ok....so air->turbo->intercooler->charger->motor->turbo->back into the charger lol......i have some questions lol
1] lets say the turbo would be pushing out 6psi then that 6 lbs of boost would be further compressed going into the charger at 8psi, but by how much?
2] how would i regulate that?
3] would i have to somehow bypass the charger at high rpms? or not??
4] last but certainly not the least.....would i just tune the fuel and timing maps as if i were running just one power adder?
5]is this a stupid idea?
and i know i would need to build the motor top to bottom, im very aware of that.....
but wouldnt it be cool to have the sc whine and then a psshhhhh lol...and the power, man it would have some power......this would be a loooong project but it would be well worth it IMO.... thanks guys
2000 Camaro V6.
| SLP Loudmouth | CAI Intake | HID's |
It's not necessarily a stupid idea but I think it's just too much to try and maintain and tune.
Maybe there is someone who will post that has more insight than me.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
wish I could find that SCC article on this......... but its been done a few times on Mini's..... with pretty good success.....
SPD RCR Z -
'02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT -
'04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI -
'78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap
Hahn produced a prototype Ecotec twincharger kit for the SEMA show. I'll see if I can dig up some pics....
I think it could be pulled off. I say go for it.
theres really only three reasons I could imagine why any one could do this
1. A monster rally cross setup huge power with turbo but no spooling with SC. but any one that serious problay would have other meathods.
2. show value, hey its twin charging!!!
3. your really, really, bored
The main problem is, is that the means dont justify gains. for the work and money spent, there are other easyer ways to accomplish your goals IE speed accelartion whatever. the point it unless your goal is to twin charge its not a real great choice. but either way I say go for it you obivsly are looking to it and your alredy half the way there.
"
Kick azz is my boost hero!!! 
"
Jcavi is correct, while twincharging is cool for the "wow" factor, its largely impractical. The only reason to even justify it is that to achieve your peak hp goal you need to run a turbo so big that it wouldn't spool until 4500-5000 rpm.... which is where the supercharger would come into play to help keep up the low end and help spool the turbo. By that point the motor would need to be massively strengthened and you'd be making so much power that without awd, a full cage, and slicks, you'd do nothing but blow up transmissions, boil the tires off, and never really accomplish anything. There was a really good write up on this in SCC a few months back, and why 99% of the time its a terrible idea for a street car. BTW the featured twincharged Mini later blew its engine into tiny bits...
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
Scarab wrote:BTW the featured twincharged Mini later blew its engine into tiny bits...
LOL Nice touch Jay
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
YAY, smart twincharging questions and smart twincharging answers. Lets lock it now and make a milestone.
ahah well ill get probably a good 10-15 more posts about this.. but i am doing this as we speak... i got the turbo kit and emanage and injectors ect.... ready to go... just have to install it now....
I also have a way that the supercharger after 5-6psi will close the by pass valve and flow the air past the rotors so that i dont get as much heat... supercharger will be there at the start to not only spool up the turbo faster but give instant boost... and for all thoughts doughters out there i am msging back and fourth with a guy who ran a Jackson racing supercharger (Eaton M62) on his civic, then pulled it off and went turbo, then put the supercharger back on for the twin charge and he said his car was ALOT faster in the 1/4mile and every thing and he had the dyno sheets to show it... and WOW his torque curve went litterly straight up.. and he Also noticed the turbo spooled up alittle over 1500rpm faster, and thats on a 1.6L with the same turbo i am using and i produce more exhaust gases... and here is the dyno sheet comparing the Turbo only to the Twin charged.. This was the first dyno after the set up was put on he says and there for shows a slight loss up top but from what i hear that has all changed after tuning and there is no loss at all any more only big gains
here is 2 videos
http://rmcdaniels.home.mindspring.com/TC/Videos/TC%20Movie%201.wmv
http://rmcdaniels.home.mindspring.com/TC/Videos/Movie%20Hi%20Res.wmv
and the dyno sheet
The First Twin Charged jbody
blue car (R.I.P) - 240whp @7psi..
silver car - 305whp 315lbs.tq @15psi (91 Octane) or 420whp & 425lbs.TQ @20psi (94 octane+Alcohol Injection)
All dynos run on a Mustang dyno
how are you going to bypass the rotors? thats one of the questions im stumped on.....info please! lol....
2000 Camaro V6.
| SLP Loudmouth | CAI Intake | HID's |
twin charging is a OLD idea , diesels have done it for along time
there is a white STi running around with the s/c from a benz so it has the electric clutch on it , he was running great times with it , the s/c was used up to about 20psi then shut off and was all turbo
but i can see this topic going the way of AS THE JBODY WORLD TURNS , LOL
nothing but haters a doubters , and people who just want to argue
ZStreetCavSC(Whinin) - most superchargers have a bypass valve so you can dump boost back in cruise , all you need to do is give the valve vacuum , once it opens it will relieve some of the pressure the s/c has to creat boost with
ZStreetCavSC(Whinin) wrote:how are you going to bypass the rotors? thats one of the questions im stumped on.....info please! lol....
