first day at the dyno - Boost Forum

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first day at the dyno
Tuesday, May 01, 2007 12:26 PM
Well after putting the rsm stage 1 kit on a couple weeks ago and tunning it for the first time the following day here are the results.
3 pulls 1st pull 163.3 hp and 176 .5 torque @ 5100rpm " just a test run"
2nd 183.1 hp and 171 torque @ 6100rpm
3rd was 185 and 170.8 torque @ 6100

i was getting lean around the 5400 rpm running 14's from there all the way up to 6100 so i got aways to go before she's perfect
c and c welcome




Re: first day at the dyno
Tuesday, May 01, 2007 3:25 PM
14:1 AFR at around 5400 - 6100??? Sounds a bit lean to me. What fuel management are you running? What's the setup of parts included in the kit?
Re: first day at the dyno
Tuesday, May 01, 2007 5:53 PM
Joel Clear wrote:14:1 AFR at around 5400 - 6100??? Sounds a bit lean to me. What fuel management are you running? What's the setup of parts included in the kit?





Im using hpt but like i said it was the first time on the dyno so i gotta fix that soon







Re: first day at the dyno
Tuesday, May 01, 2007 6:28 PM
James Carter wrote:
Joel Clear wrote:14:1 AFR at around 5400 - 6100??? Sounds a bit lean to me. What fuel management are you running? What's the setup of parts included in the kit?





Im using hpt but like i said it was the first time on the dyno so i gotta fix that soon
\

No you have to fix that now... (not trying to sound like a ass) but anything above 12.5 and you WILL pop a ringland. I give it 2 weeks before you post up carnage pix from it running lean.



Re: first day at the dyno
Tuesday, May 01, 2007 10:39 PM
lean + boost = ouch


What do you have for fuel mods?

RSM setups are known for running lean..........




SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI - '78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap

Re: first day at the dyno
Wednesday, May 02, 2007 7:07 AM
Wrench Monkey wrote:
James Carter wrote:
Joel Clear wrote:14:1 AFR at around 5400 - 6100??? Sounds a bit lean to me. What fuel management are you running? What's the setup of parts included in the kit?





Im using hpt but like i said it was the first time on the dyno so i gotta fix that soon
\

No you have to fix that now... (not trying to sound like a ass) but anything above 12.5 and you WILL pop a ringland. I give it 2 weeks before you post up carnage pix from it running lean.



I meant soon as by the end of the week due to the fact its not my dd and when i do drive her i keep it below 4 grand.



Re: first day at the dyno
Wednesday, May 02, 2007 7:11 AM
SpeedRacerZ wrote:lean + boost = ouch


What do you have for fuel mods?

RSM setups are known for running lean..........



Im running rc 370cc and the blazer pump.



Re: first day at the dyno
Wednesday, May 02, 2007 2:33 PM
Wrench Monkey wrote:No you have to fix that now... (not trying to sound like a ass) but anything above 12.5 and you WILL pop a ringland. I give it 2 weeks before you post up carnage pix from it running lean.


Yeah.. what he said. Get'er tuned right or regret it.
Re: first day at the dyno
Wednesday, May 02, 2007 5:13 PM
I really doubt that a 200 HP motor is gonna det at 14.7 its not nearly enoguh HP.

as long as the timing is set, and your not logging nock youl be fine. I would still drop the AFR to let you run a stronger advacne and make use of that boost , but your not gonna blow your motor at this level.

by the way did you get a chance to look at the ecu that rsm sent you? Im wondering if it had any differences to it.


"Kick azz is my boost hero!!! "
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Re: first day at the dyno
Wednesday, May 02, 2007 7:30 PM
Then how did Luke Heier pop his motor with a 185 hp GM Supercharged 2.4?... Dont misinform!! Any superheated air going into the intake could cause preignition. it could be a 5hp briggs motor run it too lean and it will pop even N/A



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, May 02, 2007 7:32 PM


Re: first day at the dyno
Wednesday, May 02, 2007 7:32 PM
lol a 2.4 @ stock hp is a time bomb



LE61T PTE6262 Powered


Re: first day at the dyno
Wednesday, May 02, 2007 7:34 PM
Jcavi wrote:I really doubt that a 200 HP motor is gonna det at 14.7 its not nearly enoguh HP.


wow

what the hell are you thinking?




SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI - '78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap

Re: first day at the dyno
Wednesday, May 02, 2007 7:35 PM
QBE (The Boosted One) wrote:lol a 2.4 @ stock hp is a time bomb


Not for detonationg only those damn rod bearings LOL



Re: first day at the dyno
Wednesday, May 02, 2007 7:36 PM
QBE (The Boosted One) wrote:lol a 2.4 @ stock hp is a time bomb


anything with you behind the wheel is a time bomb!




SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI - '78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap

Re: first day at the dyno
Thursday, May 03, 2007 5:51 AM
Jcavi wrote:I really doubt that a 200 HP motor is gonna det at 14.7 its not nearly enoguh HP.

as long as the timing is set, and your not logging nock youl be fine. I would still drop the AFR to let you run a stronger advacne and make use of that boost , but your not gonna blow your motor at this level.

by the way did you get a chance to look at the ecu that rsm sent you? Im wondering if it had any differences to it.


^ didnt send them my ecu im tunning with hpt.



Re: first day at the dyno
Thursday, May 03, 2007 6:22 PM
SpeedRacerZ wrote:
Jcavi wrote:I really doubt that a 200 HP motor is gonna det at 14.7 its not nearly enoguh HP.


wow

what the hell are you thinking?



so then explain to me.

if his timing is already pretty gernerous to run the @!#$ty gas they excpet cav owners to run. and hes not showing preignition on any logs (are you btw? you never said) the why will he have problem at 200 hp?


"Kick azz is my boost hero!!! "
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Re: first day at the dyno
Friday, May 04, 2007 12:04 PM
14.7:1 at idle is fine, but under load thats way to lean, expecially under boost. GM's S/C kit for the 2.4 puts the a/f at about 11:1 (from what I have heard, I have not seen a Wide Band reading from a GM S/C J-body)

The Reflash alone for the GM S/C 'over clocks' (now sure what term to use, but this should make sence) the 310cc injectors in the kit, retards the timing, and sets the command a/f to 11.5:1. All that for a whoping 4 or 5 psi.

In any case, a good N/A tune should be at around 13.5:1 @ WOT, where a good boosted tune should be in the 12.0-12.5:1 @ WOT range.




SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI - '78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap

Re: first day at the dyno
Friday, May 04, 2007 5:44 PM
Jcavi wrote:
SpeedRacerZ wrote:
Jcavi wrote:I really doubt that a 200 HP motor is gonna det at 14.7 its not nearly enoguh HP.


wow

what the hell are you thinking?



so then explain to me.

if his timing is already pretty gernerous to run the @!#$ty gas they excpet cav owners to run. and hes not showing preignition on any logs (are you btw? you never said) the why will he have problem at 200 hp?

i hate to sound like an ass and get in here with this.
but pre ignition and detonation are 2 different things..
detonation (spark knock) is when the unburned molecules spontaneously combust after combustion has occured. cuaseing a pressure spike in the cylinder (which causes the pinging noise that a knock sensor detects)
preignition is when the the air fuel mixture is ignited from a source (hot-spots) before combustion happens.. this causes cyl. pressure to rise before the piston is compressing, causing every thing to heat up and ultimately failure.. usually a melted hole in a piston..you won't hear pre ignition, just see the smoke and the car stops

a motor can live through detonation most of the time hence the reason why when you tune with HPT you can see some knock without things being destroyed right then and there
if pre ignition does occur, your more than likely going to have a melted piston with a hole in it.

keeping a richer afr allows everything to stay cool, keeping those hot spots out of the way. also lean best power is still usually richer than 14:1 afrs

richen that baby up some and make some more power

SpeedRacerZ wrote:14.7:1 at idle is fine, but under load thats way to lean, expecially under boost. GM's S/C kit for the 2.4 puts the a/f at about 11:1 (from what I have heard, I have not seen a Wide Band reading from a GM S/C J-body)

The Reflash alone for the GM S/C 'over clocks' (now sure what term to use, but this should make sence) the 310cc injectors in the kit, retards the timing, and sets the command a/f to 11.5:1. All that for a whoping 4 or 5 psi.

