So, I've read all the stickies, have a very vague understand of boost. Basically, I know what a turbo is, I know what a supercharger is, I know what the difference is, I know the mechanics of both, And I understand how they work.
Heres the deal. Everyone on here does high output turbo's and huge builds.
What I want to do is run a very low boost level on a stock engine, with a simple tune. Enough to get me some extra power to the wheels. Basically, I want to do this to keep my right foot happy, while I build a motor at home and go onto bigger and better things. Basically do a baby step type of thing.
I don't want to go all out, I don't want to get too expensive. I want to shoot for MAYBE 175 horse. Like, 3 or 4 psi. Just to keep myself happy. This is daily driven. Basically I guess I kinda want to do a factory type turbo set up. Something you'de buy new with a turbo, running a small amount of boost.
So, guys, how do I complete this small goal? Turbo manifold obviously. Can i use the factory intake? Or do i need one a metal one?
Do I need an intercooler? Would it be better to have an intercooler? I'm sure it would be, but for the purpose of low boost, would it be required?
How about injectors? Can I use the factory injectors?
What kind of tuning would I be looking at? Would I even need a tune to run a low boost? I'm sure it would do nothing bu benefit the set-up, but at a low boost, again is it required?
Now I would like to add, I'm very much in favor of used parts, and cheaper item, HOWEVER, I will not sacrifice quality for price, so I will pay for to know I'm getting a good, high quality part. So I need to know, when going turbo, what can you by used, and what should you buy new?
I do have one request, please don't tell me to wait and go big. I don't want to go big yet. I want to stay small. Less expensive, and reliable is what I need right now. Once I've got myself happy there, I can work on going big. Also, I want to stay small so I can learn all about what I'm doing. I won't want to get lost in a sea of parts that I have no idea where it's going. I want to learn, and staying small right now is gonna be the best.
Pardon my spelling errors and vocabulary mistakes. I'm exhausted.
Sunfiretun3r wrote:Pardon my spelling errors and vocabulary mistakes. I'm exhausted.
i really don't know much of this turbo stuff but why not a saab 93 2003 turbo kit
So, guys, how do I complete this small goal? Turbo manifold obviously. Can i use the factory intake? Or do i need one a metal one?
You will need to fab up your own, metal or cut the stock one doesn’t matter what you pick, but custom overall
Do I need an intercooler?
No..
Would it be better to have an intercooler?
Yes it would
I'm sure it would be, but for the purpose of low boost, would it be required?
Not required at all by any means
How about injectors? Can I use the factory injectors?
Stock injectors should be ok but might as well upgrade because it is just so easy to do and cheap
What kind of tuning would I be looking at? Would I even need a tune to run a low boost?
A tune is a MUST, low boost or not, MUST TUNE. Get HP tuners or find someone who can help!
Now I would like to add, I'm very much in favor of used parts, and cheaper item, HOWEVER, I will not sacrifice quality for price, so I will pay for to know I'm getting a good, high quality part. So I need to know, when going turbo, what can you by used, and what should you buy new?
Hmm, consult others on this topic, used is used usual means no warranty and you rarely know the parts history.
To the OP, if your power goal is really only ~175whp, you will NOT be disappointed with an M62 set up on a stock pulley. In addition to the standard kit contents, a simple pacesetter header/2.5" exhaust set up and basic heat exchanger will get you a great daily driver powerband and "OEM reliability". Also, as mentioned, the saab set up would be a similar deal. There's actually one for sale in the northeast classifieds right now, way cheap.
To add to that, bigger injectors are a must. Stock injectors are undersized for moderate n/a builds, and have no headroom for boost. At least cobalt ss/sc 36 lb/hr injectors are needed. A tune is required. Even if you power goals are modest, you want your DD to be reliable don't you? You want to drive it comfortably and not deal with constant issues from being untuned.
As far as new or used, that's your call. I bought my whole M62 kit w/ heat exchanger for 1600. I'm not looking back
pretty much just hitting on the same topics as they did.
minimum id go bigger injectors, and exhaust.
You COULD get away with stock exhaust for the 3-4psi setup but at the same time you will have to modify it regardless for the downpipe. But to me sounds like a saab setup will be right up your alley. I think smoosh or his friend is selling a almost full setup in the mid east region... That would be good for you.
I would do an intercooler regardless... but thats just me.
Tune is a must, regardless if its 1psi or 20psi, tune tune tune...
Yeah smoosh is the one selling the saab kit. I want it, but I still don't have $600, yet, but I'm almost there. Just hoping he'll still have it when I get the cash.
My current exhaust is a 2.25. high flow cat is 2.25, but factory header. I would change the header and down pipe, but is that too small for saab turbo? What affect does the exhaust size have on the turbo besides just more flow? Would smaller size make the turbo spool faster? Or would it restrict it?
So smoosh's got the saab turbo, the turbo manifold, and injectors. I would have to have an intake fabbed up for that, pipeing, and if I wanted a small intercooler. I'd also need some type of boost controller right? Or is the saab turbo limited?
And can someone explain what a waste gate is and what it does? Does it have anything to do with the blow off valve?
And the blow off valve is when you shift, it releases the pressurized air, right?
Thanks for the replies guys, and teaching me what ya'll know.
You'd be fine with the factory intake manifold...the stock plastic mani will easily handle your goals, and you could always swap to the le5 mani if you want something a bit better flowing thank stock. The Saab intake mani is also an option. No need to go to a metal log style til you get into a bigger build.
The wastage is basically just a valve that regulates the maximum boost level that the turbocharger will see. Say you have a 6 psi spring in the wastegate- once you've hit 6 psi, the wastegate's valve opens and diverts the exhaust gas away from the turbine wheel and exits the housing...this stops the turbo from building any more boost than what is desired.
