I have a 99' cavalier Z, and i installed the B&M short throw about 9 months ago. I am still not satisfied with the throw at all. I was curious. My friend Ryan got a short throw for his Jetta, and he cut it down even more, and it is so ridiculously tight and the throw is next to nothing.
Would anyone recommend it?
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Currently Driving: RSX Type-S.
My Cavalier Burnt up :-(
Not a B&M there are alot of people on here looking for one. I would say if u want to cut the shifter get a cosmo or just cut the stocker.
Tinkles wrote:Not a B&M there are alot of people on here looking for one. I would say if u want to cut the shifter get a cosmo or just cut the stocker.
Why would that prevent me from cutting it? Im not going to spend more money on another one.
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Currently Driving: RSX Type-S.
My Cavalier Burnt up :-(
Because just cutting it wont shorten the throw at all. it will just make the shaft shorter. the way a short throw works, it changes the pivot point. cutting it wont save anything. and i think what he was meaning was B&M's are kinda pricey to just hack up. could make more money selling it and cutting a cheaper one.
why does nobody get that the height of the stick doesn't effect the throw?
read vince's post.
there should be a sticky on this.
cutting the shifter won't make it feel tighter, it'll make the shifter effort higher because you have less leverage on the shifter. the throw will still be sloppy.
if you want to tighten up the feel of your shifter replace the shift cables.
DaFlyinSkwirl (PJ) - APU wrote:why does nobody get that the height of the stick doesn't effect the throw?
read vince's post.
there should be a sticky on this.
cutting the shifter won't make it feel tighter, it'll make the shifter effort higher because you have less leverage on the shifter. the throw will still be sloppy.
if you want to tighten up the feel of your shifter replace the shift cables.
You are soo correct in what you are saying (meaning), but it will feel tighter, but it really is not doing anything. I did this way back on my 97 Z24, it felt great, but truly does not do anything, other than looks.
FU Tuning
well, how much are shift cables?
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Currently Driving: RSX Type-S.
My Cavalier Burnt up :-(
sorry guys, but i must dis-agree.
i cut my stock shifter on my 97z down 2 inches and put the stock knob back on. NO it did not shorten the throw, i KNOW this... BUT... it did make the shifter feel a whole hell of a lot better. i feel that it actually improved my shifting quite a bit, i hate shifting with a big long ass rod. maybe it's different with other people, but in my experience, cutting the stocker helped a whole hell of a lot, i can only imagine the feel of a b&m to get better by cutting it down as well.
anybody who has ever driven an izuzu AND getrag cars can attest to the izuzu shifter setup to being the sloppiest POS setup to have ever dis-graced a j-body.
try driving a 97 stock shifter izuzu car, then a 2002 getrag car w/ b&m, the difference is like a BMW and a freakn dildough.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, January 22, 2008 7:55 PM
So now, for the final say.. SHOULD I CUT DOWN MY SHIFTER?
This is for my personal modification, and i don't care if i preserve the value of the shifter. This is MY car, and i want what would benefit me.
Whenever i buy something for my car, i cut it a loss anyway. Cars are such a horrible investment, but it is too damn fun!!!
I was only thinking of cutting off to just below the "U" cut in the shifter rod. it should be a 1" reduction.
AND IM SURE, if i cut it down, people would still buy it after i part my car out someday.
I'm back from the dead.
Currently Driving: RSX Type-S.
My Cavalier Burnt up :-(
ill send you the ebay one i have therefor i can have ur b&m, ill pay shipping both ways. if ur gonna cut one down please send me ur b&m and not ruin it, i will send you mine, its brand new u will just need to swap it in. as stated above there are those of us out here lookin for the b&m.
and i disagree with most saying cutting down ur shifter doesnt shorten throw, draw it out, do some math and ya it does. with the shift knob now being closer to the ball it will reduce throw
ms paint skills
Shortening the shifter WILL affect the throw, not just as dramatic as changing the pivot point. Gman's picture shows that and the therory was confirmed by B&M R&D folks too. Karo and I were the test vehicles for the 95-99 B&M and when I was up there for final fitments I asked them that same question. At the time I didn't think it would matter but they showed me how it can shorten the throw.
sorry dude, i already cut it down about twenty minutes ago, and i will have to say, it helps ALOT.
EVen if it just SEEMS like it's shorter, i believe it helps alot. becuase part of shifting is actually FEELING whats going on.
I'm back from the dead.
Currently Driving: RSX Type-S.
My Cavalier Burnt up :-(
cool, well its nice to know that it acctually does shorten the throw.
Vincent Morris wrote:x2, and in doing the mat, it really does not shorten it, the only way to shorten the throw is to move the pivot point. your still moving the shifter the same amount with it up higher.
Since the shifter is on a pivot, it does not move in a straight line, but rather a curved one. Given no obstructions, it would travel in a complete circle along that pivot. So, busting out my old math book:
Arc Length = (angle in radians) * radius
1 degree = 0.0174532925 radians
http://www.coolmath.com/reference/circles-geometry.html <-- confirms the formula
By chopping the shifter 1", you reduce the radius, therefore making the distance needed to move the shifter knob shorter.
