looking to supercharge my 05 cavalier....ive done some research and seems to be pretty simple, wanting to put out close to 300 hp....is this possible without internal work??? i want too throw cams in it, prolly valve springs while im at it, i found 80 lbs injectors, and i dont plan on gm flashing my ecu, looking to do the real deal on this car. would axles and tranny hold??? guessin solid motor mounts would prolly be beneficial too. help me out.
thanks
300whp is possible, though the gm build book suggests that you upgrade the rod in the l61 eco at 250hp roughly. Your going to need to consider some head work, cams, and upgraded springs. Fighting heat developed by the blower will be your biggest issue. The stock axles are fine as well, many members are 300+ and some are 500 plus on stock axles. Wheel hop is what kills them. Make sure you upgrade your intank fuel pump, I've been on the racetronix f body pump and harness upgrade for over 2 years with great success.
I'm actually selling my complete setup if your interested. It's been tuned by Ryan (QWK LN2) @ P&P Tuning, and with the racetronix pump n harness my injector duty cycle is mid to high 30's on 42 lb/HR injectors. My motor was 100% stock from cams to crank when I dyno'd the numbers in my sig. Details on my setup are in the link above my sig. Feel free to pm me any questions you might have.
Unless you're going with a TVS, you won't be making 300hp...not on an m62, even with cams. I think the only way you would maybe get to 300 is going with a higher compression build, along with some major cooling mods as you'll need to pulley down a few sizes and will be generating some major heat. And if you do upgrade cams, you will NEED to upgrade valvesprings as well. The Supertech 78lb kit is a popular choice with ecotecs.
Transmission should be fine, though depending on how hard it's gonna be abused. If your making high rpm hard launches, it's going to be a different story. Same with axles..hard launches will take their toll rather quickly.
Solid or poly mounts (motor and trans) would be in your best interest. You're going to want to get as much of the power to the ground as possible. That being said, having a solid quality suspension is going to help you alot too. Regardless of how much power a motor can make, you need the right supporting mods to utilize that power.
Evil, Airtonics put 297whp down on his eco with the mp62. He had cams n headwork done. Iirc he also had meth and Vince now has his old motor. I don't know if he had stock compression on it or not though.
JUCNBST wrote:Evil, Airtonics put 297whp down on his eco with the mp62. He had cams n headwork done. Iirc he also had meth and Vince now has his old motor. I don't know if he had stock compression on it or not though.
I didn't realize airtonics was quite that high, I stand corrected lol. Let me rephrase then, to the OP, it's not gonna be simple getting to 300 on the m62. Supporting mods will make or break it.
Like Jucnbst said, heat is gonna be the major battle. I'd start right off the bat with a dual pass endplate, a h/e with a BIG dual pass core (the zzp s3 is a very effective and cost friendly choice), and meth. Phenolic spacers would be a benefit to you as well. I know this past summer, it only took one hard pull to redline to jump my IATs close to 150*, where we have the tune set to pull timing..this was with a stock endplate and cobra h/e on a 3.1" pulley. IMO you'll need to go smaller in pulley size (2.9 maybe even 2.8) which means spinning the rotors faster which means tons more heat and lots of heat soak. I personally am expecting to now see much cooler temps with the dual pass, zzp h/e, and spacer.
Cams will definitely help you as well, especially if you pick a grind that is effective in the mid-upper powerband. Head work will definitely be worth the money spent as well.
If you end up going the route of building the motor, one option is ZZP. Depending on your budget, they make a really nice block with a reinforced girdle that handle some serious abuse. Pricey, but worth every penny.
I spent some time on youtube and couldn't find his dyno vid from the 08 or 09 bash. but this is whats in his profile for his build.
Engine:
Eagle Rods
Wiseco pistons .020 over
Removed balance shafts
Patriot Stage II CNC ported head
Comp cams Street/strip HighRPM 222/224 duration 456/453 lift
Si valves
PSI 1530ML valve springs
Trick Titanium retainers
GM adjustable cam gears
Arp head studs
Racetronix 255lph fuel pump
550cc RC injectors
HP Tuners
Intercooled Eaton M62 Supercharger
Dual pass intercooler mod
water/meth injection
Pulleyboys quickchange hub (2.8 pulley)
ZZperformance adjustable tensioner bracket
-------------------------------------------------
EVILution (KGM Godfather) wrote:
Solid or poly mounts (motor and trans) would be in your best interest. You're going to want to get as much of the power to the ground as possible. That being said, having a solid quality suspension is going to help you alot too. Regardless of how much power a motor can make, you need the right supporting mods to utilize that power.
Most members here will preach about the benefits of motor mounts, I will 100% agree. Your stock mounts if worn wouldn't help and should be replaced.
