Ok guys, here is my long story. Sorry.
Now as some of you know I just got my Eco Turboed and I am running Thunderbird 370cc injectors on a 2002 Eco.
Here is the problem.
The other day me and my boy took my car for a spin while it was somewhat cold with those injectors 12:1 FMU and 6 PSI and the car ran pretty slugish.
May I mention that am running stock Ecotec fuel pressur BTW.
At 6 PSI the EGT's were around 1300 in 3rd gear at 6K.
Took it for a spin again with a 8:1 FMU and after it cooled off and same gear same RPM's it was at about 1350 or so.
So I figured I am going to run 8 psi now with the 8:1 and same gear, same revs, cool motor put out about 1400 EGT's.
I was happy with it even tho I wanted 10 psi, but I figured I would let the motor get used to it.
Now, the other day I was on my way to work and I was on the interstate, when we were messing with the car I didn't even take into consideration that the engine was cool and under operating temperature,this time with hot motor I topped out 3rd at about 1450(higher engine temp.) and I hit 4th at 4K and started laying into it when the EGT's shot to about 1500-1550 in like 3 seconds.
I mean I didn't even get a chance to get to like 4.5K.
So I figured since the injectors are pretty big it might be afterburn so yesterday I drop the disk in the FMU to 6:1, it was raining so I waited till today.
Going to work again and the EGT's were very pretty much the same, but they got there a lot faster. So I came to conclusion that 6:1 in not enough fuel for 8 psi. They could have gone higher, but I step off past 1500.
Now I just dropped the spring down to 6 psi and I left the 6:1 disk in the FMU and in 3rd it did barely climb at all past like 1300.
I am going to check 4th tomorrow on the interstate, but I am wondering, what kinda crap is this??
Are 370's not enough to handle 8 psi off a T3/T04E??
If it gets too high with this 6:1 I am going to try 8;1. Also the reason I want to sort out the 4th gear is because I want to dyno the car in 4th next time I am out so that way I don't have to take up my friends dyno with some bull.
I was also told that 370's will sufficiently only support about 8 psi on my Turbo, if that.
So am I being fed some crap by Turbo shops and my car or is this really true??
Sorry for the long post, but I want to stay in 1400 range EGT's at WOT full boost, even if I am running rich, I just feel good at that point.
Thanks
Best time:"""11.946""" @ 114.73 mph @17psi 1.83--60"
11 second daily driver!!!!
Race Related 727-561-9440
Shop of choice for your 11 second J body!
Also, built bottom end and or top end LSJ and L61's available.
13's
----12's
----11's
----10's
sound right. 370cc injectors = 225hp
140 hp + 8psi(at 12hp) = 236hp
You're in the red zone. The injector will be running at 100%. if you run 225hp with those injecteur they will have a duyty cycle of 80%.
Gilles
2.3 Ho
also if you want to know what injector you need
Injector selection
You'll know what you need.
Gilles
2.3 Ho
Damn man so my FMU doesn't really do anything for me of what??
Lets say I get about (10hp) so 60 at 6 psi. so about 200 @ 6 psi with 100% duty.
With that BSFC set at .6 for FI engines I am at 315cc.
Or let say it is at 210 @ 90% it is 367cc.
Man I thought these injectors can handle something.
Also, how do you measure the duty cycle?? It has nothing to do with the fuel pressure I know that one.
But I am guesstimating at 6 psi I am at about 80 psi.
Thanks man
BTW Mfk-223, you are comparing 225 and 236 HP, so only 11hp will put me over the edge?? That sucks.
Best time:"""11.946""" @ 114.73 mph @17psi 1.83--60"
11 second daily driver!!!!
Race Related 727-561-9440
Shop of choice for your 11 second J body!
Also, built bottom end and or top end LSJ and L61's available.
13's
----12's
----11's
----10's
Ok, first you need to get a wideband on it so you can see what your air/fuel is for your car. it is different for every car. Your 1500 might be right for your set-up. Doubtful, but might. That will telly ou if you have enough fuel. As for the FMU, the FMU gives you fuel pressure. Do you know what the stock fuel pressure is for the Ecotec? What disk do you have for your FMU?
FU Tuning
honestly, you can't boost nicely with a FMU. with the e-manage, you can adjust pulse frequencies and such, giving as much fuel as you want with stock pressure. it is more expensive, but turboing a car isn't cheap. my .02 cents.