So, using the above formula, assuming a 5" stock shifter shaft above the pivot point and a 40* angle between 3rd and 4th (that's not accurate, but WTH), you get the following:
Arc Length = (40 * 0.0174532925) * 5 = you will need to move the shift knob 3.49" of travel to shift from 3rd to 4th.
Reduce that to 4":
Arc Length = (40 * 0.0174532925) * 4 = 2.79" of travel to shift from 3rd to 4th.
Reduce to 3", 2.09" to shift from 3rd to 4th...
If I'm not on the right path, let me know.
someone had a REALLY good diagram on here at one point and i cant find it, i searched the crap outa this site already for it lol.
Even though the pivot point may change by installing an STS, the chord distance for everything below the pivot is fixed (although arc distance will increase by moving the pivot up the shaft). This is due to the linkage assembly at the trans.
By cutting the stock shifter, it requires more force to shift (given principles of levers), but will effectively shorten the throw since both chord distance and arc distance are reduced. Whether its a B&M or stock, the arc distance below the pivot will remain the same... the variable is the length above the pivot.
http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=2&i=311114&t=311112#311114
DarkStars wrote:you could cut it and use a dye to thread it and that will make it shorter but thats not how a short shifter works. Over all length of the short throw is usually the same or very close to the length of the stock shifter, they move the round ball that acts as a pivot upwards on the shift, which makes the movement required to move the linkages the same distance with less effort on your part.
So, an STS follows the same principles as I mentioned above as far as arc distance for the throw, but since it retains the same overall length of a stock unit, as DarkStars mentioned, uses less force to change gears.
To confirm, see below:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/505009/what_is_a_short_throw_shifter_and_can.html
Quote:
Perhaps the first, and most important, element to consider here is how the short throw shifter actually works, and why people install them in the first place. In a manual car, the distance between gears (or how far you have to move the shifter to get to the next gear) is known as a "throw". So, a short throw shifter is designed to decrease the time that one spends going between the gears, and allow one to hit the next gear faster and more accurately. Herein lies the other intended purpose of the short throw shifter is to improve the overall feel of shifting, making the shifts seem more balanced and the feel "tighter" overall.
instead of cutting it down, why not remove the spacers from the bottom of the shifter? my b&m seems to sit a tad bit high also but when i get around to it, im going to remove the blue spacers at the bottom.
StrippedCav98 (Now Quotable) wrote:instead of cutting it down, why not remove the spacers from the bottom of the shifter? my b&m seems to sit a tad bit high also but when i get around to it, im going to remove the blue spacers at the bottom.
I didn't even install them to begin with. It didn't fit under my console, i would have had to cut a chunk of plastic out of square to have the beige plastic thing lift up far enough to allow me to shift.
I'm back from the dead.
Currently Driving: RSX Type-S.
My Cavalier Burnt up :-(
Vincent Morris wrote:someone had a REALLY good diagram on here at one point and i cant find it, i searched the crap outa this site already for it lol.
I drew one up in autocad to prove it, but I can not find it either. LOL
Made a new one. LOL Sorry for the bad quality. It was a 5 minute job.
Actually cutting a stock shaft shorter is actually making shifting harder, because you have less leverage on the stick. It takes more force to move a cut shaft, than a stock shaft.
z yaaaa wrote:cool, well its nice to know that it acctually does shorten the throw.
Brad you might be shorting the throw you see above the pivoit, but you are not changing a thing below it. You still have the same throw under the pivoit, and are still moving the cables and linkage the same distance.
steve white wrote:A short throw shifter works by making the part under the pivot ball longer, meaning you dont have to move your arm as far, but are required to use more force. It makes it feel much better, the heavier knob adds to that feel. The amount of throw you can reduce is limited by the distance from the floor under the shifter assymbly, to the pivot ball. If you can make this distance further, by makeing the shifter assymbly sit further from the floor, then you can make the shifter throw shorter, cutting the shifter on the top will only shorten the amount you have to throw a little bit, but making the bottom part of the shifter longer will reduce throw a lot. If you found out how much you can raise the base before it will not fit under the center console, then made the part that connects to the shiftercableto the pivot ball as long as possible, you would get a great feeling shifter, especially after you cut the top part down a little and added a nice weighted knob.
He has it dead on.
Edited 7 time(s). Last edited Thursday, January 24, 2008 9:28 AM
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
lol screw it. i like the feel better. cut down ftw
So would there be an optimum amount to cut down the shifter to make the shifting most percise?
Like, if you were to take the length below the pivot point, and make it equidistant to the amount above the pivot point, would that then be the optimum distance?
I'm back from the dead.
Currently Driving: RSX Type-S.
My Cavalier Burnt up :-(
Wil Ketchin wrote:So would there be an optimum amount to cut down the shifter to make the shifting most percise?
Like, if you were to take the length below the pivot point, and make it equidistant to the amount above the pivot point, would that then be the optimum distance?
Well kinda. you need to factor in the weight as well, but equal or great on top is better than having the top shorter than the bottom. The weight that brad added to his 97 shifter in conjunction with the cutting down made it feel better.
Hell just putting an eight-ball on my HHR gear shift, which indirectly shorted the top length a little make it feel a lot better.
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
