I've been into turbo's for some time. I have a very fast DSM atm and my girl has a 99 sunfire that is just so doggie at 75 mph I can't stand to even be in the car. So I've decided to turbo her car. Here are my goals:
1. Turbo to reach full spool by 4.5K RPM
2. Running 18-20 PSI on pump 35-40 PSI on C16 (if it ever even see's the strip)
3. 300-350 WHP
I'm new to this forum and I'm sure to get flamed for this but I'm going to ask anyways. I have a few questions that are related to the 2.2 and 2.4L.
1. What is the highest I can rev the stock bottom end with uppgraded valve springs and retainers?
2. How much HP can the stock crank handle before I need to have a forged unit?
3. Are their any sites that have the ECU disassembled so I can try to use the stock ECU and do my own code mods?
I'm looking to still be able to pass smog if need be and so I don't really want to build a standalone EMS for it. Smog techs plug into OBD II here and a MSnS EMS just won't work for that. I do plan on rebuilding the long block or getting a 2.2 ECOTEC. Here are the parts I was thinking of getting if the stock crank can handle 400 HP.
1. Mitsu turbine housing with a HX-35 turbo. (off my Talon. I'm going full T-4 HX-40 so I figured it would be best for the J as it spools at 3800 RPM @ 25 PSI on my 2.0)
2. 38mm external wastegate (Tial)
3. 850 cc injectors
4. Walbro 255 FP
5. Aeromotive AFPR
6. 2.2 HO Intake Mani
7. Weisco 9:1 pistons
8. Either scat or eagle Rods
9. dual valve springs with Ti retainers.
10. WB O2
11. O-Ringed Head (stainless)
12. A good gasket set of course with head studs and mainstuds and girdle if needed.
13. 3" turbo back exhaust
14. Hugh FMIC
15. GF likes to look of the Vader Body kit. I prefer the Drift and am in the process of convincing her she likes it as well. LoL.
This is all presuming I can tune with the stock ECU. I've thought about getting a ECU out of a Turbo Sunbird or Cyclone/Typhoon as I already have the stuff to get into those and tune. I would just have to build a harness adapter for it. It's going to be going through an auto tranny. I haven't been able to find a shift kit or clutch kit for it yet, but that is something that I'm looking to find as well. Equal length half shafts are also something I'm interested in if they are out their. If not I might just have to fad one up.
Anyways. I mainly need to know about the stock crank and what I can handle. I don't want more than 350 WHP as tire spin will just be horendous. The car just needs to go when I hit the go pedel at 75 mph.
I've turboed N/A cars before and don't like them that much. Did a turbo on a Celica GT that put down 192 HP @ 6 PSI on the dyno. Car just didn't like all the piggyback PFC all that much as when we needed more fuel for 9 PSI fuel cut became an issue.
Any advise you all might have is duely appreacated. I'm also ready for some flames.
Maglin
92 Talon TSI AWD Turbo (HX-35 @ 25 PSI on Pump) 400 AWHP
99 Sunfire (Mostly stock, Lowered w/wheels) Soon to see boost.
ehh i wouldnt plan on putting more than 15 PSI though it really, even that will make you more than happy. As of right now there is no way of tuning our ECUs without a piggyback. But HPtuners is releasing software within the next month that will change all that. Honestly, it looks like your going a little overboard. A stock 2.4L will make around 200HP at 5 PSI. Which is more than enough to make it a mid 14 second car. Skillz has a fully built 2.4L running 6 PSI i think, and hes making 255 WHP and runs mid 13's.
2006 Black Cobalt SS Supercharged G85
13.91@102.77
There's a guy in Quebec who has dumped about 25k (30k CAD)under the hood with goals to reach 500 whp in his 97 2.2 ohv sunfire. The engine and trans are built with the best components and he has the AEM standalone. Even then, I spoke to the shop who is doing the job and they said he isn't going to make much more than 350 whp or else it will go up in smoke. And the shop are extremely experienced with turbos.