There are external and internal wastegates ( the Saab turbo, for example, is internally wastegated). The main benefit of an external wastegate is they are much more precise in regulating high boost levels, but in your case where you aren't going for big power, an internal setup will work great for you.
If you're set on turbo, I would definitely go with the Saab setup, as it will be 90% bolt on and give you the power band you're looking for. And as Oldskool said, an m62 setup makes for a great DD as well.
If you go with Smooshy's setup, you can keep the stock intake mani ( though I would recommend replacing the stock airbox with something less restrictive), use the saab turbo mani, and you would just need to have a downpipe fabled up to mate it into your existing system. As far as I know, you will not need a boost controller, as the Saab is internally gated and will see a specific amount of boost (6-8 psi I think??)...boost controllers (someone correct me if I'm wrong) basically just fool the wastegate so you can push more boost than what the wastage is set for, which would be unneeded in your case.
^ correct. sounds like the saab setup will be perfect for you... def. will need injectors and a tune. stock intake mani will work just fine for what you are doing. I still have my piping that ran from the hole next to the battery to the stock location TB with a tial blow off valve flange on it when the time comes if you want. its 2.25" piping.
and yes, wastegate is basically a diverter, takes the velocity away from having the exhaust pass through the turbine. it diverts it around the turbo not to exceed the desired psi. problem with internal gate is that you can out flow it and then you get boost creep because the wastegate can only flow so much CFM, thats why they make 38mm, 42mm, and 44mm wastegates, or the reason people go with 2 wastegates, you have to be able to bleed that pressure off.
The bov, releases the pressure the turbo is making once the throttle body slams closed. Once closed if you dont have a bov, it goes back out the turbo.
So, with the saab turbo, I can keep my stock mani, slap the turbo manifold on, slap the turbo on, have a down pipe made. Then route some simple piping to my throttle body, with a blow off valve somewhere between the two, put a filter on the turbo, put in the injectors, find someone to hpt it, then I'm golden for just about 6 psi. Just a simple easy build. That sounds exactly like what I'd like to start with.
So the factory eco head and block can handle this then I take it? I know about the small ring land, so at 100k on my block, I won't be pushing it too much? I have no motor problems, and haven't had any motor problems with this car, so I don't expect to.
What about oil for the turbo. How does that work? How do you get oil pressure to the turbo?
If you don't mind, I read through the sticky with a list of parts that everybody asks about, but I just don't see me needing all of that stuff, so I'd like to ask if you guys would help me finish this list so I can start gathering up small pieces every week until i can grab smoosh's turbo.
Saab Turbo
Turbo Manifold
Have a down pipe made
Smoosh's injectors
Piping kit (2.25"?)
Better air filter than what I have
BOV (Any brands in particular? Maybe less expensive, but still good quality?)
HPT Tune
Oil lines for the turbo (braided stainless?)
And I'm not against going with an M62 at all, but I'm just really feeling a turbo right now. I think I'll be happier with the turbo for now.
the stock motor is more tha capable of 10 psi or less boost. some are running more.
for turbo oil feed you can use the cylinder head oil galley plug on the back of the head like many others have done or you can do what i did and drill and tap the oil filter housing with a 1/8 npt tap and screw in a 1/8npt to -4 an fitting and use a 0.060" restrictor plate at the turbo. use -4 braided stainless oil feed line.
oil drain requires the oil pan to be removed to drill and tap or weld a fitting to the very top portion of the pan above the oil drain plug. some people use -10 fittings and line but i used -8 fittings and line with no drain issues.
Well 10 psi out of a 76mm turbo might not hold, out of a saab it should be fine.
Anyways shouldn't he look into a step or two colder spark plugs too?
had a blown ecotec swapped 2000 cavy, now just an 02 Grand Am, and a 74 BMW 2002...
based upon what im reading....since you really arent wanting to make that much power i would go M62 over turbo setup personally
RIP JESSE GERARD.....Youll always be in my thoughts and prayers...
I'm with the others on just going the m62 route......simple no drilling just a little grinding for lsj pulley tensioner clearance and bolt the rest on. Plus down the road you can drop a pulley size and you'll be happy. I dd mine year round and really enjoy it.
Well, I made a deal with smoosh for his turbo, so I'm going that route. I just want to go turbo.
As for the oil lines and size of the fittings, I feel like I'm looking at rocket science. Is there any pages out there or something that could explain the sizes? I feel like crossing my eyes and going to bed after looking at those numbers. I'm very confused.
And once again I'd like to thank you all for the help.
JOE L wrote:oil drain requires the oil pan to be removed to drill and tap or weld a fitting to the very top portion of the pan above the oil drain plug. some people use -10 fittings and line but i used -8 fittings and line with no drain issues.
Don't bother tapping the pan. Much easier way is to tap the girdle directly above the pan. The is a flat spot in the casting of the plug (where the drain tap would be on the Saab lk9). It's a little bit of a chore to get a drill lined up there while the motor is in the car, but it's easily doable. Tapping the block there will be much more reliable than tapping the pan.
Sunfiretun3r wrote:Well, I made a deal with smoosh for his turbo, so I'm going that route. I just want to go turbo.
As for the oil lines and size of the fittings, I feel like I'm looking at rocket science. Is there any pages out there or something that could explain the sizes? I feel like crossing my eyes and going to bed after looking at those numbers. I'm very confused.
And once again I'd like to thank you all for the help.
well it ( from what i read ) depends on the specs of said turbo.......but like i said from the begining if you really not wanting to make that much power M62 would be a really easier install and less headaches than a turbo setup.
but its not my choice obviously so enjoy the build
RIP JESSE GERARD.....Youll always be in my thoughts and prayers...
