Nice job looks great man!
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Did you tack everything so you can pull all of the tubes apart to weld them fully? I like the design, your welds don't look to be penetrating enough though. Hope it works out
12.770 @ 111.99 Intercooled Eaton M62
are you using a split scroll housing turbo as well? looks pretty good!
Yeah, every thing is just tacked with a 110 mig, this is why some of the tacks look a little cold. I will pull them all off the flange and weld it up with a tig. A couple look lumpy because there were some small gaps, so I filld them with several tack welds. If you know tig welding, it can be very painful when there are gaps. Once the tack welds are grinded down and I finish weld with the tig every thing will have proper penetration and look Precision. Yes, it is designed for a twin scroll turbine housing. Each runner is equal length to a 1/16” all designed on ProE. The runners are tuned to the turbine by placing them in their current location. This oscillates the pressure pulses down each side of the turbine housing in relation to the firing order of the engine. Having this design will improve responsiveness and increase efficiency by an order of magnitude.
looks good man, i need your cell #, awhile back i lost my phone and all my #'s i still have your tranny.... sorry.... kinda crazy i was just talking about you last night, one of my neighbors moved here from peoria, he has a turbo 200ser its yellowish orange, his name is chris, he knew of your hatch
R.I.P. Brian Klocke, you will never be forgotten
next
time
post
pics
like
this
please
but all n all, turbo header looks awesome, thats one wicked lookin flange as well!!
z yaaaa wrote:next
time
post
pics
like
this
please
but all n all, turbo header looks awesome, thats one wicked lookin flange as well!!
What resolution do you run 640x480?
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i run 1440x900 and even then my screen was stretched like a mofo
I like the flange! Where can i get one?
- 97 Z24 Racecar work in progress
- 04 WRX STi
ATR Crew Member
It looks like you spent alot of time and it looks great but I'd be a little concerned with the lack of collector on the end. It doesn't seem like the exhaust will be oriented in best direction to optimize the torque on the tubine. I'm sure you need to keep it short for the mounting design your going for but try to look into increasing the collector length if it will fit and it will help you out alot. It looks great tho, nice work, like to see a picture of it finished up.
Atomic,
The manifold flange is a one off design that I had made, in which my good friend and incredible design engineer revised.
Joshua
Thank you for the compliments,
Stringent design criteria, and in reading your reply I acknowledge that you mentioned that. But,
The manifold would of had to take up more room had I made the collector larger, then I would run out of room for the wastegate in order to place it as efficiently as possible in the provided space. There are specific boundaries in which could not be exceeded, due to lack of room, wastegate, down pipe, fire wall, water pump, cam tower, hood and on and on. All this was taken into consideration when designing, in order to fit in the stock location with out sever modification. When designing the manifold to fit on the system such as this you are limited. Sure, there is always the perfect world concept with no limits and that would be nice, but here there are limitations in space and orientation.
The manifold was designed to optimize flow throughout, by tuning it such that the pressure pulses from the exhaust energy would oscillate down each side of the manifold and turbine housing. Provided a divided turbine housing and manifold as such, there will be no cross talk between each side during pressure pulses due to the fact they will be on opposite sides during pressure pulse over lap in relation to the firing order of the engine and cam lobe profile. This keeps rapid speed fluctuations and shaft thrust of the turbine to a minimum in maintaining a more consistent speed, while enhancing the acceleration of the turbine when called upon. Anyways the exhaust gas is always going to have to change direction, and the exhaust gas changes direction in the turbine housing as well. This is for the most part the collector of the system, where the exhaust gas velocity is increased to act as torque upon the turbine wheel.
The runners all discharge fluidly into the housing and that is what was desired. This is why equal length, tuned manifolds are far superior to a log style manifold. Yes the runners are not completely linear to the turbine housing, but the turbine housing is not linear to the discharge on the turbine wheel. The direction of flow has to change at some time. The torque gets applied to the turbine wheel by the design in the turbine housing. This is where and why achieving the proper A/R ratio is more critical to the performance of the system.
Collector design will have more of an impact in a naturally aspirated application where achieving maximum scavenging will increase performance, but that gets us into a whole another subject involving the combustion chamber and residuals. Turbos are always going to impact back pressure on the engine. But, if you can make up for it in design of the system and mapping the proper compressor and turbine to the system the impact of back pressure will end up being negligible.
Thank you for the compliments.
Right on, I figured the location was the cause. Yeah, the gases will become more linear inside the turbo housing but a straight collector exit is very important. I've calculated and modeled many manifolds in my turbo machinery classes and the best impact on turbo efficiency came from long collectors to straighten out gasses prior to entering the housing. In extreme cases(which yours isn't) you can actually run out the bearings of larger turbos from the oscillating torsional forces. When you come into the housing at drastic angles the air doen't strighten out very quickly at all. You can change its relative direction easily but not without creating a swirling vortex motion which can continue all the way through the turbo. When the air swirls it changes how it applies force to the tubine and can drastically reduce the amount of force it allpies to the face of the turbine vanes like its designed to have. The turbine is designed to absorb the resistance force the air gives off when changing its direction, when you provide turbulent air some volume of the air entering the turbo is already aligned with the direction that the turbine is trying to direct the gasses. That means that volume of air that falls into that category applies no torque to the turbine which means it doesn't contribute to turning the turbine. Turbos are all designed the same way in this manner, they are desinged assuming straight linear flow into the housing for optimum performance.
Yes, I agree your manifold will definetly perform better than logs and it looks really good but if you've even got 0.5" of space take it and put it in the collector.
You provide a very good point and I do agree with you. I enjoy the technical discussions. However, there have been several revisements to the manifold in the past year and I need to start on other parts of the project to finish it this year (haven't even touched the engine yet). Also, I have already invested a lot of money in stainless steel (and it is not cheep) and I am completely out of the bends. I would have to change the layout quite a bit. I know where point A and B (the flanges) are and they cannot move, so the pipes would have to move and that would be a lot more design work. And, after seeing how this thing snaps into place like legos, I am completely satisfied. You do provide very good information, and shall I come across another project with more room, I will remember this conversation.
I like how you worked the head and turbine flanges into a single unit to form a support.... very clever... However, I'd be concerned about how much material has been removed from the head flange and how much the support section will collect heat as it could cause uneven heating/cooling and result in warping. All in all though, its a good start, but be sure to get some really good welds on that baby or else you're gonna have problems.
Oh, and as to the collector discussion...... I'd say that this is still straighter flow to the turbine than the LOG manifolds that most everyone else is using
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
Scarab (Jersey Jay 1.8T) wrote:Oh, and as to the collector discussion...... I'd say that this is still straighter flow to the turbine than the LOG manifolds that most everyone else is using
^Absolutely.....no question....much better performance.