15.891 @ 88 mph stock, still getting @!#$ty launches...
DanteMustDie wrote:There's a guy in Quebec who has dumped about 25k (30k CAD)under the hood with goals to reach 500 whp in his 97 2.2 ohv sunfire.
I doubt that he spent that much money on a motor and transmission. If he did, I hope they used some KY. Are you talking about Luc with a black Sunfire?
275hp & 306tq - 1999 2.2 ohv
13.2 @ 108 mph
-1996 2.4 liter + Turbo + Built motor + Torco + More boost = Lots o' Power
-2000 Mustang GT + 2004 Cobra motor, Whipple 2.3 supercharger,
built rear-end,Dodge Viper spec T56 6 speed, bolt-ons = wheelies at the track!!!!!
I think he is talking about Luc
And that shop sounds full of @!#$ then
My builder said I will get 400 easily, and he's about the best the DC area has to offer
................Which car will hit 400 whp first???................
you got it adler, that's him. He did drop all that money on his engine, I can find the montrealracing.com thread for you if you want. The shop where they work on his car is just a few mles from where I live. It's an awesome car BTW
15.891 @ 88 mph stock, still getting @!#$ty launches...
speak to Luc if you think this shop is full of @!#$, I doubt he will say that. He has nothing but good things to say about them.
15.891 @ 88 mph stock, still getting @!#$ty launches...
Ok then. How much power can I put to the stock rods/crank? If they can handle 350 HP then I'll be satisfied with just shot peening/polishing the rods and do a polish on the crank. I would like to stay away from forged Pistons cause this is my GF's car and I know she is always in a hurry and won't let it warm up before going anywhere. I'm not to sure where I can get pistons for the 2.4 that can handle the boost I want to run (heat wise).
For the ECU I might just go with the MegaSquirt. It's superior to a lot of other stand alones. I just found a good smog guy that can pass any car of mine.
It just cost's me an extra $100 a year per car.
When your talking stock bottom end yes 6-9 PSI is probably going to be very satisfing. (sp) But I'm going to lower the CR to 9-9.5:1. I'm not to sure what it is stock yet. I'm going to look at OnDemand and see what the stock CR is.
I don't see why you couldn't put out more than 350 HP to the wheels with a fully built motor. Is the Head design so bad that it just won't flow much past the 350 HP mark? Would it be a wiser choice to go with the EcoTec motor? I was planing on going Eco but have since decided it's a lot easier to just run the 2.4L. Would cut down on a lot of work for me. If I have to I can just get the 2.4 head hogged out by a good head shop that knows what they are doing. I know the 4G63 DHOC head is a bad ass head from the factory. I'm pushing 400 HP currently with my STOCK bottom end. It's why I can't see not being able to get to 350 with the J's 2.4L. I'm also going to get a cam(s) for it as well. Their has to be some turbo grinds out their for it. If not I'll call Comp and have some made for me.
This used to be a show car that won quite a few local shows. Interior is fulley tweeded in purple with spiderweb'd inlays. It's got the worst chop up racing springs on it with stock struts, so currently it feels like a go-kart. I'm planing on raising it to about 1.5" lower than stock with some E Pro Kit's and Koni adjustable struts and GC coil overs. I figure expenses wise if I can kept the crank and rods about $2,000 for the turbo install. That is including fuel upgrads and exhaust mani and FMIC. Then about another $1,000 for the suspension and another 1K for the body kit and paint.
I just wanted to pass it across you all as you know way more than I do about the J bodys. The ECU was actually the least of my worries as I can just throw a stand alone in for abour $350-400 w/sensors. Then I have the ability to datalog everything. I refuse to piggyback. Especially on a orignall N/A car.
