim and tire there isn't a reason not to pick them up.
well, the mcgard BOLTS won't help you much
also, you're in a pickle. the 17x8 and 18x8 in 5x100 come in 35 and 50 mm offsets. IMO, 35 pushes the wheels out too much, and while the 50 would match up perfectly w/ the front fenders, the 8" width might rub the struts and will definitely rub the inner fenderwells when turning lock to lock.
decisions decisions
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- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
Viper98912 wrote:well, the mcgard BOLTS won't help you much
also, you're in a pickle. the 17x8 and 18x8 in 5x100 come in 35 and 50 mm offsets. IMO, 35 pushes the wheels out too much, and while the 50 would match up perfectly w/ the front fenders, the 8" width might rub the struts and will definitely rub the inner fenderwells when turning lock to lock.
decisions decisions
well, the mcgard BOLTS won't help you much
----> Thanks for the correction I should learn to re-read before I post, ehh screw it.. lol
Anyways,
How far do you think the +35 will push out in the front, maybe a good half an inch to an inch? I ran a quick search for a couple other people running +35s and 8in wides and said that they didn't have any problems. I really don't want to rub the struts so maybe the +35 will work.
I did a quick search and (BYE) is (or was) running 18x8.5 and had to roll his fenders to make them work and only stuck about 5mm out from the fender. I will probably go this route.
http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=42&i=32477&t=32382#32477
Dunno, I think I'll sit tight for now and take a look at things when I get home from Boston for the Thanksgiving break and flush out a game plan from there. I'll keep everyone posted
mmmm I love decisions.
personally... here are my opinions.
mille milgias are great looking rims, but they are soft as butter and dont take kindly to potholes and such (even more than normal alloys). they tire rack ones probably arent as soft of a metal, hence why they claim better qualiy.
the bolt patterns line up fine, the center bores are the same, and the offests arent bad.
normal nuts should hold onto those rims fine, worse comes to worse, get a nut with a seat that will match the seat of the bolt hole of the rim.
you can put in larger studs if you really want to, but its not needed. the 12x1.50 should work perfectly well.
as for the little offset dilema here... its not that big a deal. im pretty sure the j-bodies are a low +40 something mm (cant remember for the life of me right now). the +50 mm should fit fine, but you could always add a spacer to the +35 mm to bring them out more and get them "truer" to the j-body offset.
one last question, what the hell is taking you so long to finish this thing?!
1997 RedR - ZedR
http://pontiacsunfire.com/exterior3.html
this car has 8" width wheels with a 35 mm offset. some angles it looks great, some it sticks out slightly from the body lines. I'm just warning you thats all because its a big difference between the stock wheel and the aftermarket wheel.
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- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
whitegoose( RedR-ZedR) wrote:personally... here are my opinions.
mille milgias are great looking rims, but they are soft as butter and dont take kindly to potholes and such (even more than normal alloys). they tire rack ones probably arent as soft of a metal, hence why they claim better qualiy.
the bolt patterns line up fine, the center bores are the same, and the offests arent bad.
normal nuts should hold onto those rims fine, worse comes to worse, get a nut with a seat that will match the seat of the bolt hole of the rim.
you can put in larger studs if you really want to, but its not needed. the 12x1.50 should work perfectly well.
as for the little offset dilema here... its not that big a deal. im pretty sure the j-bodies are a low +40 something mm (cant remember for the life of me right now). the +50 mm should fit fine, but you could always add a spacer to the +35 mm to bring them out more and get them "truer" to the j-body offset.
one last question, what the hell is taking you so long to finish this thing?!
True I'll look into it.
lol why is it taking so god**** long? Long story short, I went to school for Architecture = no money and not home to work on it. Now I am working in Boston and not in my home state of CT where my car resides. I also had the bright idea to take grad classes for another two years so I can get my license in Architecture which makes my stay away from home a little longer. But now that I am making a positive income with work, I can put some of it into my car when I am home for breaks and vacations. Why not bring the car to Boston? No garage and $200 a month for a parking space is retarded.
It'll get done one way or another tho.
Viper98912 wrote:http://pontiacsunfire.com/exterior3.html
this car has 8" width wheels with a 35 mm offset. some angles it looks great, some it sticks out slightly from the body lines. I'm just warning you thats all because its a big difference between the stock wheel and the aftermarket wheel.
Thanks, I always love that car and you are right on the views, but personally to me it doesn't look at all that bad.
oh it looks fantastic, I just wanted to make sure u know since u seem to be thinking this through pretty well.
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- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
about the conversion,
I get it now, it is just easier and nicer to do what works well.
easy enough,
oh, didn't mean to add another topic here, just made me wonder when we were talking about audi's and vw's