John stock Eco fuel pressure is 50 idle 60 WOT and I am running 6:1 right now with those injectors.
I am wondering what is our duty cycle set at in J's and can we bring it up by simply raising the fuel pressure??
I know it is expensive.
Best time:"""11.946""" @ 114.73 mph @17psi 1.83--60"
11 second daily driver!!!!
Race Related 727-561-9440
Shop of choice for your 11 second J body!
Also, built bottom end and or top end LSJ and L61's available.
13's
----12's
----11's
----10's
fuel pressure is 50 at idle , and 60 at wide open throttle
my friend has 32lbs injectors , and at 8-9 psi he is still rich at wdie open , his wide a/f gauge goes off scale at 11:1 , and it is off scale then will come up just over 11:1
he doesnt have a exhaust temp , so i cant tell you what his is
the exhaust temp will vary on all cars and depending where you put the probe at
and he has the hahn kit , with the fpr/fmu , base fuel pressure is around 25 psi at idle , and around 90 under boost
those injector calculations arent taking into account that the FMu raised fuel pressure, and this changed its flow rating.
sun cavi, you need to put in the higher rate disk into your fmu. you are raising the boost levels, and leaning it out at the same time during your testing.
.
<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/speedvisioncavalier"><img src="http://www.j-body.org/registry/speedvisioncavalier/new%20sig.jpg"> </a><img src="http://www.precizion.org/animatedz.gif">
"What are we going to do tonight?"
"The same thing we do every night, try to make the SVC go faster!"
so in acutallity suncavi is probly running rich oinly because of the high egt's?
I will have a wideband and no egt gauge so is it safe to say as long as I am running a good af or maybe a little rich I will be ok?
LE61T PTE6262 Powered 
if he runs those EGT hot, its because he ISNT rich. he is getting lean.
.
<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/speedvisioncavalier"><img src="http://www.j-body.org/registry/speedvisioncavalier/new%20sig.jpg"> </a><img src="http://www.precizion.org/animatedz.gif">
"What are we going to do tonight?"
"The same thing we do every night, try to make the SVC go faster!"
no what I am saying is if I am running a great af and I am seeing 1500 egt will I be ok?
LE61T PTE6262 Powered
im gonna go out and say your running to rich
thing is them injectors you have are rated at 370cc @38 so if your running them at 50psi there well over 400cc injectors so your car is gonna run like crap in all ranges even with your fmu, you have to understand that you have to properly set up your fuel mods you cant just strap on a fmu and set it to 12:1 and thing ehhh i think thats enough fuel for 6 psi, i dunno about you but i dont think thats a safe bet lol
with your egt you could always lean out the mix and watch the temps go up and then once you start leaning out it will go back to lower temps so you wanna get it before it stops dipping back down in temps
also how the heck are you even running them injectors at idle with out a afpr your car must be running like crap
one more thing as far as i knew the stock fuel pressure was 43.5 and once you intall a larger pump like the blazer pump it shoots to 50psi
get a afpr and a safc and bring that sucker to a dyno gee
quickBOOSTEDecotec wrote:no what I am saying is if I am running a great af and I am seeing 1500 egt will I be ok?
Yes as long as the air/fuel mixture is good.
You need a adjustable FMU with a valve. That is what the Reaper has just turn the knob and go.
FU Tuning
yeah I know its not the best but I have different discs like suncavi has, I will try and get an adjustable one sooner then later
LE61T PTE6262 Powered
He-he, get it to the dyno well I want to.
I just took it with a 12:1 disk and the EGT's came up to like 1400 and stayed there the whole 4th gear.
I also got the logger and it is showing 39 degrees of timing advance at some points, isn't that a little too damn much??
Thanks guys.
Best time:"""11.946""" @ 114.73 mph @17psi 1.83--60"
11 second daily driver!!!!
Race Related 727-561-9440
Shop of choice for your 11 second J body!
Also, built bottom end and or top end LSJ and L61's available.
13's
----12's
----11's
----10's
awesome so you added fuel at 8psi and the egt's fell through 4th gear awesome
LE61T PTE6262 Powered
SunCavi_L61T3/T04E wrote:He-he, get it to the dyno well I want to.
I just took it with a 12:1 disk and the EGT's came up to like 1400 and stayed there the whole 4th gear.
I also got the logger and it is showing 39 degrees of timing advance at some points, isn't that a little too damn much??