Maglin
92 Talon TSI AWD Turbo (HX-35 @ 25 PSI on Pump) 400 AWHP
99 Sunfire (Mostly stock, Lowered w/wheels) Soon to see boost.
BTW sorry I misread your post. When you said 99 sunfire, I thought it had the 2.2. Shoulda read the post title lol. Good luck in your build, and a properly built 2.4 can surely take a lot more abuse than a 2.2
15.891 @ 88 mph stock, still getting @!#$ty launches...
DanteMustDie wrote:you got it adler, that's him. He did drop all that money on his engine, I can find the montrealracing.com thread for you if you want. The shop where they work on his car is just a few mles from where I live. It's an awesome car BTW
275hp & 306tq - 1999 2.2 ohv
13.2 @ 108 mph
-1996 2.4 liter + Turbo + Built motor + Torco + More boost = Lots o' Power
-2000 Mustang GT + 2004 Cobra motor, Whipple 2.3 supercharger,
built rear-end,Dodge Viper spec T56 6 speed, bolt-ons = wheelies at the track!!!!!
Originally Posted by Luc:
Just so you know, engine project alone is about 30K$
15.891 @ 88 mph stock, still getting @!#$ty launches...
I hope that he is exaggerating, because $30K for motor, trans, turbo, axles, and the AEM is rediculous.
If not...
275hp & 306tq - 1999 2.2 ohv
13.2 @ 108 mph
-1996 2.4 liter + Turbo + Built motor + Torco + More boost = Lots o' Power
-2000 Mustang GT + 2004 Cobra motor, Whipple 2.3 supercharger,
built rear-end,Dodge Viper spec T56 6 speed, bolt-ons = wheelies at the track!!!!!
his axles alone cost him 1200 $ US. I'm really curious as to why such a perfectly built motor wouldn't be able hold 500 whp. There's like nothing stock anymore under his hood.
15.891 @ 88 mph stock, still getting @!#$ty launches...
Stock cr is 9.5:1 for the 2.4l. the crank is good to 350hp but the rods go at 250hp or so i've read.
DanteMustDie wrote:his axles alone cost him 1200 $ US. I'm really curious as to why such a perfectly built motor wouldn't be able hold 500 whp. There's like nothing stock anymore under his hood.
I know how much is axles cost, I have the same ones. Maybe the shop is saying that because they do not know of anyone making that kind of power out of that motor. Anything can happen to a motor at a certain power level....kind of like with the Ford 5.0 blocks cracking around 500ish horsepower.
275hp & 306tq - 1999 2.2 ohv
13.2 @ 108 mph
-1996 2.4 liter + Turbo + Built motor + Torco + More boost = Lots o' Power
-2000 Mustang GT + 2004 Cobra motor, Whipple 2.3 supercharger,
built rear-end,Dodge Viper spec T56 6 speed, bolt-ons = wheelies at the track!!!!!
jpo96sungt wrote:Stock cr is 9.5:1 for the 2.4l. the crank is good to 350hp but the rods go at 250hp or so i've read.
The 2.4 crank is good for ATLEAST 400hp & 400 torque.
275hp & 306tq - 1999 2.2 ohv
13.2 @ 108 mph
-1996 2.4 liter + Turbo + Built motor + Torco + More boost = Lots o' Power
-2000 Mustang GT + 2004 Cobra motor, Whipple 2.3 supercharger,
built rear-end,Dodge Viper spec T56 6 speed, bolt-ons = wheelies at the track!!!!!
Thanks for that info. So At least Rods are in order. I'm planning on at least a 8.5K rev limit. That will give half the rpm band for boosted power. I'm going to have to get a tranny @!#$ programmer or crack into the tranny code to be able to change the shift points to like 5K. What pistons are good for boosted 2.4's? I know that certain manufactures have crappy pistons for certain motors and great pistons for others. JE comes to mind for that one.
Maglin
92 Talon TSI AWD Turbo (HX-35 @ 25 PSI on Pump) 400 AWHP
99 Sunfire (Mostly stock, Lowered w/wheels) Soon to see boost.