Well im just getting the full details from the guy with the civic with the Eaton supercharger and from what i gather i replaced the by pass valve that was on the supercharger with one that will cause it to see vacuum again after 6psi of boost so the air by passes the rotors...
The First Twin Charged jbody
blue car (R.I.P) - 240whp @7psi..
silver car - 305whp 315lbs.tq @15psi (91 Octane) or 420whp & 425lbs.TQ @20psi (94 octane+Alcohol Injection)
All dynos run on a Mustang dyno
are you guys talking about running air from the output of the supercharger into the intake of teh turbo (not the turbo compressor)?
I had the idea of running a supercharger that had the SC output go into the compressor intake part of teh turbo......so basically the turbo is spoole up by SC and no exhaust is involved, but I like your idea better, lol
something else I was thinking for shutting of teh SC is to use a pulley off an AC compressor cause it has an electronic clutch in it so you could turn the SC on and off with a switch, or somehow have something electronicly turn it off after a certian ammount of boost is reached and teh SC is no longer needed.
no lol.....on our sc's the output is directly bolted to the head....now on the prototype gm chargers they were two part i beleive so that could be done......but in order to do it the way you are describing you would have to have a centrifugal type sc
2000 Camaro V6.
| SLP Loudmouth | CAI Intake | HID's |
Mr.Efficiency (Tyrin) wrote:or somehow have something electronicly turn it off after a certian ammount of boost is reached and teh SC is no longer needed.
That what i am doing, but it wont really just turn it off , it will have it so the air will by pass the supercharger rotors after say 5psi and then its all turbo... but with the wastegate being hooked up to the line on the supercharger, it will always be putting 10psi into the engine just the first 5 or 6psi will be the turbo and supercharger then after that will only be turbo...
The First Twin Charged jbody
blue car (R.I.P) - 240whp @7psi..
silver car - 305whp 315lbs.tq @15psi (91 Octane) or 420whp & 425lbs.TQ @20psi (94 octane+Alcohol Injection)
All dynos run on a Mustang dyno
Quote:
......but in order to do it the way you are describing you would have to have a centrifugal type sc
Yeah I was refering to a centrifugal charger
The links above dont work for me.........
just a thought to ponder........
is there any possibility of hooking a charge pipe up to the manifold? in-between the s/c and the head?
If i were to do it, I would do it that way you guys described....i was just wonder if this would be possible.
not really cause there is literally a half an inch room between the front of the charger and the front support thingy....
2000 Camaro V6.
| SLP Loudmouth | CAI Intake | HID's |
also you would have to have something seal up the charge pipe or the boost from the s/c will go back out the turbo charge pipe
Scarab, what issue was that in? I have it, but cant find it.......
Jake (GreenZ) just sent me some pics of a twin charged STI...... that is pimp.
SPD RCR Z -
'02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT -
'04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI -
'78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap
SpeedRacerZ wrote:Scarab, what issue was that in? I have it, but cant find it.......
Jake (GreenZ) just sent me some pics of a twin charged STI...... that is pimp.
white , silver , oh well i had my sunglasses on and it was 110 out that day
that is the sti i was refering to
SpeedRacerZ wrote:Scarab, what issue was that in? I have it, but cant find it.......
Jake (GreenZ) just sent me some pics of a twin charged STI...... that is pimp.
Its the Technobabble column (Dave Coleman rules!) in the issue with the Twini and the turbo'd Lotus Elise on the Cover. Can't miss it if you see it, i just can't find the damn issue at all. Its not on their site, they only have technobabble from 98-03, or i'd just post the link.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
I was thinking about this a lot latley and I found a problem with teh hole twin charging thing: If you run a pipe from the superchargers output to the turbos intake it will spool the turbo faster liek you all ahve said, but once you reach that point were the supercharger shuts off and you run just off teh turbo, the turbo will be really restricted cause to get air into the turbo it has to suck the air through the SC first, so once the SC is shut of your pretty much cutting of the turbo from any air into teh intake side of it. You would need to somehow have it set so when the SC shuts off the charge pipe from the SC to the turbo will have to be open somehow to the atmosphere so teh turbo can suck air.
I hope that made sence, I also dont know much about how the roots type SC works so maybe you covered this prob and I missed it but I'm doing this with a centrifugal charger caus eI know how they work and I'm lost when it comes to anything else, lol