Thanks guys.
Timing advance, when is it showing that much? normally under lean, or detonation it will have timing retard.
FU Tuning
i think he means retard not other wise im sure his engine wouldnt be alive right now if that was the case
Acctually Phil I correct myself, I just got it right on the interstate, at 8PSI and 8:1 disk.
See if I just hit it to about 5-6 psi it will go up the EGT's, but if I squeeze it all the way to 8 PSI the EGT's stay at 1400. YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEI.
I can run 8 PSI without worries.
John, that is 22-24 advance most of the RPM's and when at WOT it goes down to 15.5-16.5.
Orange yes I mean timing ADVANCE.
BTW I ran a 14.7 at 97 mph, and the 60 foot was horrible like 2.5 or something, and my boy ran a 13.48 at 104 mph in the GS-X with a 16G and 20 psi.
So since the traction is my issue badly as you all can see I decided to run him for the hell of it on the highway on the way home.
Well lets say from 60-110 mph I had a front bumper on him.
Granted that AWD is bad off a roll, I know the damn care is really close if not in high 13's right now if I can hook.
Next is a 10 psi spring.
I guess I just needed that little edge that injectors give from 6-8 psi cause like I said if I hit it and hol it at 5-6 psi it gets hot, if I hit it all the way to 8 it stays so........ That is about it, well next it dyno too.
Well that is about it guys.
Best time:"""11.946""" @ 114.73 mph @17psi 1.83--60"
11 second daily driver!!!!
Race Related 727-561-9440
Shop of choice for your 11 second J body!
Also, built bottom end and or top end LSJ and L61's available.
13's
----12's
----11's
----10's
Yeah launching is a be-atch. I normally got a high 2.2 to mid 2.3. One run last year i spun so bad off the line i got a mid 2.4 60ft and rolled through the traps at 105.85 mph(And that was only 8psi with last years times BTW). Can wait until 18+psi. Now if i can get that mph with a good launch should be down in the 13.30 area. But anyways keep at it and you will get all the bugs worked out. Good luck with it and make sure you post when you get back from the dyno
If your interested in custom aluminum tilt wheel levers hit me up!
I'm running the hahn kit, should be dynoing tomorrow (well today, saturday).
SunCavi_L61T3/T04E wrote:Acctually Phil I correct myself, I just got it right on the interstate, at 8PSI and 8:1 disk.
See if I just hit it to about 5-6 psi it will go up the EGT's, but if I squeeze it all the way to 8 PSI the EGT's stay at 1400. YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEI.
I can run 8 PSI without worries.
John, that is 22-24 advance most of the RPM's and when at WOT it goes down to 15.5-16.5.
Orange yes I mean timing ADVANCE.
BTW I ran a 14.7 at 97 mph, and the 60 foot was horrible like 2.5 or something, and my boy ran a 13.48 at 104 mph in the GS-X with a 16G and 20 psi.
So since the traction is my issue badly as you all can see I decided to run him for the hell of it on the highway on the way home.
Well lets say from 60-110 mph I had a front bumper on him.
Granted that AWD is bad off a roll, I know the damn care is really close if not in high 13's right now if I can hook.
Next is a 10 psi spring.
I guess I just needed that little edge that injectors give from 6-8 psi cause like I said if I hit it and hol it at 5-6 psi it gets hot, if I hit it all the way to 8 it stays so........ That is about it, well next it dyno too.
Well that is about it guys.
As for the timing advance that is about tight. My 2.4 is about the same. Never looked at the Ecotec info. As long as you still have some timing advance you should be ok, when it starts taking it all away I would be worried. You still need to dyno it, and get a air/fuel reading.
The reason for the high EGT's under partial throttle is because you are getting boost but not full map settings. Reaper is the same. You just need ot do WOT.
Josh ran a 14.4 or 14.5 @96mph at 7psi when his car was first turboed. So you are close. I would say you are pushing right at 200 WHP.
FU Tuning
That is what I am thinking too right about that.
Thanks guys, I am gonna see if I can get some more kills tonight, I am going SRT-4 hunting on the bridge.
lol
Best time:"""11.946""" @ 114.73 mph @17psi 1.83--60"
11 second daily driver!!!!
Race Related 727-561-9440
Shop of choice for your 11 second J body!
Also, built bottom end and or top end LSJ and L61's available.
13's
----12's
----11's
----10's