In any case, a good N/A tune should be at around 13.5:1 @ WOT, where a good boosted tune should be in the 12.0-12.5:1 @ WOT range.

also Brian, many many people will say that 12:1 afr is still to lean for high boost applications.. hell a very very experienced tuner told me i was running a little lean at 12:1 on 4psi when i was first tuning my 2200


Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Friday, May 04, 2007 5:47 PM



Re: first day at the dyno
Friday, May 04, 2007 9:26 PM
SpeedRacerZ wrote:14.7:1 at idle is fine, but under load thats way to lean, expecially under boost. GM's S/C kit for the 2.4 puts the a/f at about 11:1 (from what I have heard, I have not seen a Wide Band reading from a GM S/C J-body)

The Reflash alone for the GM S/C 'over clocks' (now sure what term to use, but this should make sence) the 310cc injectors in the kit, retards the timing, and sets the command a/f to 11.5:1. All that for a whoping 4 or 5 psi.

In any case, a good N/A tune should be at around 13.5:1 @ WOT, where a good boosted tune should be in the 12.0-12.5:1 @ WOT range.


When I starting tuning mine, my wideband gave me readings anywhere from 11.9 - 14.1 BUT I have a smaller pulley so ionno....

Also, the reflash sets the commanded afr at 13.000 at operating temps, unless my car's retarded



2000 Camaro V6.
| SLP Loudmouth | CAI Intake | HID's |


Re: first day at the dyno
Saturday, May 05, 2007 4:32 PM
I should have said knock. you are correct. if im not mistaken knock is usually a precurser to preignition though right?


the fact still stands though. everyone will say till there blue in the face, that you must aboslutley drop your afr to 12:1 under boost. and then theyl leave it at that. I have yet to hear a reason why that a motor under load making a meessly 200 HP cant have an afr of 14.7

now yes I know that 12.1 is ideal beucause the extra gas helps make sure that everything gets burnt, and that it cools the motor. but if NA motors are burning at a 14.7.1 ratio and making the same amount of HP then why is it a SC motor with just about the same power curve and slightly more air cant due the same...... no really Im asking?


and dont threw the obligatory boost needs fuel remark in there becuase its played out. boost is nothing more then pusing air into an air pump theres no magical thrersh hold that changes how a motor works when positive pressure is applied (yes there are certaing things that change thank you.) however the main Idea stays the same

so, someone please enlightine me as to why this isnt true and, Im not name callig or calling anyone out, so if its possiable to keep it civil I would greatly apprciate it.


"Kick azz is my boost hero!!! "
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Re: first day at the dyno
Monday, May 07, 2007 10:52 AM
Taken from Stock GM 2.4 programs.

Quote:

'99 - PE Operating temp A/F command is 13.0:1, RPM multiplier keeps it under, or right at 13.0:1
'02 - PE Operating temp A/F command is 13.0:1, RPM multiplier keeps it under, or right at 13.0:1
'02 S/C - PE Operating temp A/F command is 13.0:1, RPM multiplier keeps it under, or right at 13.0:1

Now thats just the PE A/F Command, the VE tables also effect the A/F ratio, which they changed for the GM S/C reflash (and its not just from going from 100kpa to 200kpa).

But like I said before, I've only heard what others have seen while doing WOT pulls with a Wide Band on stock GM S/C equipped cars.

I have never seen one HPT log file that shows a WOT A/F of anything leaner then 13.5:1 on a stock engine/ecm. At idle, or partial throttle, yes. But never at WOT.

What I dont get, is why you insist that the HP level of the engine solely depicts what the A/F ratio needs to be?

Yes, a leaner A/F mixture will produce more HP, but leaner = more heat, more heat = metal fatigue and uncontrolled ignition, and we all know were that goes.


SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI - '78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap


Re: first day at the dyno
Monday, May 07, 2007 7:07 PM
Im insisting on HP being a factor because it is.

hes not mentioning boost levels so I have to base it stricktly on HP. now assuming that he is using a stock ignition tune, and running on a higer octane pump gas. its pretty safe to say theat hes with in operational limits at 14.7:1

if he were pusing it with a smaller pulley, and running a hotter burn with a more agressive timing advance, he would not be safe at 14.7 to 1

but hes not. hes making very low HP and barely pusing the motor, and I would put my name on it that his EGT's are with in SC spec..... so I say one last time yes he should be at 12 flat to optimize the setup. but if he wants to he can stay were hes at and probably get away with it.

however I could be wrong.


"Kick azz is my boost hero!!! "
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