I also posted this in maintenance, wasnt sure where to put it.
The other night, i got on it, hit boost. the car began to sputter. pulled the plugs. #4 was collapsed to were both the side and center electrodes were touching. no gap. we then gapped the plug and car ran fine for maybe 1/2 mile, then began to sputter again, plug remained gapped. what could have caused this plug to fail?
replacing the plug(s) is obvious... will this new plug suffer the same fate?
In all reality, the only way for the electrode to collapse is for the piston to come up too far. why would this be?
ive been reading around, and it sounds to be the ringland? all the other cases i read about were with 03 ecos, ive got an LD9.
any suggestions?
Portage, MI
kinda sounds like it time for a motor , usually when that happens something hit the spark plug
which ends up being part of the piston bouncing around
why would the piston be jumping around?
and how is it so, that the piston can come up higher than normal?
Portage, MI
he said part of the piston, not the whole piston, or hopefully not.... but....if a peice of the piston broke and is bouncing in the space between the piston and the head/vavles/sparkplugs that is bad....
time to build the motor
good luck, hopefully its just a weird spark plug...
|Forged 8.9:1 Wiseco Pistons|Forged Eagle Rods|HPTuners|60trim|Tial Wastegate|
|Precision Intercooler|2.5" Exhaust|2.5" Charge Pipes|630CC Mototron Injectors|
|Stock: Fuel Pump, Transmission, Manifold, TB, Head, Head Gasket, Ignition, Suspension...|
Your motor is broken if you couldn't get that from Eric's post.
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
sometimes when pistons get to their melting point they will stretch and hit
but 9 outta 10 , its a piece that broke off and is bounging around
worste part is half the time that piece goes back out the intake and through the intake into another cylinder
pretty much there is 3 parts that can hit the spark plug in the combustion chamber , piston , intake valves , exhaust valves , more often its the piston or part of that hits the plug , some times its a bearing that goes out or rod stretch , but those usually bend valves before they hit a plug in our case , since the plug is higher up in the chamber
which leave a part of the piston breaking off , from detonation and bouncing around and hitting the plug
happens from the ring being close to the top of the piston and being cast pistons
That sucks man, build it up.
What boost psi are you seeing?
yes ring land probably came apart or if you pull the plug see if you can get some light down there you can probably see the piston top all beat up....
is this a 02+ ecotec motor? what plugs where you using and what air/fuel on what boost level?
Thanks guys, I've been pretty down the past few days about it.
Im not sure what i'll be doing.
currently im seeing only about 5lbs of boost.
Guess i have alot of reading i need to get done, to better understand the internals, and how they work.
Portage, MI
you can get a stock 2.2L for about 850.00 or 950.00 drop shipped used...not that big of a deal if you want a motor fast! cheaper if you pull the motor!
Go hone the block and get forged pistons and rods and get pistons with a lower ring land made for boost diamon pistons have a stock compression motor but with lower ring lands great for boost!
also a buddy of mine said this---> "the NGK plugs i just pulled are shorter, may be a solution for him in the meantime"
Speed Mafia wrote:you can get a stock 2.2L for about 850.00 or 950.00 ....
im rocking the LD9, not sure if you read that above or not.
Portage, MI
Speed Mafia wrote:also a buddy of mine said this---> "the NGK plugs i just pulled are shorter, may be a solution for him in the meantime"
If he's refering to the using the NGK 4177 in an Ecotec then I hope he NEVER gives advice to anyone ever. We've already proven those plugs to be too short for the head, and shorter is not better. Plugs are sized for a reason.
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
Speed Mafia wrote:you can get a stock 2.2L for about 850.00 or 950.00 drop shipped used...not that big of a deal if you want a motor fast! cheaper if you pull the motor!
He has a 2.4.
Sorry to hear that, hopefully it's something minor.
15.3 @ 89.97mph, 14's on the way?
I did replace all 4 plugs. The car seems to run ok, however it still isnt right.
The plugs are gapped to 40 degrees.
I drove it around the block, let it warm up, got on it, hit boost, it dosent seem like im loosing power like before.
I havent pulled the plugs again yet, to see if there is any damage, ill do that tomorrow, and also get a light and see if i can see the pistons/damage to them.
When the car is on, i hear a slight tick. Im assuming its that "piece floating around" which still isnt good.
Portage, MI
best thing to do is a leak down test or compression test....
I'll do that tommorrow, and let you know whats going on.
Portage, MI
youll prob have to have that piston at bottom dead center to see the top of it around the edges , 1 of those super bright led flash lights would prob help
a bore scope is nice but alotta dam $$$$
do a compression and leak down , if it hast smashed a plug yet it might have gone out the cyliner , or its on top of a valve bouncing around , or wedged some where
my freinds eco still seamed to run ok but made odd noises , and would run funny every once and a while
my personal thoughts the injectors that come with the s.c are a bit to small , mine ran low 13's for afr , and i was scared of it , but had a back up motor just incase it went pop , i switched to 36lb injectors and droped the main fuel pressure to 30 psi , and went from low 13's to mid 11's and picked up over 1/2 sec in the 1/4 , which means the motor wanted the fuel , and prob helped kill the spark knock that was pulling more timing out
[quote=97trd(???™)]........my personal thoughts the injectors that come with the s.c are a bit to small , mine ran low 13's for afr , and i was scared of it , but had a back up motor just incase it went pop , i switched to 36lb injectors and droped the main fuel pressure to 30 psi , and went from low 13's to mid 11's and picked up over 1/2 sec in the 1/4 , which means the motor wanted the fuel , and prob helped kill the spark knock that was pulling more timing out
thinking my motor wants more fuel makes me laugh. you should see the BLACK ASS PUFF of smoke that comes out when i get on it...but its entirely possible.
guess i should start calling yards to look for a new motor.
Portage, MI
do you have a wide band o2 ? if so whats your afr ?
also might just have a tip in rich problem , since you have a 99 , which is the transistion from vacuum to boost
if that is the case some hp tuners tuning would fix that
HP tuners will fix broken pistons, and rebuild your engine for you. Just ask the guy above me!
that wasnt how that was meant , i was refering to adjusting the pcm to prevent it from happning again
lol
|Forged 8.9:1 Wiseco Pistons|Forged Eagle Rods|HPTuners|60trim|Tial Wastegate|
|Precision Intercooler|2.5" Exhaust|2.5" Charge Pipes|630CC Mototron Injectors|
|Stock: Fuel Pump, Transmission, Manifold, TB, Head, Head Gasket, Ignition, Suspension...|
Like i put in you other post your piston prolly looks like this
http://forums.thevboard.com/viewtopic.php?t=84520
detonation is a bitch atleast in my car it is and most of the time your motor is not toasted unless you keep running it for awhile but if it happens and you shut it off it prooly wont do much damage i know in my car it didnt.
2003 SE-R SPEC V
Custom turbo kit with a t66 turbo @ 15psi, Apexi safc2, custom side exit exhuast, JWT cams, JWT bsr, inovate wideband system, CP 8:5/1 pistons, carrillo rods, comp clutch stage 4, hks catch can, 10k hids. And more to come