Where I differ from most members is to replace them with new STOCK mounts. Getting power to the ground with stock mounts is no big deal. I have proven this, aftermarket mounts are not necessary.
neither is a solid quality suspension. But for the sake of arguing, I will agree with the rest of the group and say " having a solid quality suspension is going to help you alot"
jucnbst's setup has been proven, not to mention the technical support from him after you buy the kit.
He knows every nut and bolt of that kit.
mann you guys seem to really know your stuff! thanks for all the info and i am on somewhat on a budget hoping to do this for around 2500 dollars. i guess to be more realistic ill have to be satisfied with 250 hp, seems i could achieve that.
JUSNBST: would your kit cover almost everything to set my car up??? if so i may be interested, alittle unfamiliar with this ice box you talked about is that jus another cooling system for the supercharger along with the heat exchanger??
Yeah I just got a s/c setup myself for my 04 cavy, and Im curious about the icebox. IIRC its more for track days when you want to quickly cool your components down before you run again.
Im also confused in the comment about an intercooled M62, where I thought you 'couldnt' IC a Roots charger? Maybe Im all wet on this, but thats what I thought I saw in the boost FAQs here or on eco.
I really need a good 'parts list' thats complete, and they all seem to be slightly different. My goal before doing any installation is cooling, so the dual pass end plate and a good h/e setup or possibly IC if possible is important.
I have seen his kit on here for a while, and it appears to literally have EVERYTHING you need, including the ECU programmed for a 5spd 04 cavy if im not mistaken lol..if i had the money...i would buy it just to save the hassel of buying everything seperate, but i got an 'almost' complete kit for $500
04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.
Joe Mercurio wrote:mann you guys seem to really know your stuff! thanks for all the info and i am on somewhat on a budget hoping to do this for around 2500 dollars. i guess to be more realistic ill have to be satisfied with 250 hp, seems i could achieve that.
You mind find that 250 is plenty depending on your use. 250 in a car as light as ours actually moves pretty well. I haven't dyno'd yet since being s/c'd, but comparing my setup to others I assume I'm hitting a bit below 250, and the car still surprises people how well I pulls.
To Blu04DD, when everyone is saying intercooled, it is a heat exchanger they are talking about, not an air to air that you have the impression of. The term is just interchangeable.
And
here is your parts list down to every bolt needed.
how much boost does a 3in pully runn?? is there a chart for pulley size to boost?
I am running a 120k miles motor on a 3 inch pulley, 36 lbs/hr injectors, fuel pressure bumped to 65 static PSI, lsj pacesetter header into a 2.5 downpipes and 2.25 exhaust, intercooled with the stock cobalt plumbing and a cobra heat exchanger, and i push high 13 psi with occasional spikes to 14-15 if the weather is great. all with afr's between 11.3 and 11.7 at WOT. I have run it to 13.93 at 99.85 MPH miss shifting into second and 4th.... all this on the stock GM supercharger reflash. i do hav a lot of suspension work though.
but anywho. all my blower stuff only cost me 1900ish bucks over 2-3 years.
Joe, the kit I'm selling has everything you'd need minus the upgraded fuel pump because I'm using it for my turbo build. The ice box increases the coolant capacity alot. It was intended as use for track day when your h/e pump is wired on a switch to control how fast the ice is used up. It also has a built in drain valve so you can remove access water then add more ice for later runs. Joe I'm actually looking to get 2500 shipped with paypal fee's for my entire kit. If you don't want the ice box or one of the two heat exchangers I'd be willing to work on price.
Shoot me a pm if your serious, depending where your at I'd consider meeting up in person otherwise I got no issues shipping.
I'm in Downers Grove, IL. The size of the pulley doesn't mean x amount a boost. With resistance in the flow of air will increase the boost. For example a person on a stock exhaust might see 15psi on a 3.0 but people with a header and full exhaust and ported head might see 7 or 9. Thats why most people just say what pulley they are running. On a 3.0 I see 9psi in the summer and i. Winter I saw 11.
*I read your town wrong...just googled it and your a little south west of springfield?*
Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Thursday, January 19, 2012 6:50 PM
JUCNBST: again thanks for the info.. i already have a header and cat delete on my car along with a cat back so im sure that will lower the boost levels. i prolly wouldnt be interested in the ice box becus this car is just my daily but would like to pull on some v8's haha but would be interested in atleast one h/e, whatever one that would be more beneficial..possibly end up goin methanol injection and getting cams and valve springs so i could run more boost....along with another tune becus that would be needed correct?? by the way i am about 20 minutes from st. louis missouri jus over the bridge into IL. so hopfully pickin stuff up could help with the price.
