Well, I have done some homework on how to read and understand turbo compressor maps but I still have some issues. I figured out all my data, corrected CFM per RPM, boost pressure values, converted all that stuff to lbs/min flow ratings, etc. So far, I have only come up with 2 turbos that are anything remotely close to what I want, the T3 60 and the T3 Super 60. I graphed out everything on the compresser maps that I found on the net The highest boost pressure that I can run while keeping the turbo in some kind of efficiency is around 18 PSI. This won't do! For street driving, it will be fine, I'll probably end up running about 15-17PSI but when I take it to the track I want to run full out 25 PSI. However, the situation that I will be running into is the fact that at 25 PSI the efficiency is crap, and once I start to get to about roughly 5000 RPM the number goes off the chart and won't do any good(too much heat buildup). Selecting a bigger turbo and comparing the turbo map so that at 25 PSI @ 6000 RPM(my selected redline limit) it will have some type of efficiency, the spool up time will be tremendous. No boost until about 3500 RPM. That won't do either. So what am I to do? Am I going about this all wrong? The engine that I have is a 2.2L Any input would be most appreciated. Thanks for your time, Paul Moore
Trying to become the most modded out N/A 2nd gen sunbird 4 cylinder on the org with a..... screw that, I'm going turbo!!!
2.Slow OHC I4
Ported cylinder head, intake and exhaust
Relocated IAT with a custom WAI with a 6x9 K&N conical filter
All this, and I still can't go fast.............yet!!
Ahem... may I introduce Mr Ball Bearing Turbo. Spools like a baby. Provides top end of a BIG single turbo setup. DO IT.
I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.
Spotabee Racing wrote:Ahem... may I introduce Mr Ball Bearing Turbo. Spools like a baby. Provides top end of a BIG single turbo setup. DO IT.
So by using a ball bearing style T3 I could get the same effective spool up time plus better efficiency at higer boost levels? How is this possible?
Trying to become the most modded out N/A 2nd gen sunbird 4 cylinder on the org with a..... screw that, I'm going turbo!!!
2.Slow OHC I4
Ported cylinder head, intake and exhaust
Relocated IAT with a custom WAI with a 6x9 K&N conical filter
All this, and I still can't go fast.............yet!!
It sounds like you have really done your research! But the painful truth is what you just posted about. if you want effiecent high cfm boost you will have to deal with excessve lag. If you want more power on the lower end then top end will suffer. Alot of people push turbos well beyond their effiecenty range and try to make up for it some with good intercooling. (with good results) Look into the turbo k car guys, they push as much as 30 psi on stock turbos! Its not because theres anything special about the turbos (little t3's & mitsu's) Its good intercooling and lots of fuel. You need to ask yourself what this car being built for? the street or the track? and witch is more important? go from there
99 Turbo Sunfire GT | Ram 2500 | International Rollback | Mr Hanky the Suburban
Well, I did some more digging and I think that I found one that might work. It is a Garrett GT30R. Let's see if the compressor map will load....
Now, once I use this same map and plot in what my boost pressures should be at the 3000, 4000, 5000, and 6000 RPM intervals would be, I come up with this....
My compressor map points
Even though the turbo doesn't start to make boost until right around 3000 RPM, it does have SOME efficiency, and the efficiency gets better as the RPM's increase. Couple that with the fact that I will be using an automatic seeing as how the boost will stay on all the time during upshifts, I think that this is a good choice.
Trying to become the most modded out N/A 2nd gen sunbird 4 cylinder on the org with a..... screw that, I'm going turbo!!!
2.Slow OHC I4
Ported cylinder head, intake and exhaust
Relocated IAT with a custom WAI with a 6x9 K&N conical filter
All this, and I still can't go fast.............yet!!
Paul Moore wrote:Spotabee Racing wrote:Ahem... may I introduce Mr Ball Bearing Turbo. Spools like a baby. Provides top end of a BIG single turbo setup. DO IT.
So by using a ball bearing style T3 I could get the same effective spool up time plus better efficiency at higer boost levels? How is this possible?
the ball bearing eliminates a lot of... how do i say it... resistance basically. for example, one of our local shops, has a 1997 Toyota Supra. 3.2L JUN Stroker motor, 84mm dual bearing turbo. The turbo spools at basically anything above idle. And think about how large an 84mm compressor housing is. That turbo spools constantly reaching FULL BOOST at 2200 rpm all the way up to 8k. 40 psi.
I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.
Yeah, but that was one of the problems that I ran into as well. The Supra is an inlne 6 and with a stroker motor to boot. The turbo spooling is directly related to the amount of airflow at said boost levels. On my little 2.2L 4 cylinder engine at 3000 RPM, I am JUST getting enough airflow to start making boost, at least that is what the compressor map is telling me. So from idle, all the way up to 3000 RPM's the turbo is spooling up. Once boost kicks in, it should do so at the 12 PSI mark and then climb all the way up to 25 PSI once I hit 6 grand.
I do understand how the ball bearing aspect will decrease frictional resistances in the assembly but it still should have an airflow requirement to operate. That would be like taking a 3 cylinder geo metro engine and using the turbo from that Supra. Do you think that it would still spool up just off of idle? Probably not, because there in unsufficient airflow to allow it. I know that what I want to do is going to be difficult because I want the best of both worlds. I am willing to sacrifice a little low end. Like shifted said, I could always use a small shot of NO2 to help the engine build up more cylinder pressures to aid the spooling of the turbo. At the track, the lack of boost at launch will help keep traction at maximum. Once on the street though, with the boost turned down to 18 PSI, the turbo will hit peak efficiency at the 6000 RPM mark. That sound good to me.
Trying to become the most modded out N/A 2nd gen sunbird 4 cylinder on the org with a..... screw that, I'm going turbo!!!
2.Slow OHC I4
Ported cylinder head, intake and exhaust
Relocated IAT with a custom WAI with a 6x9 K&N conical filter
All this, and I still can't go fast.............yet!!
he's right. you COULD use like a 50 shot to help spool that turbo.
I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.
