The car- { 04 Saturn Ion}.(F23, 5 speed) with 160,000 miles.///////// I also have an 01 5 speed 2.2 Cavalier both are F23's.
The Problem- My Saturn Ion takes 4 5 6 7 slams into reverse to finally go in some times. Going into 1st then reverse goes in easier. Grinds terribly if just slammed into reverse one time.
I believe it is a bad sinkro.
I would rather change the trans than take it apart try fixing it and finding out that did not fix it. The Eco teck 5 speed trans are hard to find and when I do they want entirely to much. Just trying to find a different bolt in fix.
Another part of the problem is the clutch only has about 1 1/2 inch of clutch in the pedal. I plan on installing a new OEM clutch Assm. with a new master cylinder when i do actually pull the trans.
Things I have done-Bleed slave cylinder and adjusted the shift cables Both seems to help it just slightly.
I know they are the same internally
I also know the 2.4 has a different bell housing.
______________________________________________________________________
Will a NON ECO F23 work in an ECO car???????????????
1. Bell housing? If so will the eco one bolt on?
2. Are the CV input shafts the same spline?
3. Are the mounting points the same? or are the casted in the same places?
They both look to be the same trans to me?
Please help me. Just want to get back and forth to work every day and work properly.
You would have to swap bell housing and I don't believe there is a synchroniser for your reverse gear.
I thought getrags had reverse synchro and it was isuzu that didn't... I think
Internals should be the same, maybe with the exception of final drive ratio. The entire case will be different between the two though. Ion's mount in different spot than the J cars. Double check the input shaft spline diameter , it MAY BE 15/16'' on the ION tranny compared to the Cavy tranny. No big deal if using a Cavy clutch when installing in the Saturn.
Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 3rd quickest Ecotec on the .org - 10.949 @ 131.50 MPH!!!
I will have to look and see if the case has the same casting holes but the look identical in the car but i haven’t taken the inner fenders off or even crawled under it to far. I was just looking at the two today and comparing and they both LOOK to be the same.
When I do it I can order whatever clutch set I need as long as I can hook my slave cylinder up from the car to the trans.
Also if the bell housing would even be just a 1/4 in shorter, eco to non eco that would make the CV stub not reach.
Really hopping someone else has tried this swap.
the swap will not work, the only thing you could do is have someone pull both trannys apart and swap the guts, the saturn has a 3.84 final drive aswhile, i have a good ion tranny with 40k miles ill sell
Jon Eigenman wrote:The car- { 04 Saturn Ion}.(F23, 5 speed) with 160,000 miles.///////// I also have an 01 5 speed 2.2 Cavalier both are F23's.
The Problem- My Saturn Ion takes 4 5 6 7 slams into reverse to finally go in some times. Going into 1st then reverse goes in easier. Grinds terribly if just slammed into reverse one time.
all f23's are like this. if put into first, then into reverse it should go in fine. another thing maybe that if you are trying to go into reverse while moving, the trans wont like it. even though 5th is synchro'd in these cars, it is still not the best thing to do.
Jon Eigenman wrote:Will a NON ECO F23 work in an ECO car???????????????
1. Bell housing? If so will the eco one bolt on?
the entire case is different.....both sides. internals are identical unless the F23 came from a saturn vue.
Jon Eigenman wrote:2. Are the CV input shafts the same spline?
yes
Jon Eigenman wrote:3. Are the mounting points the same? or are the casted in the same places?
They both look to be the same trans to me?
Please help me. Just want to get back and forth to work every day and work properly.
the mounting points are not the same. that is why the cases have to be swapped. all in all, it is probably easier for you to just find the right trans and do a direct swap. i recently tried this, and know for a fact that the entire case if different, and taking about and putting back together two entire transmissions just to swap cases will be a pain in the ass. the bearing need pressed and then you have to make sure you get it all put back together right the first time, or you have to do it all again.
my advice. get on LKQ's website online, or car-parts.com and look for the right make model and year.
Fast D wrote:the swap will not work, the only thing you could do is have someone pull both trannys apart and swap the guts, the saturn has a 3.84 final drive aswhile, i have a good ion tranny with 40k miles ill sell
this is not true..all f23's that are in delta's, or j's have the same identical gear set....the only one that is different is the one that is in the saturn vue. it have a 5th gear that is different.... the M86 is for the light vehicles (cars) and the MG3 is for the Vue
final drive 1 2 3 4 5 R
3.84 3.58 2.02 1.35 0.98 (M86) 0.69 3.31
(MG3) 0.81
EvoFire wrote:Fast D wrote:the swap will not work, the only thing you could do is have someone pull both trannys apart and swap the guts, the saturn has a 3.84 final drive aswhile, i have a good ion tranny with 40k miles ill sell
this is not true..all f23's that are in delta's, or j's have the same identical gear set....the only one that is different is the one that is in the saturn vue. it have a 5th gear that is different.... the M86 is for the light vehicles (cars) and the MG3 is for the Vue
final drive 1 2 3 4 5 R
3.84 3.58 2.02 1.35 0.98 (M86) 0.69 3.31
(MG3) 0.81
The XFE Cobalts have a slightly different gear ratio from standard F23's.
Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 3rd quickest Ecotec on the .org - 10.949 @ 131.50 MPH!!!
Roofy wrote:EvoFire wrote:Fast D wrote:the swap will not work, the only thing you could do is have someone pull both trannys apart and swap the guts, the saturn has a 3.84 final drive aswhile, i have a good ion tranny with 40k miles ill sell
this is not true..all f23's that are in delta's, or j's have the same identical gear set....the only one that is different is the one that is in the saturn vue. it have a 5th gear that is different.... the M86 is for the light vehicles (cars) and the MG3 is for the Vue
final drive 1 2 3 4 5 R
3.84 3.58 2.02 1.35 0.98 (M86) 0.69 3.31
(MG3) 0.81
The XFE Cobalts have a slightly different gear ratio from standard F23's.
i dont believe this at all....according to ALL research i have done ever even calling and getting part numbers has shown me that there are only two variations to the internals of ALL f23's
So End of story every one agrees, The case from the ion and the cavalier f23 from eco to non eco are diffrent? I just dont want to pull it apart then It not be rite and then i wont be able to use it at all.
AND not all f23's do this, because this is my fathers car the ion and my 01 cavalier has 230,000 + miles on it and that 5 speed shifts and works great and I have owned it for the past 60,000 miles.
And unless your from around the STL MO area It probably would not be worth shipping it from far away. But how much are you wanting for it?
The main purpose of my ? about the two trans is because I can pick up cavi trans for around $75 and more than three four times that for eco trans.
***** Will all eco f23 trans work. I really dont care about the gear ratio if my speedo gets off then so be it.
Or do I have to get an ion trans only? or ware can I look it up at what trans interchange.
just get and f23 from an ion or cobalt....end of story...and i posted above a couple sites you can look at to find some.
i have a tranny out of a 2004 ion with only 40k miles, i want 250 for it, probably around 75 to ship a tranny