***also from what i read you said you were completely stock from cams to crank...i hear rods are recommended around 250hp but im guessing you didnt have a problem, what do you think about that ?? thanks
I didn't have an issue with the rods, one thing to keep in mind is a quality tune makes all the differance in longevity and drivability. Your actually by one of the best tuners you could want for a jbody so thats a plus. I'd be willing to take some things out of the kit if you wanted to work on price. And your right adding cams n meth would require a retune.
As my kit sits I've supprised many different cars, quite a few mustangs and colbalts, and srt4's......
You are not going to have to worry about blowing the motor on a M62 (unless badly tuned).
people have made 300whp on stock motor with boost (Turbo).
I tuned a stock motor, stock cams, stock TB, with a ported M62 with a 2.8 puilley, ZZP S3 heat exchanger, Dualpass. header and 2.5 exhaust and made 236whp. Cams, larger TB, and some meth it would have made more. Regardless it is a fun car to drive, and the owner is happy.
FU Tuning
JUCNBST: okay well it seems everything would work out for me, also my car is at about 87000 miles so i know theres got to be plenty of life left in it, but its seems ur kit will be a great buy for me, minus a few parts.
badnewss....i dont have the money at the moment but am gettin a nice chunk of money with my income tax so unfortunately i cant tell you yes yet! i deff will be a buyer when that money comes so i guess time is all were waiting on now
( really wantt this build to happen so if you dont sell the kit by then ill be contacting you. i just wanted to start researching early to figure out where to go with this.
anybody know a good place to search for cams/valve springs for a good price??? also injectors i plan on possibly goin with 60 lbs injectors...have any links?? thanks
Thats fine man, I'm just trying to sell so I can buy a tig welder for my house. If your looking for injectors keep an eye on the classifieds here and on cobaltss.net and any other formuns you might be on. I'd be willing to bet you could push the 42's in my kit pretty far with a racetronix pump and harness because the duty cycle is so low, you don't have to worry about them yet at mid 30's.
perfect. i was thinking walbroo 255 fuel pump i think there called, i heard there pretty good but need to compare prices. i will deffinetely stay in contact with you about this kit becus like i said i really want it, most likely just install your kit then work on saving for more parts and more powerrr
one question ...your car was an 04 cavalier and mine is an 05, is your ecu jus pllug and play no differences.. therefor the tune on it would work for my car with your parts???
Most walburo's don't have a little nipple next to the outlet. That nipple is REQUIRED. No if and or butt's about it. If you use a walburo without it your run out of gass at 1/4 tank because it fills up your fump pump cup. Racetronix pump is a walburo 255 but they shave the part numbers off it so we don't know it.
Check out their page online and the W body pump is a drop in for our cars and is actually the same exact pump used in their f body kit. MY tuned computer will work on your car, it has vats disabled, 2nd o2 delete, raised prm limiter
to 7k and raised speed limiter, and Tq management disabled so you can roast the tires in 2nd all day long if you wish.
Shoot me a private message with a list of things you wouldn't want in the kit as I've got other people here who are interested in some of the extra's I've got in it.
Have a good one.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Saturday, January 21, 2012 5:23 AM
As we covered, 300 is attainable but takes more than the average idiot at CSSnet can comprehend. The blower does on fact have the airflow potential to make 400 horse, its just a matter of actually being able to make your engine work efficiently enough to get there. Ported head and custom ground cams are going to be required, so will a ported blower. Meth or e85 will be required. Custom header, maybe, intake mani work, maybe. My goal, of which timing all depended on money, is 350 wheel with the m62, on an le5 bottom end. I know what its going to take to get there. Though if I dont make it with that build I have the mp90 as a backup plan.
My plan is 1000cc injectors (in case I can get e85), LE5 bottom end with ported z(euthansia) lsj head and stock head gasket (11:1~ compression), AEM EMS4 standalone, AEM coil on plug ignition, Euthansia ported blower, custom cams of currently unknown spec, LSJ pacesetter (may become custom long tubes), 3" catback, no cat. LS1 throttle body, Meth, unless e85 magically becomes more available in this area, racetronics W body pump, AEM fpr, Bates hardend oil pump gears, LZM balance shaft delete kit, supertech valve springs (72lb? the higher lift ones), +1 oversized valves, phenolic spacer, dual pass, CX racing HE, custom made flow through tank. Software says that build make 400 hp at 7000 rpm and still climbing, but that was literally with generic v8 .425 lift cams. I'm looking at a 7k rpm redline, maybe push that up as far as 7600 rpm because thats what newt has pushed the le5 bottom end to. And if I break the bottom end then it'll get rebuilt and will be reved to 8k.
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2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
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Joe Mercurio wrote: .along with another tune becus that would be needed correct?? by the way i am about 20 minutes from st. louis missouri jus over the bridge into IL. so hopfully pickin stuff up could help with the price.
If you buy this off of Jeff, I will touch up the tune that is in the PCM he provides for a reduced fee...
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
